Help with Honey Ale Recipe

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evbc

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Greetings everyone! My wife and I are new to homebrewing and just brewed our third batch this afternoon. We decided to brew a light summer ale with honey to have ready for a BBQ we're having in March. Before we brewed we entered our recipe into BeerSmith to see what we should anticipate for our Original Gravity. The software came up with 1.045. When we measure OG, prior to pitching our yeast, our reading was 1.032. Below is our recipe:

3 Lbs. Pale Malt DME (2 Row)
2 Lbs. Rice Extract
1.00 Oz. Saaz (60 min)
1.00 Oz. Saaz (5 min)
8.00 Oz. Orange Blossom Honey (5 min)
1 Lb. Orange Blossom Honey at Flame-Out

Does 1.032 seem reasonable or did we miss something in our recipe? Also, we would love to hear anyone's feedback on anything they would change/modify. With this recipe we want a beer that is light with a noticeable hint of honey, and hopefully this is what we'll get.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!
 
Well, our Honey Ale has been in primary for over 2 weeks now and we are planning on taking a gravity reading tomorrow to see how it's doing. We are considering racking it to a carboy and adding honey before bottling. Does anyone recommend this (or recommend not doing it)? If so, how long would you recommend letting it sit in secondary with the honey before bottling?

Thanks again.....
 
Adding more honey would give you a little bit of honey aroma/taste. Doing this though will start a secondary fermentation which will dry out your beer, but give you an alcohol boost. Was this a 5 gallon batch?
 
This was a 5 gallon batch. The more we are learning the more we see how adding honey won't get the flavor we want. We took a hydrometer reading tonight and tasted it. Very dry! I'm now looking up back sweetening. Do you recommend something to sweeten up this batch (given we are 2 weeks into primary)?

Thanks again for your help!
 
I don't know what you could add at this point. You could add lactose, but it doesn't really fit with the style of the beer. Next time try adding honey malt to your recipe, it really does add that honey aroma/flavor without drying the beer out.
 
Are you sure your hydrometer reading is right? It is definitely odd to be that off your OG when you are all extract and honey. check that out.

What is FG?

Definitely add honey malt next time.

How does it taste?
 
1.032 was inaccurate. with all extracts and honey, there is no way not to hit the predicted OG unless your total was over 5 gallons.

when people talk about "missing their OG" it is in reference to all-grain, where you have to mash to get the sugars. with extract, that part is done before you start.

what happens with extract batches is often the wort is not thoroughly mixed with the top-off water and the sample ends up watery.

by the way, when i ran your numbers, i show an OG of more like 1.053
 
I agree that 1.032 was inaccurate. Our sample may not have been the best. It was only the second batch we had done so I'm sure there is room for improvement in our methods. We scooped the sample out whereas now we have a thief to take our samples from the middle.

Last night we took a FG reading and sampled the sample :). Our FG reading was 1.010. The beer tasted just as we suspected, light and dry. Not at all what we thought it would taste like when we started. Then the question arose, what can we do to it to sweeten it up....

We are still really new at this but we are quick studies. We know that if we just "add more honey" we'll just end up with the same result. I searched the forums and read that darker honeys and molasses has some unfermentables in them and the flavor may come across. I also read about back sweetening and something about KMS tablets to stop the fermentation of any additional sweetener. We really don't want to add Splenda or the like as I can't stand the flavor of those to begin with.

We would truly appreciate any suggestions on how we could sweeten this little batch up before bottling. This batch was for a birthday party in 3 weeks and were hoping we can do something to get it back on track (of our expectations).

Thank you again for all of the insight. This place is a wealth of knowledge and we are learning so much. It's awesome.
 
Back sweetening a light ale such as this is bot going to give it what you are looking for. You want malt taste, not sweet taste. The rice extract you added caused this very light taste.

I recommend adding a darker extract next time you brew. Amber maybe.

And steep honey malt and maybe 8 oz of crystal.

Do not boil the honey at all. You boil off all the aromas in the honey.

Two options for honey. Wait until the wort cools to 180F and add all honey at once. Or ferment without the honey until fermentation slows, then heat all honey in some water and keep at 180F for a few mins. Cool and add to wort. This will restart fermentation for a couple days, but will maintain some of the aroma and flavor you are looking for.
 
Bottle what you have. No need to waste. And you may like it on a hot Sumner day. Who knows.

Keep the yeast cake you have and make another batch with a new recipe tonight.
Take a proper hydrometer reading.

Pitch on the yeast you have. It should finish fermenting in less than 2 weeks. Keep a close eye on it so you don't waste time when it is already fermented.

Bottle as soon as you reach your FG and it MAY be carbonated in time. Gently roll the bottles every day to speed this up. You probably have time
 
To modify your recipe:

Lose the rice extract you want a maltier flavor, right?
Increase the pale DME to 4 lbs
Add 1 lb darker DME of your choice.
Hops look okay
Add honey after primary slows.

Check the color, OG, etc of these recommendations before proceeding. I am throwing out ideas...haven't verified anything...
 
Thanks for all of the quick replies! All of these sound like viable plans. While I was reading them (especially adamc) all I could hear in the back of my head was (tick tick tick) :). I see several have mentioned adding honey after primary "slows" - would adding honey now (2 weeks into primary) do anything, or is there a small window to achieve the taste/aroma?
 
So I've been doing some digging to see what all of our options are (including all if the great suggestions here!) and think these 3 sound like they may work given our time constraint. I would like to ask if anyone has any feedback on these approaches:

1. Add a LOT of honey to the fermenter right now (enough to kill the yeast and leave some non-fermentable honey in the beer to add flavor. Don't know how much but it sounds like a couple pounds.

2. Add something like potassium sorbate to chemically disable the yeast and add honey. Will this affect carbing in a bottle though, I don't know.

3. Add a non-fermentable sweetener like Lactose.

Any thoughts on which might work the best, or at all?
 
You will find that you actually get more honey flavor using honey malt instead of putting honey into the boil or the fermentation. It is strong and you have to play with it, or search around recipes, to get an idea of how much to use. I make a bourbon honey ale that uses a half pound of honey malt in the grain bill, then I get some raw honey flavor by using honey to prime the beer for bottling.

Since you are brewing extract, the honey malt would be your specialty grain and it would also help add some maltiness to what looks like an all extract recipe.
 
Thanks for the feedback high5. We plan on brewing this again so we'll definitely be using honey malt next time. I don't think our LHBS carries it so they didn't recommend it.

Since we are past the boil and well into (possibly past) fermentation is there a solution to "sweeten" it up at this stage of the game?

Once again, we appreciate everyone's help!
 
What do you want it to taste like? If you want to modify the flavor at this point, you could add a flavored vodka, to taste, at bottling. I've been known to add some orange vodka at bottling when my blood orange wheat comes out with not enough oranginess. You could also transform it into a bourbon honey ale with some Wild Turkey American Honey liquor.
 
And consider using honey instead of corn sugar to prime the beer for bottling. I use approx 1oz of honey for every gallon of beer. I've never had a beer under carbed, or explode.
 
Awesome! Now we are talking. We want a light ale with a hint of sweetness (honey) for a bbq we are having for a birthday. Do you notice a honey flavor from priming with honey over sugar? That may be the difference maker. And I like the bourbon idea. It may just make it into the batch...

Thanks again!
 
Yes, you'll get some honey flavor from priming with honey. For a 5 gallon batch I'll put 5oz of honey together with a half cup of water and bring it to a boil in the microwave.
 
That sounds great. Thanks for the input! Would you do anything to it before racking? Add anything while it's in the fermenter?
 
Awesome. I think we found our approach. If we added bourbon would we add it at bottling as well?

Thanks a ton to everyone and their input. We'll post the results in a few weeks on how it turned out...
 
evbc said:
So I've been doing some digging to see what all of our options are (including all if the great suggestions here!) and think these 3 sound like they may work given our time constraint. I would like to ask if anyone has any feedback on these approaches:

1. Add a LOT of honey to the fermenter right now (enough to kill the yeast and leave some non-fermentable honey in the beer to add flavor. Don't know how much but it sounds like a couple pounds.

2. Add something like potassium sorbate to chemically disable the yeast and add honey. Will this affect carbing in a bottle though, I don't know.

3. Add a non-fermentable sweetener like Lactose.

Any thoughts on which might work the best, or at all?
Click to expand...

1 will not work. It will ferment out.
2 will disable the yeast, but then it will not carbonate in the bottle (do this if you keg)
3 will sweeten the beer, but will not add saltiness or body.

Leaving as is and using honey to prime for bottling will only slightly affect taste. It will still be a very light ale. If you don't like it as is, I would recommend brewing again.
 
Thanks for the explanation! I've read (but who knows for sure anymore, my head is spinning) that if enough honey is added it won't all ferment out. Is that true?

Don't get me wrong, any beer we brew we are extremely proud of! We just are trying to understand where our results went askew from our expectations and how we can remedy it and learn from our mistakes (or happy accidents).
 
Good morning. Well after being out of town for a few days I'm back and thinking about this beer again. I was able to read all of the replies and I truly appreciate everyone's feedback. It's really helped me understand the effects of different adjuncts/additives. Adamc, thanks for your succinct answers, they cleared up some misconceptions I had. I think we are going to keg this beer. Why fight it when we can keg it and make it taste like we want. Here is what we think we are going to do (but always open to criticism/pointers):

- Add campden to kill off yeast
- Keg this beer and add honey to taste
- Force carbonation through the kegging process

One question that I need to research is whether it's acceptable to re-open the keg once you pressurize it (for example, to add honey, etc.).....
 
Hi everyone,

Well it's been over 3 weeks since we kegged the ale and we've been checking it about every week.

We racked the beer off of the yeast that had settled in primary right into a keg. We didn't add priming sugar but followed some instructions we had on how to force carbonate. It's been sitting in our kegerator for almost a month at 30 psi. I checked it tonight and though we have a full head blowing out of the tap the beer is flat as can be. It tastes good (sweet) but doesn't seem carbonated at all. Is 3 weeks enough time to let it self-carbonate? I guess we'll wait longer to see.
 
Three weeks is plenty. At 30 psi it is too long. I find it hard to believe it is flat, assuming you did everything right. I usually just set it at serving pressure and wait a week or two. It is usually acceptable in a week and perfect within two.

Turn the pressure down to serving pressure and pour a couple pints. Maybe the speed/force of serving made it flat.

Are you sure the right valves are open and the co2 is getting to the beer? It just doesn't make sense that it is completely flat.
 
Thanks for the feedback Adam. We figured it should be carb'd up by now as well. This recipe has been the ultimate battle from the get-go. We are getting really close on just scrapping this batch and starting over. Every other recipe has been spot on so far.

We have a corny keg that is new to us but is in good condition. I replaced the gaskets and it appears to be holding pressure (I'm assuming at 30 psi for 3 weeks we would have drained the CO2 tank by now). This is the first beer that has gone in it. I made sure the lines were connected to the correct valves (in versus out). When I just lowered the pressure I could smell the beer from the relief valve on our CO2 tank (near the pressure dial).

I'm going to pour a couple of pints right now. Nothing like a honey ale breakfast before work.....
 
Holy Jesus, don't leave it that long at 30 psi. It will turn out like soda (or even more carbed)

Turn it down to 11 or 12 psi and let it sit to carbonate. It probably tastes flat because you are blowing all the C02 out through the massive amount of foam. At this point you might have to degas the keg over the course of a few days and recarbonate at the proper psi.
 
I appreciate your help as well Jwood. I turned it down to 12 psi this morning and plan on letting it sit in the kegerator for the next few days and then check on it. What is the proper temperature I should have it at right now and how do you degas?

Thanks for answering my noob questions.
 
32-38 F whatever you want.

Disconnect the gas, vent pressure with the valve on top, wait a few hours (overnight), vent again, repeat until it doesn't vent anymore.

Then set at 12psi and let it sit.

You definitely overcarbed it.
 
Thanks! Even after sitting today at 12psi (actually more like 11) I poured a pint and it was not only less foamy it seems to be carbing. Thanks for everyone's input!

Regarding the taste, after all of that turmoil and re-working on the fly, it actually tastes great! It definitely has the honey scent on the nose and is a sweet tasting beer. Very smooth. I offered a taste to my mother-in-law (the official taste-tester ;)) and she really liked it. It has a little ways to go carbonation-wise (obviously) but the taste has mellowed out and going to be a great spring/summer brew, if it makes it that long.

Thanks again for your help Adam. You were a huge help!

We are digging this new-found hobby of ours. We currently have 2 batches in the bottle (conditioning) and two batches in primary. We are going to brew 2 more over the next week. You would think that we would have beer pouring out of every cupboard and shelf but all of our friends and family members keep helping themselves. But we've invited that and welcome it!
 

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