Help with bottle cleaning problem

[coolharry]

I've had this problem a least three times over the past two years and it has ruined about 5 cases of bottles so far. I soak them to clean and de label and when I go to rinse them, I discover a white film that will not come off. It's almost as if the bottles have been etched during the soak. Granted it only happens when the bottles soak longer than 24 hours, but not every time they soak that long. I've tried everything to save the bottles. Soaking in star San, soaking in vinegar, run through the dishwasher, scrubbing with a green scouring pad. Nothing works.
It first showed up with oxyclean free, then with sun oxygen cleaner, and now with my sun/tsp 90 mix.
I'm planning on ditching the oxyclean and taking the hit to my wallet and getting real PBW. But I wanted to check with the collective knowledge here first and see if anyone has run into this before and if there's a way to prevent it from happening in the future, or possibly saving this round from the recycling bin.
I'm not sure if the attached pic does it justice, but here's what I'm dealing with.

 

[pernox]

What are you soaking them in? Vessel, not chemical. Stainless steel, plastic, etc...

 

[AlCophile]

Only on the necks? If so, I suspect residue from upper label. Do you scrounge the bottles, like I do? Lotsa surprises!
Push cometa shove, fill bottles with mild dish soap, and immerse outsides in stronger stuff, since only beer has contacted the insides. This should give you some time.
Try different pHs, ie., weak acid like vinegar, weak base like dilute lye, naphtha.

 

[BrewChem]

I use Oxyclean in hot water in a cooler as step 1 in bottle prep and have never run into this..! I let them soak overnight and have even forgotten and left them in the cooler for upto a week. Could it be residual adhesive from the labels..? How 'hard' is the water you're using..? Do you let the oxyclean solution dry on the bottles or rinse them as soon as they come out..?

 

[coolharry]

I'm soaking in a plastic tub from Walmart now. Like the ones you'd use to keep a 1/2 barrel chilled for a party. But it's happened with food grade white pails too.
Its the worst on the necks but that was the only place I could get the camera to pick up the issue. All these bottles were de labeled months ago and filled with my brews and just emptied on thanksgiving, so there were no labels on this round.

 

[coolharry]

I haven't had my water tested, but according to the city it's low in everything. I just started messing with my brewing water and was told in the brewing science forum its fairly close to RO. And they get rinsed right after getting pulled from the tub.

 

[Epimetheus]

Beats me.

--- edit Is your water very hard? - no, I just read the post ---

I have soaked in Oxyclean, or some other oxy-brand composed of sodium percarbonate, for several days and no problems. I was going to say it was an alkaline film until you mentioned you used vinegar which should have dissolved it. The only think I can suggest is it may be label residue; some of those glues stick like whale snot. Try Goo Gone on one bottle and see if it helps.

 

[coolharry]

They felt almost sandy when I grabbed them still underwater. Or like it had been sandblasted. I've had some pretty stubborn labels/glue before, but those never felt anything like this.

 

[Epimetheus]

PBW substitute - 70% sodium percarbonate (store brand oxy-stuff), 30% sodium metasilicate (TSP 90, not plain TSP) This was found on several homebrew forums.

 

[n240sxguy]

I'm glad I saw this thread. I have some bottles that I accidentally let soak for a couple weeks, instead of a day or two, in oxyclean. I've been trying to find something to take the deposits off my bottles. I've tried rinsing and soaking in water. I was gonna talk to the lab guy at work and see how strong of an acid he recommends to remove it.

 

[Epimetheus]

They felt almost sandy when I grabbed them still underwater. Or like it had been sandblasted. I've had some pretty stubborn labels/glue before, but those never felt anything like this.

sandy - sandblasted - that certainly seems like they were etched, not gunked up with label residue. What if you did a control group, soak off the labels in plain hot water from the tap?

 

[coolharry]

Going through my process again in my head it occurred to me that I don't really know how much oxy to use and have always just kinda guessed. This last time I remember using two scoops to what was probably 12-15 gallons of water. Am I maybe just using too much and getting too strong of a solution?

 

[bleme]

I got that when I forgot my bottles in Oxy for a month. Star San for 3 days dissolved it though.

 

[n240sxguy]

I got that when I forgot my bottles in Oxy for a month. Star San for 3 days dissolved it though.

good to know