Here goes the first batch(es)...

[thewyatt]

First, this site is amazing. I have read so much then so much more... and yet even more. But I am falling short on some clarifications.

Here is what I purchased:

3) gallon glass jugs of cider from Whole Foods (organic)
2) extra glass gallon jugs for 'racking'
3) rubber stopers and 'locks'
1) Knottingham yeast
1) Champagne yeast
1) S04 yeast

Objective: To make 3 batches of cider with the only variable being the 3 different yeasts to see what my wife and I prefer.

My questions:

I have read the process several times here and understand things in theory. Some clarification on a couple topics would be great.

1) What is racking? (besides filtering off the active yeast) A more dumbed down explanation would be great and the best ways to do it. I am looking for the best way to stop the fermentation process of the yeast so I can bottle and not have them not explode.

2) 'cold crash'. Can this be described in detail as well. I get the fact you need to cool the product down. I guess tell me like I am a child.

3) I am looking for a semi sweet, nice kick(alcohol wise), non vinegar or wine, cider. I want to be able to drink lots and not feel like I am drinking sugar water.

4) "Rehydrating yeast" - Is that as easy as just adding some water, mixing, then dump in the jugs and activate?

Lastly, adding secondary flavors. When should this be done and how much of a flavor should one start with for gallon brews? I can then narrow or add on later batches to fine tune. Also, I am not concerned that this be 'true' cider. I just want a great tasting brew and is inexpensive to make and get a good result for my first batch and build some confidence. I will be using Grolsch bottles with the reusable flip tops. I hope I have given enough info.

All the knowledge and help is super appreciated. Thank you all for all the posts I have read today. My eyes are bleeding. At least this site prompted me to get up and go to a brewing store and get the process going.

Thanks again and look forward to your ideas...

 

[Daze]

1) What is racking? (besides filtering off the active yeast) A more dumbed down explanation would be great and the best ways to do it. I am looking for the best way to stop the fermentation process of the yeast so I can bottle and not have them not explode.

racking is simply syphoning the fermented liquid from one container in to another making sure to leave as much sediment in the first container.

2) 'cold crash'. Can this be described in detail as well. I get the fact you need to cool the product down. I guess tell me like I am a child.

cool the cider down to around freezing so that the yeast fall out of suspension then rack off the clear liquid. it will need to be done more than once.

3) I am looking for a semi sweet, nice kick(alcohol wise), non vinegar or wine, cider. I want to be able to drink lots and not feel like I am drinking sugar water.

OK and your question is??

4) "Rehydrating yeast" - Is that as easy as just adding some water, mixing, then dump in the jugs and activate?

making a starter means adding the dry yeast to some warm but not hot water with a little sugar in it or in a small sample of the cider you will be fermenting.

 

[Tw0fish]

This is how I'd explain it over a beer (so, you owe me a beer )


1) Racking - during fermentation, things settle out. That includes dead yeast, maybe hops if you're making a beer, apple pectin if you're using an apple cider (thats right, fermenting apple cider should make it clear like juice - iddnat neat?) and dead yeast. If your ferment goes dry or you cold crash, the live yeast will be down there too. Yeast is delicious and nutritious, except for the delicious part.. so to leave all that sediment behind you don't just tip the jug into your secondary.. you slip a piece of tubing or a racking cane into it and siphon all the good stuff off the top without stirring up what's in the bottom. If you're just starting out or you're poor, a careful pour can get a lot of the juice off without pouring the trub (that's the bottom sediment) out, but you'll get more good product if you rack carefully.

2) to cold crash is to chill your product to somewhere near freezing. This will halt a fermentation and make the yeast flocculate (that is, settle to the bottom.) This is a temporary measure, as the yeast will start up again if the product is allowed to warm. The stickied thread at the top of this forum says that, if cold crashed and carefully racked, a cider made with Nottingham can be made to stop (I spose they're fat heavy yeast and so will be left behind if racked).

3) Excellent question, and lots of other people will chime in with their ideas on this one (including myself perhaps in another post!)

4) In wine, yes. In cider, use (room temperature) cider. You don't really have to make starters for cider, IMHO.. you can simply pitch 'er in the must (that's your product before fermentation but after adding ingredients) and give it a little swirl.

Secondary flavors can be in the primary or secondary, depending, and amounts to start with will depend on what you're putting in. I'm sure others will have much better knowledge than I about that

 

[Tw0fish]

With regards to 3: Notty and champagne yeasts will ferment out all the natural sugars in the cider to dead dry if you let them. If you don't want to go with a recipe (note the recipes tab up at the top of the page) I'd suggest buying a hydrometer and fooling around with 'buffing' the sugar content with brown sugar.. or honey.. or maple syrup.. then you can cold crash at your desired sweetness and %ABV!

 

[thewyatt]

To all. THANK YOU! Much more clear.

Its been a week. I pop'd the top as the bubbles have pretty much stopped. I dropped the hydrometer it slowly. For the most part, it just goes to the bottom. What am I doing wrong?

I tasted all three. I have a dry wine taste to all three. Could I have fermented all the sugars out already?

Here is my thoughts: I was thinking of racking tonight or tomorrow. Add in flavoring:http://www.naturesflavors.com/index.php/organic-green-apple-flavor-concentrate.html

and adding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol

What do you all think?

I am kinda shocked it tastes like wine so fast. I did start the fermenting out at 68 degrees F. Then moved them by the patio door (Live in Chicago) and it measured 61.8F. Then after a 5 days there I moved back up to the table around 68F.

Hope this helps everyone. Thanks again for all the fantastic help.

 

[thewyatt]

Thought I replied to this... so here goes the second update

First, thank you for all the clarificatoins and help. Glad you guys took my ignorance with a grain o' sugah.

I cracked open the bottle to take a reading and taste. All three had the hydrometer go to the bottom. They all tasty like wine w/ a hint of apple-ish flavor. I am thinking about racking them, adding some sweetner (xylitol - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol ) and green apple flavorings (from Natures Flavors website -http://www.naturesflavors.com/index.php/organic-green-apple-flavor-concentrate.html ).

Can this be done fermenting? Am I thinking proper in my process at this stage? Should I wait longer? Am I doing something wrong with the hydrometer and readings?

TIA

 

[thewyatt]

Alright had some issues with posting my update: Here goes for #3

Thank you everyone for your guidance. I have now tasted and yeild a apple wine flavor. Hyrometer goes to the bottom and touches. (That seems weird) What am I doing wrong? Should I rack and then take a reading? (gonna try that tonight) I was wanting ot add green apple flavoring and xylitol at some point prior to bottling.

Thoughts?

 

[jkoegel]

Add some more cider to your hydrometer tube if it touches the bottom. Your reading should be at or near 1.000. maybe .990 if you have a high alcohol content. Mine measured .995 after secondary fermentation. @ aprox. 9.5%.
Add the flavoring and xylitol right before bottling to taste. BEFORE adding your priming sugar. The sweetness from the priming sugar will be eaten up for carbonation once in the bottles at room temperature.
I used 1/8 cup corn sugar per gallon of corn sugar for priming after sweetening with about 3 1/2 TBSP xylitol per gallon.

 

[thewyatt]

jkoegel, awesome. I learned I need to pull some of the cider to a tube for dropping the hydrometer in. (sorry I am a n00b) I will do that when I get home.

I used corn sugar w/ yeast in the beginning. So should I rack, add more corn sugar... ferment some more for more bang for my buck? Then rack, add flavoring and xylitol, then add in corn sugar right before bottling?

To make sure i understand you: Take boiled water wiht xylitol. Add to cider. Add flavoring after that. Then add corn sugar (I am assuming boiled in water as well) to the pre bottling container then bottle right away.

That right?

 

[thewyatt]

I racked for secondary fermantation. Gonna wait another 21 days. Then sweeten and add some flavoring. Add the dextrose for carbonation and bottle on March 3rd 2012.

Stay tuned...

However, I still having an issue with the hydrometer going to the bottom of the tester tube. Right aroung 1.0 or less. (that is when it hits the bottom) Soudl I find a longer test tube? What do you all use?

Thoughts on this? Does this mean I have a strong brew? Should I bottle sooner?

 

[thewyatt]

UPdate here.

Just finished bottling. I have about 10-750ml Grolsch-type bottles sitting for carbonation to set in. I did use 3 different yeasts. All 3 came in at about 6.3%. The S04, Knottingham, and Champagne yeast. They all have definately distinct flavors. Cannot say I hate any of them. Just different which had me sweeten with Xylitol and added flavoring to taste. Now I added differently to each batch. I did add Dextrose to each seperate gallon for carbonation.

Thanks to all for the help and the many, many threads I read here and else where. The Hydrometer problem was definately user error. I didnt have a tube skinny and tall enough. Ended up using the tube the hydrometer came in after being cleaned and sterilized.

Next batch will be one yeast and then will try Brown sugar, apple concentrate, and dextrose sugars for adding the sweetener. See how that changes things.

Gotta wait a week or 2 but that is great. Looking forward to some good cider! All tastes real good. Cant imagine it chilled.

Thanks all!

 

[completelyuncorked]

your test vial should be as long or longer than your hydrometer, preferably longer, you should also have a device for pulling samples from your fermentor, the closer to 1.000-.990 you are means you are most likely done with the fermenting process. If you are getting supplies from a local home brew store then they should be able to help you with anything you need. I wish you luck with you endeavors as I am in the same or similar learning curve with this as you are. I sat through a beginners wine making class and that helped me immensely, if you can find one near you I would highly suggest taking it!