Help!

[SpoogE]

Hey guys,

I mostly just lurk around here but you guys are great! This place has been an invaluable resource to me in my brewing endeavors so far. I'm having some trouble with my latest batch of beer and need some help figuring out whether it's worth trying to save or not. This is gonna be somewhat long so bear with me...

The recipe I used was this Fat Tire clone, extract+grain recipe from byo.com. It's my first time using this recipe. Before I begin I should mention that I am using a Mr. Beer plastic keg as my primary fermenter. It's worked well for me so far by simply cutting 5-gal recipes in half. So that's what I did with this recipe, I cut each ingredient in half.

I am pretty confident that I followed the recipe correctly, as I double-checked all my ingredients thoroughly before adding them. The only problem during the brew was a bit of boil-over as I heated it up to boiling (stupid mistake... I ran to grab the phone just before it started to boil and by the time I got back it was going over just a bit). I may have lost about 5% of the pre-hopped wort due to the boil-over, but I didn't think it should have made a ton of overall difference in the brew.

My local HBS was out of the Wyeast 1056 and the guy working suggested a dry Safale yeast which was apparently a 1056 clone. After the brew was complete and the full 2.5 gal wort was cooled to about 78 degrees, I shook the keg well to aerate the wort and then pitched the yeast. No starter, since the HBS guy said I shouldn't need it. I then left it to ferment at around 75-78 degrees (a little warm I know, but the best I can do here in TX).

My first clue that something may have been wrong with my brew was the starting gravity. It measured at a 1.040 prior to pitching the yeast, as opposed to the 1.050 which the recipe suggested. I figured this might be due to the over-boil incident I mentioned earlier, and didn't think too much about it.

Fermentation seemed to start within the first 24 hours. I noticed a lot of fizzing, but oddly virtually no foam as I've usually experienced with other brews. The fizzing kept up for about 2 days and then stopped. For the next 4 days there was no visible activity. 7 days after brewing, I took a sample and measured a gravity of 1.020 (as opposed to 1.011 which the recipe suggests). The beer was also VERY dark, similar in color to a bock (and way different from the Fat Tire I thought I was cloning...). I didn't notice the color until taking the sample since it had been inside the amber keg and the color was difficult to tell. No funny tastes or smells except for a strong sweetness which led me to believe fermentation was nowhere near complete.

At that point I read that yeast can sometimes quit due to poor aeration so I shook the keg to aerate it some more, and left it for 2 more days... but still no visible activity or change in gravity during that 2 days. Still no funny flavors or smells, just VERY sweet.

Finally I decided to try a new packet of the same yeast, just in case something had gone wrong. So I bought some new yeast, shook the keg and repitched the new yeast, and left it for a week. Still no visible activity during that week...

And that brings us to today. It's been 16 days since the initial brew and I'm still stuck at 1.020 with a VERY sweet, dark, bock-looking beer. It's way too sweet to drink and doesn't taste like beer at all, so I don't want to bottle it unless I can figure out what's going on and get it to finish fermenting.

Any ideas on what I could have done wrong? Has anyone ever had anything like this happen to them?

 

[Kephren]

It's just done. 1.020 isn't that far out of range. However.... you should *never* aerate the beer once it has started fermenting. It will probably taste alright for the first couple of weeks, but after a couple of weeks, you are going to start tasting the oxygenation, which has been described as "wet cardboard" or "sherry" flavors. Just prime and bottle at this point and hope for the best.

 

[SpoogE]

Thanks for the reply. Man, I'd love to believe you, but I'm still just having a hard time believing it could possibly be finished... the gravity has only changed half as much as the recipe suggests it should have. 1.040 to 1.020 means an alcohol content of 2.5%, is that really possible with a beer this dark?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Let's go back to the basics...you said your brew is VERY sweet - I'd guess you didn't add any hops.

Let's try to save it. You said you have about 2.5 gals of beer right? Is it already in the keg? Can you add ingredients to the keg? Do you have any hops in the 5-10% AA range that you can use for bittering? If so, I want you to take 2 cups of water and add 1/2 oz of hops and boil them for 1/2 hour. Strain the hops from the tea and add it to your beer. Then gently swirl it around for a minute of two to mix it. Let it sit for a couple of hours and repeat. Your beer should be ready the next day. I've done this in the past with great success.

Other observations:

Adding yeast again was just a waste of yeast. Yeast doesn't add the bitterness you need to balance your brew.

Chances are your brew is darker than expected because you burned some of it at the time of overboil.

When you take your samples and read the gravity you should also take a reading for the temp. You'll need to compensate the gravity on the temp scale. Like, what was the temp at 1.020? And what was the OG at 78F? These are important numbers if you want to take proper readings.

Maybe someone else will have something else to add that I may have missed.

Good luck. Keep us informed.

 

[ScottT]

Did you use the Laaglander DME? If so, that's what did it. It's only 65% fermentable and will leave you with a sweet brew.

You can try boiling some hops in water to make a hop tea then strain it and add it to your brew. The additional bitterness will balance out the sweet.

 

[SpoogE]

Bill, yes of course I added my hops! I admit I'm still a bit of a newbie but I'm not THAT new!! I divided the recommended hops in half and measured them in a small food scale before adding to the boil for each stage of the recipe.

I didn't think about the possibility of the wort being "burned"... didn't know that can happen! But that could very well explain the darkness.

The OG of 1.040 was measured at 78 degrees, and honestly I haven't taken a temp reading since then. The room has been a constant 75-78 so I'm assuming the beer is in that range as well. I didn't think there would be enough temp difference between the OG and now to affect my readings much. But you probably make a good point... I'll have to make a habit to be a little more detailed with my record-keeping in the future.

I realize now that the extra yeast was a waste... I wasn't trying to add bittering, it just really seemed like the fermentation wasn't done yet because of my gravity readings.

The hop tea is a great idea which I would have never thought of. I have some 6.0% Cascades, as well as some 3.8% Hallertaus and of course the 4.0% Fuggles and Willamettes from this recipe. Should I try the Cascades for the hop tea?

Scott, yes I did use the Laaglander DME. That probably explains a lot about the sweetness! Hopefully some extra hops will perk it up a bit.

Thanks for all the responses so far! You guys rock. I'm about to run to the store for some turkey day supplies for my wife, and I'll look for responses and hopefully try the hop tea after I get back.

 

[ScottT]

The hop tea is a great idea which I would have never thought of. I have some 6.0% Cascades, as well as some 3.8% Hallertaus and of course the 4.0% Fuggles and Willamettes from this recipe. Should I try the Cascades for the hop tea?

Scott, yes I did use the Laaglander DME. That probably explains a lot about the sweetness! Hopefully some extra hops will perk it up a bit.

The cascades will give you a citrus note that may not be appropriate in this brew. I would use the Fuggles or Williamette in keeping with the flavor profile of this brew.

 

[david_42]

Wait until you peel some "black pastic stuff" off of the bottom of the kettle, then you'll understand burned.

Cascades would be your best bet out of that group.

 

[homebrewer_99]

SpoogE: Like I said, I was only taking it back to the basics...that's why I asked about the hops and the other observations. Sometimes it's difficult to answer questions correctly when you aren't given all the info.

SpoogE: I would use some of the same hops you used for the brew, but then again...the choice is always yours to make. We can only recommend. When I made mine I had a 1/2 gal and only used 3 cups for the 5 gals batch. I tasted the hop tea the next day and it was like really strong tea. Very bitter. I thought about reheating it and adding sugar and milk so I could drink it. You can get hop extract tablets at the health food store. I don't think it's something we could use for beer though.

ScottT: Good call on the Laaglander malt. Would definitely be sweeter than desired.

David: OUCH!!!

 

[SpoogE]

SpoogE: Like I said, I was only taking it back to the basics...that's why I asked about the hops and the other observations. Sometimes it's difficult to answer questions correctly when you aren't given all the info.

No worries! I was only joking around, hence the face

SpoogE: I would use some of the same hops you used for the brew, but then again...the choice is always yours to make. We can only recommend. When I made mine I had a 1/2 gal and only used 3 cups for the 5 gals batch. I tasted the hop tea the next day and it was like really strong tea. Very bitter. I thought about reheating it and adding sugar and milk so I could drink it. You can get hop extract tablets at the health food store. I don't think it's something we could use for beer though.

Cool, thanks! I'm currently boiling a hop tea using a bit less than 1/2 oz of Willamette and Fuggles mixed together. I'll cool and strain it into my fermenter once it's finished boiling. We'll see how it turns out I guess!

I'm glad I decided to come on here and ask about this. I was just about ready to toss the whole batch but now I'm excited again to see whether it's gonna get saved or not

 

[croba50]

Hey guys,

I mostly just lurk around here but you guys are great! This place has been an invaluable resource to me in my brewing endeavors so far. I'm having some trouble with my latest batch of beer and need some help figuring out whether it's worth trying to save or not. This is gonna be somewhat long so bear with me...

The recipe I used was this Fat Tire clone, extract+grain recipe from byo.com. It's my first time using this recipe. Before I begin I should mention that I am using a Mr. Beer plastic keg as my primary fermenter. It's worked well for me so far by simply cutting 5-gal recipes in half. So that's what I did with this recipe, I cut each ingredient in half.

I am pretty confident that I followed the recipe correctly, as I double-checked all my ingredients thoroughly before adding them. The only problem during the brew was a bit of boil-over as I heated it up to boiling (stupid mistake... I ran to grab the phone just before it started to boil and by the time I got back it was going over just a bit). I may have lost about 5% of the pre-hopped wort due to the boil-over, but I didn't think it should have made a ton of overall difference in the brew.

My local HBS was out of the Wyeast 1056 and the guy working suggested a dry Safale yeast which was apparently a 1056 clone. After the brew was complete and the full 2.5 gal wort was cooled to about 78 degrees, I shook the keg well to aerate the wort and then pitched the yeast. No starter, since the HBS guy said I shouldn't need it. I then left it to ferment at around 75-78 degrees (a little warm I know, but the best I can do here in TX).

My first clue that something may have been wrong with my brew was the starting gravity. It measured at a 1.040 prior to pitching the yeast, as opposed to the 1.050 which the recipe suggested. I figured this might be due to the over-boil incident I mentioned earlier, and didn't think too much about it.

Fermentation seemed to start within the first 24 hours. I noticed a lot of fizzing, but oddly virtually no foam as I've usually experienced with other brews. The fizzing kept up for about 2 days and then stopped. For the next 4 days there was no visible activity. 7 days after brewing, I took a sample and measured a gravity of 1.020 (as opposed to 1.011 which the recipe suggests). The beer was also VERY dark, similar in color to a bock (and way different from the Fat Tire I thought I was cloning...). I didn't notice the color until taking the sample since it had been inside the amber keg and the color was difficult to tell. No funny tastes or smells except for a strong sweetness which led me to believe fermentation was nowhere near complete.

At that point I read that yeast can sometimes quit due to poor aeration so I shook the keg to aerate it some more, and left it for 2 more days... but still no visible activity or change in gravity during that 2 days. Still no funny flavors or smells, just VERY sweet.

Finally I decided to try a new packet of the same yeast, just in case something had gone wrong. So I bought some new yeast, shook the keg and repitched the new yeast, and left it for a week. Still no visible activity during that week...

And that brings us to today. It's been 16 days since the initial brew and I'm still stuck at 1.020 with a VERY sweet, dark, bock-looking beer. It's way too sweet to drink and doesn't taste like beer at all, so I don't want to bottle it unless I can figure out what's going on and get it to finish fermenting.

Any ideas on what I could have done wrong? Has anyone ever had anything like this happen to them?

first thing i would do and yes i did the same thing you are doing when i started i found out shortly to spend the money and get the starter kit6 gal pails 2 with book/video and capper so on was about $60.00 and yes i also did (mr. beer kits) man was i stupid.... i think most of us start out that way...
as far as pitching yeast i do on about 50 % of my batches when i got a new kit to try. as far as the sweet taste could of been a bad yeast packet
or the yeast got shocked and went dorment........

on your next batch brewed right before and after you pitch the yeast into wort take a wisk and wipppp the daylight out of it to get aeraration this will help the yeast get a good start. never aerate after frematation or during killes the yeast

we all have had a batch or 2 go bad and sometimes tring to find out what we did wrong ???? is the hardest thing to fine out .........and some times it not something we have done it s bad product...

first thing i would do is start by getting a frematation pail and a bottling pail. $60.00
this way you can make a 5 gals at a time and that is what most kits are
anyway is 5 gal mixes or kits. get a 8 qt or 10qt stock pot $10.00
if your hbs does not have or is higher priced check it out online this is the place i get some of my supplys from www.midwestsupplies.com
i think thay have a starter for $55.00 or check around on line to find a better price. there are a ton of places online.

brew and enjoy

 

[SpoogE]

Just an update if anyone is interested...

I made a hop tea using a 1/2 oz mixture of Willamette and Fuggle hops as Bill suggested. Once cool, I strained it to the fermenter and gently swirled it to mix it up. I aged it another couple days and then bottled the beer.

My bottles have been aging for about 2 weeks now, and I finally tried one last night. The beer pours about the color of Guinness, so dark you can't see through the glass at all. It pours a nice creamy head and the carbonation level is about perfect in my opinion. I can definitely tell a difference in the extra hops, but the beer is still VERY VERY sweet... so sweet that it doesn't really taste like beer at all.

So in the end, unfortunately I'm afraid I may have to ditch this batch... it tasted odd enough that I could barely finish the one. Still not sure what I did wrong, since this is my first out of many batches that turned out badly and I don't feel like I did much wrong. The only thing I can point to is the overboil incident, but it was so quick I'm having a hard time believing it would have made such a huge impact.

Oh well, I guess it's time to try a new recipe and a new batch!

 

[Genghis77]

Instead of dumping that batch, send it back into the fermentation and have a go with another strain of yeast and add a dry hop. Sounds like your yeast may not have converted all the sugar. What sort of ABV were you trying for?

 

[SpoogE]

If my calculations are correct I currently have an ABV of ~2.5%. According to the recipe specifications, I should have ended up with ~5%...

I think you're right that the yeast didn't convert all the sugar but that is what baffles me... I repitched with a second package of yeast and it literally did nothing. Perhaps the yeast was too weak for the brew somehow, but I don't see how that could be since I followed everything according to BYO's recipe.

 

[Genghis77]

Dump it back into the fermenter and use another yeast. You lessen the chances of a outdated or improperly stored yeast that way. If all else fails, that is why I still keep some dry lager yeast around. I've been taking 2 weeks in the prime fermentation due to cool weather brewing.

I just had a batch where one bottle had gone bad out of the bunch. Little carbonation, almost no head and tasted sweet. But other bottles were excellent. I prefer the flippy top bottles, but the one bad one was a recycled wine bottle. Bad seal. Sure glad I didn't jump the gun and dump the rest.

 

[SpoogE]

Yeah I kno what you mean, but I'm fairly certain my yeast was not impropery stored or outdated... Both of the packages I used were dry and came directly from the HBS on the day they were pitched.

 

[Shambolic]

Some of the Safale yeasts have fairly low attenuation too. Ales I have made with Safale S-04 have finished with a gravity of about 1017. They've turned out fine.

So if you don't like the sweetness, I'd try a yeast that advertises medium to high attenuation, and perhaps, as ScottT suggested, a different malt extract next time.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Still too sweet...curiouser and curiouser.

I hope the additional yeast/fermentation corrects the problem.