Help with BIAB Saison

[Eschaton_YDAU]

I based this off of a "Hoppy French Saison" recipe from The Mad Fermentationist: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/hoppy-french-saison.html

I don't actually want it to be too hoppy, though.

Here are the ingredients for a 3.5 gallon BIAB batch:

6 lbs. Belgian Pilsner Malt
1 lb. Canada Wheat Malt
2 oz. Czech Saaz (AA 3.2%)

Mash 80 min. @ 148
Sparge
90 min. boil

Est. OG - 1.052
Wyeast 3711PC French Saison

My questions are, what should the hop schedule be? Again, I'm not looking to create a hop-forward saison, despite where I got the grain/hops bill.

I was thinking:
1 oz. at 60 min.
.5 oz. at 10 min.
.5 oz. at 0 min.

That should give me 22 IBUs, which I think is fine for the style. Any thoughts?

And does the rest of this recipe seem plausible? This is my first all-grain BIAB brew day, and I decided to (sort of) design the recipe myself. We'll see how it goes.

Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[snowveil]

Recipe looks pretty good to me. For a saison, keep it simple...let the yeast do the work.

The only changes I'd consider making are

a) toss a little simple sugar in the boil (last 10 minutes) to ensure it dries out completely. 3711 is a beast and will probably dry it out anyway, but a little simple sugar can help. Maybe start with 8oz.

b) If you have soft water, or are using RO/spring water, toss a few oz of acid malt in there. 3-4oz should be good. It won't directly affect flavor in the form of sourness, but it'll keep the pH from climbing too high during the mash.

Saison yeasts like it warm, but make sure you start low and let it rise. Don't listen to the nonsense that people on here will spout about "You have to get that yeast into the 80's." Start your fermentation in the mid-high sixties, then let it climb from there. This time of year (depending on where you live), you may need to supplement heat to keep the temperature up. I usually finish mine out in the mid-seventies. If it climbs higher, fine, but don't stress out if it doesn't. The trick is just to not let the temperature climb high then fall back down again unless the yeast is finished.

Expect a low final gravity... I've had 3711 take a beer down to 1.000. With the recipe, mash temp, and yeast you're using, don't be surprised if you get to 1.002-1.006.

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Recipe looks pretty good to me. For a saison, keep it simple...let the yeast do the work.

The only changes I'd consider making are

a) toss a little simple sugar in the boil (last 10 minutes) to ensure it dries out completely. 3711 is a beast and will probably dry it out anyway, but a little simple sugar can help. Maybe start with 8oz.

b) If you have soft water, or are using RO/spring water, toss a few oz of acid malt in there. 3-4oz should be good. It won't directly affect flavor in the form of sourness, but it'll keep the pH from climbing too high during the mash.

Saison yeasts like it warm, but make sure you start low and let it rise. Don't listen to the nonsense that people on here will spout about "You have to get that yeast into the 80's." Start your fermentation in the mid-high sixties, then let it climb from there. This time of year (depending on where you live), you may need to supplement heat to keep the temperature up. I usually finish mine out in the mid-seventies. If it climbs higher, fine, but don't stress out if it doesn't. The trick is just to not let the temperature climb high then fall back down again unless the yeast is finished.

Expect a low final gravity... I've had 3711 take a beer down to 1.000. With the recipe, mash temp, and yeast you're using, don't be surprised if you get to 1.002-1.006.

Thank you!

I don't have access to acid malt. Would adding some, say, ascorbic acid (vitamin C) accomplish some of the same idea?

And the hop schedule looks ok?

 

[treehousebrewing]

The hop schedule looks pretty good for 3 gallons, although the flameout addition will result in some hop aroma. If you're really trying to avoid front-palate hoppiness, I'd recommend moving that up to 5 minutes or something. A few more IBU won't really be noticeable in that regard. IMO czech saaz is very soft and delicate anyway so if I were brewing this I'd go ahead and leave that flameout addition alone.

I've never used ascorbic for mash pH adjustment but it looks like the internet says it's ok. Just tread lightly.

 

[snowveil]

Personally, I wouldn't mess with acidification directly unless you've got a pH meter. If you can't get acidulated malt I just wouldn't really worry about it. It's really going to depend on your water profile to be honest.

IIRC a thin mash (BIAB) will prevent the pH from climbing as much as a traditional batch or fly sparging method, but don't quote me on that!

I'd roll with the recipe you have as it is. Very similar to the saisons I've made in the past and have been personally happy with and complimented on from my brew club.

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Personally, I wouldn't mess with acidification directly unless you've got a pH meter. If you can't get acidulated malt I just wouldn't really worry about it. It's really going to depend on your water profile to be honest.

IIRC a thin mash (BIAB) will prevent the pH from climbing as much as a traditional batch or fly sparging method, but don't quote me on that!

I'd roll with the recipe you have as it is. Very similar to the saisons I've made in the past and have been personally happy with and complimented on from my brew club.

Good to know! Thanks.

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Thanks everyone for the input!

Just pulled the trigger on it. Mashing right now.

 

[snowveil]

Right on! Check back to let us know how it turns out

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

Right on! Check back to let us know how it turns out

Update:

Ended up with less than I thought I would - probably 2.7 gallons (didn't measure...)

The 90 min. boil really took a bunch out. And the whirlfloc tablet (had never used one before) seemed to drop a lot of sediment, so I lost a lot to trub.

Before the boil (maybe 4 or so gallons - I need to make on of those sticks with marks to measure), gravity was about 1.043, after the boil it was high 1.062 because of the evaporative loss. I think in the future I'll let the grain drip into what's left of the sparge water during the boil, and add it as the volume decreases (or do a shorter boil).

Is it terrible practice to top-off or dilute? With the gravity I ended at, I could probably have upped the volume at one point or another.

Anyway, the wort tasted great, so there's that.

The other good news is, I found out that my bare-bones BIAB setup can easily handle 7 pounds of grain, probably significantly more - will have to factor that info in and get more next time, and shoot for maybe 4 or even 5 gallons with some dilution/top off.

It's bubbling away! Will probably start gradually warming it tomorrow.

I'll keep you updated!