Help with recipe for brett pale ale or brett saison

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TNTgill

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As a background some of my favorite beers are Victory Helios, Green Flash Rayon Vert, and Goose Island Matilda. Please Help with a recipe for a saison and Belgian Pale Ale. I would like a large brett influence.

Current Inventory:
55# Pils
50# White wheat
30# 2 row
10# Cara-pils
10# C40
10# Rye
10# Vienna
3# Thomas Fawcett Amber
2 # acid malt
<1 # of flaked barley, aromatic, biscuit, chocolate, c-60,

Hops:
1.25# Amarillo
1# nugget
1# magnum
1# Falconers flight
1.25 # Citra
.8 # Hallertau
.8# Centennial
0.6# Simcoe
5oz Strisselspalt
4oz Cascade, summit, mt hood
1 oz sorachi ace

yeast
Bells-harvested
Conan-harvested
wyeast 3726
wlp 565
wlp 500
wlp001
s05
wlp645
wlp650

Anyone have thoughts or a recipe they would like to share. I can always buy other items if necessary but would like to use what i have first.

Thank you all
 
you have everything you need to make a very nice rye saison:

75% pils
15% rye
5% table sugar
3% C-60
2% acidulated
rice hulls

mash for 60 mins at 148*F, then 15 minutes at 158 (second step optional, just mash 75 mins at 148)

- 60 min addition of Hallertau or Strisselspalt to get 25 IBUs
- a small late addition at flameout, like 0.5-1.0 oz of amarillo or citra (no, this isn't "by the books" but i really like it)

WLP565 (if you aren't familiar with this yeast read up on it. you could pitch a small starter of something else, like the 3726, at high krausen after the 565 stalls out... or you can wait out the 565).

if you can, age a portion (or all of it) with wlp650 for 6 months.

hide from friends.
 
No need to make a good saison so complicated, it's the yeast that wants to shine.

Somewhere in the range of

80% Pils/Pale
10% munich/vienna/victory
5% wheat/rye/oats ... maybe some aromatic or biscuit.
5% Acidulated.

You could also make a stellar saison with say, 90%pils and 10%munich or wheat, or just 100% pils.

However, I am in league with those who would never dream of adding crystal malt to such a dry beer.

I also can NOT stand new world hops in a saison. I vote you stick with the Strisslespalt and Hallertau, though the Magnum's could make for a nice bitter version.


I find 565 works great, but needs the warmth and a BIG starter. Or, you could underpitch and wait for to stall and then add the Brett C. As the poster above noted, you'll want to wait a good 6-8 months for that to come into its prime though.
 
However, I am in league with those who would never dream of adding crystal malt to such a dry beer.
that's why i added the sugar. an all-pils saison is out of style, color-wise, according to the BJCP (if being style-compliant is even a concern...)

jamil has some caramunich in his classic recipe.

Or, you could underpitch and wait for to stall and then add the Brett C.

some folks really like brett C in their saisons, but personally i find it a bit too restrained... i prefer B's funk.
 
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I do have the ability to long age either beer so I will definitely do that. I can raise my temps up to 85 F or so but not much higher. Will this work for the saison yeast for primary? I definitely want so good funk so it will get Brett B. If it does stall out at say 1.030 will the brett still give some funk or will it be too clean. Also do you let if ferment completely out with the sacc yeast and then hit it with Brett or pitch the saison yeast and let it run several days then pitch Brett?

I think for the Brett C I may try for the C+C Brett Factory recipe from embrace the funk but primary with conan and secondary with Brett C. Any other ideas?
 
A couple of weeks ago I brewed a Citra pale ale with Brett C and Brett B as the primary yeast. I pitched a vial of each in the fermenter without a starter. After 7 days at 85° the gravity was down to 1.011 from 1.056

I'm not sure if these results are typical of an all Brett fermentation. This is my first attempt.
 
Idlehands said:
A couple of weeks ago I brewed a Citra pale ale with Brett C and Brett B as the primary yeast. I pitched a vial of each in the fermenter without a starter. After 7 days at 85° the gravity was down to 1.011 from 1.056

I'm not sure if these results are typical of an all Brett fermentation. This is my first attempt.

5 gallon batch?
 
Sorry about that, it is a 5 gallon batch. Inspired by the C+C Brett Factory recipe from the Embrace the Funk website. I added the Brett B because I thought it would give a little stronger Brett character.

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 1 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (White Labs #WLP650)
 
Idlehands said:
Sorry about that, it is a 5 gallon batch. Inspired by the C+C Brett Factory recipe from the Embrace the Funk website. I added the Brett B because I thought it would give a little stronger Brett character.

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 1 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (White Labs #WLP650)

Huh. I'm shocked you got that much attenuation from 2 vials considering that's under pitching a lot.
 
I figured I underpitched so I made a starter with some Brett C3. After about 30 hours the Brett B and Brett C fermentation took off so I never pitched the C3.
 
if you want a heavy brett influence (more funk than fruit), use a saccharomyces saison strain first for the primary fermentation and then add brett brux. from what i understand, the funkiness comes from the precursor chemicals created by the sacc fermentation. in my experience, it's nice and fruity after 3 months and gets funkier around 6.

in terms of grist, i'd go with bootsyfanootsy. nice and simple. maybe with some flaked wheat or oats for the beta-glucans (which give it body).

some dregs from a jolly pumpkin, bruery, or allagash sour would be nice too. the brett that's in jolly pumpkin beers is fantastic.
 
I can raise my temps up to 85 F or so but not much higher. Will this work for the saison yeast for primary?
with 565 (Dupont strain), you need heat + patience... or a secondary strain. 85*F should do the trick as long as you give it time. someone recently told me that Dupont needs more O2 than most yeasts, so oxygenate it a lot. hit it with O2/air pump a second time a few hours after the initial oxygenation. expect it to stall out, lay dormant for a week or two, then eventually kick back up.

or, use a second yeast pitched at high krausen.

I definitely want so good funk so it will get Brett B. If it does stall out at say 1.030 will the brett still give some funk or will it be too clean.
brett makes the funk by transforming the by-products of sacc (read this). so you'll get maximum funk by getting as much sacc action as you can, then adding the brett. that being said, Dupont kicks out a ton of stuff to chew on, so using brett as the only secondary strain will also work. only thing that makes me nervous about doing that is that your 1.030 wort still has a lot of sugar in there and brett is a slow starter... there is always a slight chance that some airborne infection sneaks in there as you're adding the brett (or any other occasion you have the carboy open).

i've never used brett C so i can't help you there.
 
Thanks for the help sweetcell. I am heating the strike water now. Going to follow your recommendation on the recipe.
 
Sorry about that, it is a 5 gallon batch. Inspired by the C+C Brett Factory recipe from the Embrace the Funk website. I added the Brett B because I thought it would give a little stronger Brett character.

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 15 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 10 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 5 min
0.2 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 1 min
0.5 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645)
1 pkgs Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (White Labs #WLP650)

I'm curious about this one. How did the B/C blend turn out?
 
It worked out pretty well. I pitched one vial of each with no starter. I fermented it in the 80° range and finished in 3 to 5 days. It had a really unique flavor and aroma. Not the typical brett funk that I've come to expect.
 
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