Help!

[commandercool]

Just in the middle of brewing my very first Festa brew kit. I'm just waiting for something to go wrong, but I've been following the instructions carefully. My foam collapsed the other day, but there are still some bubbles on top of the beer. I was curious as to what was going on so I took a Hydrometer reading. My Hydrometer read 1.016 on a Pale Ale. I tasted the sample and noticed the beer tasted slightly carbonated. Was wondering if this was normal? It's been sitting in primary for about four days. First day I have the lid snapped tight until I saw the lid about to blow off. So days 2,3 and 4 I just placed the lid on loosely. Wanting to know if I'm on the right track here. I'm probably going to move it to a secondary tonight, but was concerned about the bubbles as most pictures I've seen, there are no bubbles. Thanks in advance!

 

[twistr25]

Do not move to secondary yet!!!!

Yes that is normal, sounds like it is doing fine. Let it sit for another 6 days or so and take another reading. Do you not have an airlock?

 

[boydster]

Do not move to secondary yet!!!!

+1, and for a pale ale I would seriously consider not moving it to secondary at all. Leave it in the fermentor for 2 weeks, take a gravity reading. Wait 2 more days, take another gravity reading. If they are the same, package it. Keep it simple.

In truth, the beer should hit final gravity in 5-7 days if you had a healthy fermentation. We wait an extra few days to give the yeast time to reabsorb some of the other byproducts they create during fermentation and flocculate, leaving you with a better, cleaner beer. The light carbonation at this point is normal, and the beer will continue to off-gas excess CO2 even after fermentation is over due to temperature and air pressure changes. If you have an airlock, don't mistake an infrequent bubble for active fermentation - the hydrometer is your friend and it will let you know when the yeast is done feasting.

Edit: And if you don't have an airlock, get one!

 

[KepowOb]

As Twistr25 asks, do you not have an airlock?? You should really look into getting one if not, they're far from expensive.

Everything sounds normal. You're beer will always have some C02 in there once fermentation has started. Most of it works it's way out of the solution, but, there is always some still in there. The colder it is, the more there will be still in there.

I wouldn't move to a secondary at this point, or at all really. If you really want to move it to a secondary, then you can, but I'd wait a few more days at least. You want to make sure fermentation is done before moving it. As I had said though, I wouldn't even bother with one for a Pale Ale.

 

[commandercool]

No Airlock. I bought a kit from the local store and they gave me a fermenting pail with just a lid. They neglected to tell me not to put the lid on tight. Also, there is no airlock on the lid. They said they just put the lid on loosely and don't worry about an airlock. The secondary they gave me is a carboy with an airlock.

 

[commandercool]

Will the beer not continue to ferment in the secondary? Or should the Gravity reading be fairly close to FG before I consider moving it to the secondary?

 

[TheZymurgist]

OH NO!!!! YOU'VE MADE BEER!!!! J/K, couldn't help myself. Sounds like you're doing a good job, and are on the right track. I agree with the others and recommend skipping the secondary. Don't do anything until the gravity has remained constant for at least a few days. 1.016 sounds pretty decent. Some like their Pale Ales a little dryer, which will accentuate the bitterness, and try to get them to finish around 1.012 or so. Personally, I like mine a little sweeter and try to keep them above 1.015, but that's my personal taste.

 

[boydster]

Will the beer not continue to ferment in the secondary? Or should the Gravity reading be fairly close to FG before I consider moving it to the secondary?

it should be at the final gravity. transferring early could result in a stuck fermentation. Plus you want the beer on the yeast cake for a few days after fermentation to help allow it to clean up fermentation by products

 

[kaconga]

No Airlock. I bought a kit from the local store and they gave me a fermenting pail with just a lid. They neglected to tell me not to put the lid on tight. Also, there is no airlock on the lid. They said they just put the lid on loosely and don't worry about an airlock. The secondary they gave me is a carboy with an airlock.

You don't need an airlock just keep the pail covered with the lid. You can secondary if you want to but it is entirely unnecessary with this beer. Secondary is mainly for adding fruit, oak, or hops to the beer once its done fermenting. I would just bottle it up in a few days if the gravity reading stays constant.

 

[twistr25]

It will not really continue to ferment because you remove it from the majority of the yeast that are helping it to ferment now.

At worst it should be at FG before you move it. Any particular reason you are antsy to do that? It is not necessary.

 

[TheZymurgist]

No Airlock. I bought a kit from the local store and they gave me a fermenting pail with just a lid. They neglected to tell me not to put the lid on tight. Also, there is no airlock on the lid. They said they just put the lid on loosely and don't worry about an airlock. The secondary they gave me is a carboy with an airlock.

Find a different supply store. That's ridiculous advice. Airlocks are so cheap, there's no reason not to have one, and they greatly reduce the chance of getting an infection.

 

[TheZymurgist]

You don't need an airlock just keep the pail covered with the lid. You can secondary if you want to but it is entirely unnecessary with this beer. Secondary is mainly for adding fruit, oak, or hops to the beer once its done fermenting. I would just bottle it up in a few days if the gravity reading stays constant.

Why wouldn't you have an airlock, though? They're cheap, and decrease risk of infection. I see no reason to not have one.

 

[commandercool]

The only reason I'm antsy is because it is the first time I've ever brewed anything, so I'm a slave to instructions! I wanted to make sure I could handle something like a wort kit before I start changing things around! Will take advice under advisement though. So my question would be, would I add my priming sugar right to my fermenting pail when I'm ready to bottle? As per the festa brew instructions:

- Transfer to secondary for 7-10 days. After a couple of days of a constant reading, prepare corn dextrose and boiling water in the sanitized fermenter, transfer from secondary back to primary, give it a good mix and then proceed to bottling.

I'm willing to fore go these steps if it would provide me with a sexier beer. Just want to make sure I don't fudge anything up when bottling! Thanks for all the great advice.

 

[jan23778]

Let it finish it's fermentation in primary before moving it to secondary. This will mean that it will ferment next to nothing in secondary. I agree with earlier comments about not using a secondary as your little yeasty friends will start to clear up after themselves once they finish their fermenting jobs; they are great workers, let them do what they do best and leave it in primary for a couple of weeks in total (more if you have the patience).

I would suggest using the carboy for primary next time and only use the plastic one for fruit additions and such.

It sounds like it will be a great beer though. Good luck.

 

[TheZymurgist]

The only reason I'm antsy is because it is the first time I've ever brewed anything, so I'm a slave to instructions! I wanted to make sure I could handle something like a wort kit before I start changing things around! Will take advice under advisement though. So my question would be, would I add my priming sugar right to my fermenting pail when I'm ready to bottle? As per the festa brew instructions:

- Transfer to secondary for 7-10 days. After a couple of days of a constant reading, prepare corn dextrose and boiling water in the sanitized fermenter, transfer from secondary back to primary, give it a good mix and then proceed to bottling.

I'm willing to fore go these steps if it would provide me with a sexier beer. Just want to make sure I don't fudge anything up when bottling! Thanks for all the great advice.

Get a bottling bucket if you don't already have one. They have a spigot at the bottom with a bottling wand that will make it MUCH, MUCH easier.

Let it sit in the primary for a while, then when you're ready to bottle, boil the corn sugar in a small amount of water. Pour that into the bottling bucket, no need to cool, it's such a small volume of water that it will have no effect on the temperature of the entire batch. Make sure the spigot is closed, then transfer your beer from primary to the bottling bucket. From there, you will bottle.

Easy as pie!

 

[twistr25]

The only reason I'm antsy is because it is the first time I've ever brewed anything, so I'm a slave to instructions! I wanted to make sure I could handle something like a wort kit before I start changing things around! Will take advice under advisement though. So my question would be, would I add my priming sugar right to my fermenting pail when I'm ready to bottle? As per the festa brew instructions:

- Transfer to secondary for 7-10 days. After a couple of days of a constant reading, prepare corn dextrose and boiling water in the sanitized fermenter, transfer from secondary back to primary, give it a good mix and then proceed to bottling.

I'm willing to fore go these steps if it would provide me with a sexier beer. Just want to make sure I don't fudge anything up when bottling! Thanks for all the great advice.

I will tell you now and you will learn soon on your own, those are terrible directions.

Do you have a bucket with a spigot to bottle?

General instructions that almost never fail for a typical beer.
Brew and cool wort to low 70s or lower if possible, (mid 70s is best I can do right now and it seems to be ok)
Take an OG reading, pitch yeast
Store fermenter in a cool area, low to mid 60s for most beers. If you need help on this, look up swamp cooler.
Allow beer to ferment 10-14 days, take an FG reading, wait a couple days, take another. If they are the same ready to move on.
Move to secondary if necessary/desired. Typically only needs it for long term aging(>2-3 months), adding fruits or other concentrates. I add dry hops right to my primary bucket. Let sit 5-7 days depending on the addition.
Use calculator to determine priming sugar amount
Easiest to boil 2 cups water and stir in sugar, allow to cool to wort temp.
Add to bottling bucket and rack beer on top. Stir gently to ensure even distribution.
Bottle away!

I typically do 3-4 weeks from brew to bottle, then another 3 weeks to allow to condition and carb. It seems like a slow process and it is, but patience will be rewarded. Aa you get better equipment, some of these times can be shortened. Also shows the importance of getting a pipeline going.

 

[commandercool]

No bucket with spigot! I'll look into investing in one. I think I will go with the consensus here and keep the beer in the primary. I have a wine thief for bottling when the time comes.

So with this method, will I have to be more careful about sediment and stuff in the bottles? Will the beer be less clear? I was under the impression that secondary was for clarifying as well.

 

[twistr25]

It can be, but that'll happen in the primary as well.

You are going to use a wine thief to bottle? I would think that has high oxidation potential. Let that beer sit in your primary until you get a bottling bucket and wand. Won't hurt a thing.

 

[kombat]

No Airlock. I bought a kit from the local store and they gave me a fermenting pail with just a lid. They neglected to tell me not to put the lid on tight. Also, there is no airlock on the lid. They said they just put the lid on loosely and don't worry about an airlock.

Sounds similar to my setup. I have a couple of buckets I use this way. To be safe, instead of just putting the lid on loosely, set something moderately heavy on top of it to form a "snug" seal, but not "snapped" onto the bucket. I set my lid on, and then I sit a bucket of grain on top of the lid, to keep the lid on snug. It's not "snapped" on (as that would cause it to explode), but it creates a tight enough seal to keep bugs out, while still allowing pressure to escape when it builds up enough to lift the lid just a hair to vent excess CO2.

The secondary they gave me is a carboy with an airlock.

That's perfect! You could just use that as your primary/only fermenter and skip the bucket altogether.

 

[commandercool]

It can be, but that'll happen in the primary as well.

You are going to use a wine thief to bottle? I would think that has high oxidation potential. Let that beer sit in your primary until you get a bottling bucket and wand. Won't hurt a thing.

As I said, I'm completely green so just going off of what the guys at the store told (Not that they necessarily know what they're talking about).

What's the difference between a wand and a wine thief? The thing they gave me has a little valve that when pressed, allows the liquid out.

 

[kaconga]

Why wouldn't you have an airlock, though? They're cheap, and decrease risk of infection. I see no reason to not have one.

Some lids are not drilled for airlocks. They are unnecessary for brewing. I like having them but just keeping it covered with the lid will be adequate.

 

[kombat]

Find a different supply store. That's ridiculous advice. Airlocks are so cheap, there's no reason not to have one, and they greatly reduce the chance of getting an infection. Why wouldn't you have an airlock, though? They're cheap, and decrease risk of infection. I see no reason to not have one.

That advice seems a little extreme - it's possible his homebrew shop is very nice. The fact that they sell buckets with lids without holes doesn't mean the entire shop is crap. Heck, my own LHBS sells identical buckets and dispenses the same advice. Guess what - I've used those very buckets to make plenty of perfectly good beer. You don't need the airlock, just make sure the lid is snug, but not sealed. I set a bucket of grain on top of mine. That keeps a pretty tight seal, but allows CO2 to escape when the pressure builds up enough.

The lid has an indentation for a hole for an airlock - it's just not cut out. If I really wanted to, I could find an appropriately-sized hole cutting bit and drill it out myself, then find a grommet and install an airlock, but it works perfectly fine as-is, so why bother?

 

[kombat]

So my question would be, would I add my priming sugar right to my fermenting pail when I'm ready to bottle?

No. Don't mix the priming solution into the primary, because you need to mix the solution to ensure it is evenly dissolved into the beer. Doing this in your primary fermenter would also stir up the yeast and trub, resulting in cloudy, yeasty-tasting beer.

Here's what I would recommend. Ferment in the carboy instead of the bucket. Forego "secondary" completely. Just leave it in the carboy for 14-21 days. When you're ready to bottle, prepare your solution and pour it into the bucket, then rack the beer from the carboy into the bucket and GENTLY stir it to ensure it is evenly dissolved. Leave the yeast and sediment behind, in the carboy. Then proceed with bottling, from the bucket.

 

[twistr25]

As I said, I'm completely green so just going off of what the guys at the store told (Not that they necessarily know what they're talking about).

What's the difference between a wand and a wine thief? The thing they gave me has a little valve that when pressed, allows the liquid out.

Yeah, that's a bottling wand then, not a wine thief

 

[TheZymurgist]

Yeah, that's a bottling wand then, not a wine thief

Could be a wine thief.

This is a bottling wand. It attaches via hose to the spigot, and has a spring on the valve to create a better seal. Most thieves tend to leak, and many won't fit inside a bottle. I'm assuming the one they gave you does, at least I hope so.

Logistically, I think it would be very difficult to bottle using a thief, and could create a big mess, with beer dripping everywhere. Plus, it's much harder to avoid the trub, which is probably why they said to rack to secondary. Not to mention the fact that the further down you get, the more draws it will take to fill one bottle. The time, mess, and headache you will save with a bottling bucket is well worth the small cost. I just don't want to see you getting fed up with bottling by making it harder than it needs to be.

 

[TheZymurgist]

That advice seems a little extreme - it's possible his homebrew shop is very nice. The fact that they sell buckets with lids without holes doesn't mean the entire shop is crap. Heck, my own LHBS sells identical buckets and dispenses the same advice. Guess what - I've used those very buckets to make plenty of perfectly good beer. You don't need the airlock, just make sure the lid is snug, but not sealed. I set a bucket of grain on top of mine. That keeps a pretty tight seal, but allows CO2 to escape when the pressure builds up enough.

The lid has an indentation for a hole for an airlock - it's just not cut out. If I really wanted to, I could find an appropriately-sized hole cutting bit and drill it out myself, then find a grommet and install an airlock, but it works perfectly fine as-is, so why bother?

You're right, that was a little extreme, but advice like that would make me question the quality of any future advice. I go back to my argument that airlocks are so cheap, there is simply no reason not to have one. Yes, you can make perfectly good beer without them, but the risk both infection and beer seeping out of the fermenter is increased. If they sell lids with holes and they sell air locks, why not advise people on best practices?

 

[commandercool]

Everything on here seems like sound advice! I'm sure the people at the store make good beer kits, but everything they told me was from the instructions. That being said, it's primarily a wine store so I doubt that they are avid beer brewers. I appreciate the advice that can ultimately make a home brew taste even better! After a bit of research, it seems like secondary fermentation is unnecessary unless planning to add fruit etc. I will tweak my set up a bit and make sure my next batch is done right in the carboy. I will look into a bucket with a spigot for bottling purposes.

Also, it's a bottling wand... I'm sure the guy said wine thief..... Anyways, I digress... My friday has officially been freed up as I no longer need to move to a secondary! Thanks!

 

[FreddyMar3]

+1 on finding a new store. I can't believe they gave you a fermentation bucket with no airlock hole. Also can't believe the lid didn't blow.

 

[commandercool]

+1 on finding a new store. I can't believe they gave you a fermentation bucket with no airlock hole. Also can't believe the lid didn't blow.

I'm sure it was a few minutes away. The lid was heaving outward. My first thought was "Sweet, it's doing what it's supposed to do!", then my next thought was, "or is it...."

 

[RoadKing]

If you had an air lock your question would be.....It's not bubbling, is it done?...lol
Kit instructions are vague, at best. I would forgo the secondary and just leave it in the primary for 3-weeks and bottle it. It sounds like your already at terminal gravity, but the yeast will continue to work and clean up after themselves.
Your better off not opening the fermenter, taking samples etc..until you've got a good feel for what your doing. If you want to see the fermentation, use the carboy (and air lock ) next time, it's pretty cool.
In the mean time use the search button for any question you can think of,(use the google custom search from the drop down) and by the time your ready to bottle, you'll have a good grasp on what's going on.