HERMS questions

[GRHunter]

I am looking to get away from batch sparging and I think I have settled on going with a HERMS system. But I have a couple of questions on their use. First, how do you know when your conversion is finished? I am guessing a combination of timing and an iodine test. Second, how do you manage\control the flow of wort? Again I am guessing that the pump has a variable speed, but I was wondering how you can tell what the proper flow rate would be.

 

[Walker]

I do HERMS, but I also still batch sparge because I didn't want a 2-tier system and I didn't want two pumps.

AT any rate, the flow is controlled by having a ball valve at the output of the pump that you can open to get the flow you want.

COnversion... do what you always did! If you checked with iodine, keep doing that. I just wait for an hour, which it what I always did before when I mashed without recirculation.

Flow: I try to get a flow through the pump that roughly matches the flow I would get if I was gravity draining. I am paranoid about getting the mash compacted and stuck by letting the pump run wide open, but some people run them wide with no issues.

You'll have to play around with your system to see what works for you for flow.

 

[GRHunter]

I do HERMS, but I also still batch sparge because I didn't want a 2-tier system and I didn't want two pumps.

Boy, I think I'm about to tip off just how dumb I really am, but I don't understand. Are you doing a combination of recirculating and sparging? I am also confused as to why you would need a second pump, or a need for gravity feed for a HERMS system. Or does this second pump\gravity feed apply to moving the wort to the brew kettle?

 

[Walker]

HERMS is a means of maintaining your mash temp. Period. It has nothing to do with how you sparge.

I get my mash started, and then recirculate the mash for an hour. When it's done, I pump the wort to my kettle. Then I batch sparge, recirculate that a little, and finally pump THAT to my kettle.

So, still batch sparging, but I recirculate my mash to maintain proper temp.

You *can* do no sparge brewing, which is perhaps what you meant? In that style, you put all of your water in the mash and recirculate all of it until the mash is done, and then you pump it all to the kettle.

Or, you can fly sparge, too. It's that FLY sparging that requires two tiers or two pumps because you need to simultaneously moving water from HLT to MLT as well as MLT to BK.

Did you mean you wanted to switch to no-sparge?

 

[GRHunter]

Did you mean you wanted to switch to no-sparge?

I was under the (incorrect) impression that a HERMS was a no-sparge tecnique. I thought that the re-heated wort got continuously filtered through the grain. Therefore, I just assumed that a sparge of any type was not going to be necessary.

So to answer your question yes, I am looking to switch to a no-sparge system. Sparging adds over half an hour to my brew day and few extra steps, all of which I would like to eliminate. I use a 10 gallon round Igloo cooler which does an excellent job of maintaining my temperatures. Being as I have no plans at this point to do any step infusions my main interest in a HERMS is to save time and work.

 

[Walker]

I was under the (incorrect) impression that a HERMS was a no-sparge tecnique. I thought that the re-heated wort got continuously filtered through the grain. Therefore, I just assumed that a sparge of any type was not going to be necessary.

So to answer your question yes, I am looking to switch to a no-sparge system. Sparging adds over half an hour to my brew day and few extra steps, all of which I would like to eliminate. I use a 10 gallon round Igloo cooler which does an excellent job of maintaining my temperatures. Being as I have no plans at this point to do any step infusions my main interest in a HERMS is to save time and work.

Ok. You can certainly do HERMS and no-sparge, but I'd be a little worried about the size of your cooler MLT.

Most of my batches of beer use around 11 lbs of grain. A batch like that will use about 33 quarts of water.

33 quarts of water and 11 lbs of grain would NOT fit into my 10 gallon cooler.

Plus, no-sparge (I think) results in a loss of efficiency, so I would actually have to upscale my 11 pound recipe to some thing more, thus needing MORE water and MORE space in the MLT.

I'm not saying you can't do it, but you might need a bigger mash tun.

 

[Walker]

Oh..... and I wanted to comment on the time aspect.

You said sparging adds time to your brew day, which I can understand, but be aware that with no-sparge you will spend more time heating up your water at the start because you will need to heat it all up at once instead of being able to overlap sparge heat-up with the ongoing mash.

 

[jwright]

Sorry for a quick but on-topic hijack.....

Walker,

After you pump your first runnings (which I assume are clear from the recirc), you add the batch sparge volume to the MT.

Could you elaborate a bit on the next steps.

I imagine you then stir the mash again to mix.
Do you then do some sort of manual vorlauf before attaching the pump to recirculate, or just attach the pump and recirculate?

I guess I am just wondering if the pumps can handle the grainy, uncleared wort.

I like the idea of using the pump to recirculate the batch sparge - sort of a super rinse.

thanks,
jason

 

[GRHunter]

Ok. You can certainly do HERMS and no-sparge, but I'd be a little worried about the size of your cooler MLT.

Most of my batches of beer use around 11 lbs of grain. A batch like that will use about 33 quarts of water.

33 quarts of water and 11 lbs of grain would NOT fit into my 10 gallon cooler.

Plus, no-sparge (I think) results in a loss of efficiency, so I would actually have to upscale my 11 pound recipe to some thing more, thus needing MORE water and MORE space in the MLT.

I'm not saying you can't do it, but you might need a bigger mash tun.

I wouldn't use my current equipment, I would definitely upgrade it.

 

[GRHunter]

Oh..... and I wanted to comment on the time aspect.

You said sparging adds time to your brew day, which I can understand, but be aware that with no-sparge you will spend more time heating up your water at the start because you will need to heat it all up at once instead of being able to overlap sparge heat-up with the ongoing mash.

I understand the increased water volume to heat, that's not a problem. But I normally do 2 sparges, each with a 10 minute rest time. And each sparge requires vorlauffing which is a PITA. In case you can't tell. I am campaigning for the laziest brewer in the world title.

 

[Walker]

Jwrite; I add the water, stir, and then just start pumping. I do that until it clears up (10 min?).

Maybe I *should* be doing a manual vorlauf, but I'm not.

GRHunter: I would try no-spage if had a tun that could handle it. I might try a small beer that way...