Help with low attenuation of 52% with London Ale III 1318 (previous batch as well with s-04)

[bucketheadmn]

My last two batches have had very low attenuation of 52% - first was a batch of Lil Sparky's Nut Brown Ale which I used a rehydrated s-04. I lived with that - kegged it and just finished the batch off. Currently I have a Bent Paddle Black Ale clone (using AustinHomebrew recipe) that is 1 week in and stuck at 52% as well. Both are 2.5 gallons brewed using BIAB.

I am wondering if it might be the temp that I am fermenting at - mid to high 50s. I do not have a fermentation chamber and it has been quite cold here in MN and it has been cold in my basement as well. It did stay in the low 60s for the first 2 days or so as I did have a wool blanket around it. I just moved the fermentor up a level so that it is at ambient temperature of about 60. I could move it to a room that is nearer 70 most of the time if that would help.

I did a 1L starter just shaking it over 24 hours. My current batch had a OG of 1.063 which was right on with what Brewer's Friend said I would be at. My grain bill was:

5 lb American - Pale Ale
0.38 lb Flaked Oats
0.38 lb United Kingdom - Golden Naked Oats
0.25 lb United Kingdom - Black Patent
0.25 lb United Kingdom - Crystal 60L

Any help would be great. I am brewing up a Maris Otter/Columbus SMaSH tonight and would to not see this happen 3 times in a row.

 

[HomebrewHandicapper]

I would say the temp is definitely playing a role. For your next batch I would start fermentation in the ambient 60 then after a few days move it to the 70 degree room to finish it out. Also, maybe check your thermometers to make sure you are not mashing at a higher temp than you want to, creating unfermentables.

 

[Cevan65]

1318 requires 64-74 temps. You're way low.

 

[bucketheadmn]

I just moved it to a 66 ambient temp room. Hopefully that helps finish it up. For some reason I did not write down what I mashed at - I am wondering if I was up above 160 as I seem to recall it being a bit higher than I wanted it to be. Still a bit new so learning what mash temps and fermentation temps do and how they effect the final product.

 

[thehaze]

Wyeast 1318 is a great english* yeast, which requires higher fermentation temps. Personally, I like to ferment it warmer. I usually get around 75% attenuation, and sometimes more.

But warming it up, should probably help with attenuation.

Just a quick note: at 55F you can basically brew lagers and Baltic Porter, or anything with Lager yeast, so maybe try somehting like that next time.

 

[dmtaylor]

Funny you mention this. I just got 58% attenuation with S-04 on my Scottish ale. It's still in primary. I fermented cold about 57 F. I figured this might be too cold and it really must have been, as I know I got about 75% attenuation with the same yeast just a couple of months ago. I guess it can't handle the cold. I have even warmed it up to 69 F with swirling but it doesn't seem to be waking up. I'll give it a little more time but ultimately I will package the beer regardless as long as final gravity remains constant. I thought about adding some US-05 but decided not to. US-05 would definitely jump-start it again if I wanted.

 

[couchsending]

You can ferment both those yeasts that cold you just need A LOT more yeast. I believe in talking to the head brewer that won gold for cream ale at GABF this year he used 1318 at 58 to produce it.

But year at normal pitch rates you need at least 60-62 ambient for first 48-72 then bring it somewhere closer to 70 to finish.

 

[dmtaylor]

I definitely underpitched pretty severely for such a cold temperature. I wouldn't have thought this would affect attenuation, but maybe it did.

 

[Cevan65]

Why are both of you are pitching these yeasts outside of the temperature range that the yeast manufacturer recommends?

 

[dmtaylor]

Well... my basement is very cold in the winter, but it seemed to be fermenting just fine, so I left it.

 

[bucketheadmn]

Why are both of you are pitching these yeasts outside of the temperature range that the yeast manufacturer recommends?

Well I pitched both times right at 70. The tough thing is keeping it that temp during the winter in MN with no fermentation chamber. I am starting to look at what I can do for a chamber. The brewjacket looks sweet as I would not need to buy and keep another fridge running.

 

[bucketheadmn]

You can ferment both those yeasts that cold you just need A LOT more yeast. I believe in talking to the head brewer that won gold for cream ale at GABF this year he used 1318 at 58 to produce it.

But year at normal pitch rates you need at least 60-62 ambient for first 48-72 then bring it somewhere closer to 70 to finish.

What would be considered a lot more yeast? Batch I made last night with 1056 I used a stir plate for the first time. 1.2L starter on plate for 48 hours, but I harvested off 400ml for next batch.....

 

[couchsending]

Lager pitching rates... 1.5-1.75

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

warning: Zombie thread resurrection...

Bent Paddle Black Ale clone

5 lb American - Pale Ale
0.38 lb Flaked Oats
0.38 lb United Kingdom - Golden Naked Oats
0.25 lb United Kingdom - Black Patent
0.25 lb United Kingdom - Crystal 60L

Does anyone have a recipe that gets a little closer to the "real" Bent Paddle Black Ale? Google brought me to this thread (and AustinHomeBrew), but according to Bent Paddle's website, the malts are:

2-Row, Golden Promise, Carafa 3 (Dehusked), Crystal Light, Crystal Extra Dark, Golden Naked Oats, Flaked Oats

This has long been one of my favorite Minnesota beers, and I'd love a good clone recipe! If nobody has anything more specific, I'm going to try something like the following for a 1 gallon batch:
[50%] 2-row
[20%] Golden Promise
[10%] Midnight Wheat (instead of Carafa 3 special)
[5%] Simpsons Crystal Light
[5%] Simpsons Extra Dark Crystal
[5%] flaked oats
[5%] golden naked oats

Centennial @ 60 for about 30 ibu
Willamette @ 5 for 5 ibu

Any input/advice welcomed!