help to chose new equipment

[rlprafa]

Hi All!

Here is my story: I have brewed all grain for a long period. The equipment I was used to use had from gas burners, conical fermenter to dedicated fridge. I had to sell everything because I was moving to another country (Canada).

And now I am settle up and want to get back to brew. The problem is my building's amount of regulations. I can't use a propane burner. I can't use anything that consumes more than 15 amps. And my stove (glass top electric), that thing will never boil 20 liters (my goal).

The first thing I thought was spending (a lot) more money and buy a grainfather but the whole setup would cost something around 3.5K and this is too much for me (including the fermenter and the glycol tank), and even if was kin to spend this much money, the equipment is 220V and my apartment is 110.

Yeah, my life sucks. =(

I want to do a kind of brainstorm. Is there anyone else in the same situation? what you guys are using?

So what I need is to go electric. I am thinking in use sous vide (problems with caramelization, maybe?) to the mashing and a turkey fryer(or something like that) to boil but still have no much idea about fermentation.

Since I want to use a conical and control the temperature, maybe the maybe the fermentassaurus and brewJacket immersion-pro, but I am not really sure if this brewjacket will work as they say.

I don't want to spend lots of money, but I also want to control as much as possible to assure the final quality.

What do you guys think? any thoughts, or better ideas?

Cheers, and thanks!

 

[cod3ck]

If you're stuck with 110 but want the juice of 220, why not use 2 heating elements, each running on a different 110 circuit?

This may not be apples-to-apples, but I'll bet it's pretty close! [emoji482]

 

[rlprafa]

If you're stuck with 110 but want the juice of 220, why not use 2 heating elements, each running on a different 110 circuit?

This may not be apples-to-apples, but I'll bet it's pretty close! [emoji482]

I don't actually want the juice of 220. It is just a constraint to me to use the grainfather.

But the idea is good. Independent of the solution I came with to boil, two elements will speed things up.

I just hope not to start a fire. hehe

 

[Totally]

It is my understanding that all of the US/Canadian Grainfather are 1600W at 120V putting them under your 15Amp limit.
http://www.everwoodavebrewshop.com/product-p/ebs-grainfather-new.htm

There are also other 120V electric systems from other vendors.

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/stor...tric-Wort-Hog-5-Gallon-BIAB-120V-269p4647.htm

https://brausupply.com/collections/...oss-automated-brew-system?variant=28776346192

Just a few ideas to think about.

 

[madscientist451]

Hi All!

my stove (glass top electric), that thing will never boil 20 liters (my goal).



Yeah, my life sucks. =(

Hey, if you have money and spare time to devote to home brewing, life is good, very very far from sucking.
Lots of people use their kitchen stove for brewing. Your stove runs on 220V and will have a more powerful heating element than any 110v system you can buy. Hopefully, your kitchen has an exhaust fan over the stove, and that is useful to carry away the steam from boiling.
I use a cheapo 6 gallon pot and usually brew smaller batches than 5 gallons, although I can brew the full 5 gallon size by using 3 gallon side pot and then combining the wort after about 1/2 hour.
I don't actually recommend a 6 gallon pot, its too easy to have boil overs. I'll be getting a tall 8 gallon pot with a 1.2:1 height to diameter ratio very soon.
If your tap water is really cold, measure out your strike water the day before and let it sit out and come up to room temperature, it will then heat up a little faster. I run the wort out of my cooler mash tun into the kettle and put that on the stove while the batch sparge is going on. It doesn't seem to take too long to come to a boil.
You don't have to make 20L batches, 4 gallons or about 16 liters is still plenty of beer.
I'm just trying to say there is a way to make wort without spending lots of money on an electric system. Getting a small freezer for temperature controlled fermentation would be a better use of your resources.

 

[rlprafa]

It is my understanding that all of the US/Canadian Grainfather are 1600W at 120V putting them under your 15Amp limit.
http://www.everwoodavebrewshop.com/product-p/ebs-grainfather-new.htm

There are also other 120V electric systems from other vendors.

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/stor...tric-Wort-Hog-5-Gallon-BIAB-120V-269p4647.htm

https://brausupply.com/collections/...oss-automated-brew-system?variant=28776346192

About the grainfather, after your message I just realized that what they sell here is different from what they have in their website (from NZ).

And thanks for the unibrau recommendation. I will definitely take a look at this. The price is good (need to check ir someone is selling in Canada or how much would cost to import) and it looks a lot more robust than the highgravitybrew.

Thanks.

 

[rlprafa]

Your stove runs on 220V and will have a more powerful heating element than any 110v system you can buy. Hopefully, your kitchen has an exhaust fan over the stove, and that is useful to carry away the steam from boiling.
I use a cheapo 6 gallon pot and usually brew smaller batches than 5 gallons, although I can brew the full 5 gallon size by using 3 gallon side pot and then combining the wort after about 1/2 hour.
I don't actually recommend a 6 gallon pot, its too easy to have boil overs. I'll be getting a tall 8 gallon pot with a 1.2:1 height to diameter ratio very soon.
If your tap water is really cold, measure out your strike water the day before and let it sit out and come up to room temperature, it will then heat up a little faster. I run the wort out of my cooler mash tun into the kettle and put that on the stove while the batch sparge is going on. It doesn't seem to take too long to come to a boil.
You don't have to make 20L batches, 4 gallons or about 16 liters is still plenty of beer.
I'm just trying to say there is a way to make wort without spending lots of money on an electric system. Getting a small freezer for temperature controlled fermentation would be a better use of your resources.

I will need to check about the stove, but since all fuses in the apartment are 15 amps, and also the fact that it takes between 15 to 20 minutes to barely boil 5 liters of water I think it will take too long.

But thanks for your suggestion, I will consider doing smaller batches.

 

[Totally]

And thanks for the unibrau recommendation. I will definitely take a look at this. The price is good (need to check ir someone is selling in Canada or how much would cost to import) and it looks a lot more robust than the highgravitybrew.

Thanks.

brausupply who make the unibrau are actually a Canadian company in Vancouver, BC. They list everything in US since that is likely their biggest market, maybe drop them a line to find out about pricing and shipping inside Canada.

 

[kh54s10]

Look at the Grainfather and other electric units carefully. One sight that I just looked at said you need 20 amps with a GFCI for the Grainfather.

 

[LarMoeCur]

Does your apartment have a washer and dryer in the units? If so a very good extension cord from the dryer outlet will get you the 220v you need. If no dryer. I'd build a heat stick or two and use it in conjunction with the stovetop. The key would be to find different circuits for each unit. The stove is for sure on it's own circuit. All the outlets in the kitchen will be GFI and together. You may have to get creative to run two heat sticks and the stove. Like using the garbage disposal outlet or maybe he dishwasher one.

Be careful the if you run a cord from another room it will most likely not be GFI and your sticking electrical thingamajigs in to liquids. Be safe!

 

[rlprafa]

I didn't knew about the 20 amps with a GFCI requirement to use the grainfather or any other electric system.

And to be honest, I didn't knew what was a GFCI until you guys mention it. I will check when I get home but I think there's no such a plug in my kitchen. The only place I've seen it was in the washroom.

 

[Totally]

It can sometimes be in the panel as well on the breakers but if your house was built in Canada before 2008 you may not find GFCI in the kitchen as it was not a requirement before then.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I didn't knew about the 20 amps with a GFCI requirement to use the grainfather or any other electric system.

And to be honest, I didn't knew what was a GFCI until you guys mention it. I will check when I get home but I think there's no such a plug in my kitchen. The only place I've seen it was in the washroom.

When in doubt, build one. You can the parts for ~$20 US and probably about the same Canadian. A simply junction box, extension cord, and GFCI outlet is all you need. It will save your life.

I am generally confused on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are looking for temperature controlled fermentation, a mini-fridge, carboy, and temp controller are a heck of a lot cheaper than even a budget conical. Personally I put a conical pretty far down my brewing wishlist.

From a brewing perspective, the easiest thing to do might be to find a club, make some friends, and share gear/space. If you were in Chicago, I would say "keggles are in the garage, drop a sixer in the beer fridge, and clean up when you are done."

If you are limited to your own apartment with only 15 amp breakers, then using your stove plus a heat stick (on a GFCI-protected line) should be enough to handle 20L. If not, then two heat sticks are more than enough - just make sure they are on separate breakers. All of which should be a lot cheaper than a Grainfather and a conical.

 

[rlprafa]

Just a quick update on that grainfather electrical requirement thing:

I contacted people from Toronto brewing to check about the minimum amps for the grainfather and they told me that grainfather will pull almost 15 amps on its own, so it's better to not have anything in the same circuit, otherwise I will burn some fuses.

about the GFCI outlet, I definitely don't have one in my kitchen, so I will probably buy/build an adapter for that.

So part of my decision is made I am going with the grainfather. Although it is a little expensive I will not have to concern about electrical DIY (it is not my thing) and a big mess to clean/store (makes wife happy. hehe).

On the fermentation side, I will probably buy a small used fridge (~5 cu. ft.), plug a temperature controller and throw some small conical there. Maybe the catalyst because it is small enough to fit on a small fridge and I don't need to deal with transfers/secondary.


Since I don't want to bottle, I will probably buy some kegs and soak it into a small kegerator (I dream with that )!

Budget will be something around 2.5K (a little more if necessary).

Once I start buying stuff and brew my first batch I will post some pictures here.

Thanks guys!

 

[augiedoggy]

maybe just replace the wall outlet in your kitchen with the newer gfci type... if you have a ground in your outlet box it should be a direct swap as it was in my house...

 

[rlprafa]

I will check that. The thing is I am too afraid to touch in electrical stuff. Basically the building (apart from the structure and external) is made of paper/wood and the risk of fire scares me a lot.

But I will open the socket to check, and will try to find the "shut everything down" before doing any kind of change. will probably be a risk free operation (I hope.)

 

[brieuxster]

I am not an electrician. Many homes in Canada have a split plugs in the kitchen counter. This means you could have two circuits on your kitchen plugs. So if you were to plug in a kettle and an electric fry pan each would be on a separate breaker within your apartment. They may share this circuit with a plug across the room. This means you would need to modify the plug before it is installed.

 

[baulz]

I will check that. The thing is I am too afraid to touch in electrical stuff. Basically the building (apart from the structure and external) is made of paper/wood and the risk of fire scares me a lot.

But I will open the socket to check, and will try to find the "shut everything down" before doing any kind of change. will probably be a risk free operation (I hope.)

You could try asking your landlord to upgrade the kitchen to GFCI outlets, just don't say it's for brewing beer.

 

[rlprafa]

Just a quick update:

I discovered That my kitchen has 220V. Although it is hidden behind the counter tops. In order to get access to it I would need to disassemble part of it. Wife didn't like it. hehe

So grainfather it is. I bought it last weekend and give it a try (with just water).

I am pretty happy with it. Bellow I will write my opinion about it.

The box is a little heavy, I was thinking in buy and get home by subway. Im possible, it is bulky and heavy. At least it is really well packed.


First impressions and assembly:

In general, the quality and finishing are really good, but the controller doesn't fit well. I was afraid to put too much pressure and break something, so I loose all 4 screws in the handle and added the controller, then tight the screws again.

The false bottom on the grain basket is a pain in the ass. It took me almost 40 minutes to put it in place, because that silicon ring that involves it tends to get of.

Testing:
As I said before, I ran it with just water to see how it works, if I wouldn't burn some fuses, etc. It works really good and fortunately it didn't burn a fuse, so, quick win. =)

I ran it twice and both times with 23L of tap water. The first time without the grain coat and the second time with it.

The first time the water was at 19 degrees celsius and the goal was bring it to 67.

temperature difference: 48º
degree/minute: 1.063º
From 67º to boil: 33º
degree/minute: 1.24º

The chiller performance was quite impressive in my opinion. I was recirculating the water because I didn't have a bucket or something like that to store water and the cooling time was: 27 minutes to decrease the temperature to 28º. The down side was 28 seems to be the limit. I might have to use a pre-chiller or wait for more time to cool the wort.

Now the test with the graincoat (the starting point was 28º and the end 67º):
temperature difference: 39º
degree/minute: 1.026º
From 67º to boil: 33º
degree/minute: 1.15º

As you can see, the coat doesn't make much difference, at least not for indoors. The biggest difference might be how many times the heating element turns on. I will wait the next time and will keep an eye on that, but my first impression is that the coat is a waste of money.

The app(android) looks good and works well, although I saw some bad reviews when people use older phones, specifically android.

Hope you guys enjoyed the quick review.

Now I am just waiting to get a used fridge to control the fermentation temperature and start brewing.

Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

brausupply who make the unibrau are actually a Canadian company in Vancouver, BC. They list everything in US since that is likely their biggest market, maybe drop them a line to find out about pricing and shipping inside Canada.

Does anyone else find it odd that a company wouldnt advertise their products for sale in their own country? I know some of Canadas electrical codes and requirements are different and I wonder if it might have anything to do with it?

 

[BWingate]

Does anyone else find it odd that a company wouldnt advertise their products for sale in their own country? I know some of Canadas electrical codes and requirements are different and I wonder if it might have anything to do with it?

It is possible that since their demand is mostly from the US that the warehouse is in the US too - to save on shipping, taxes and customs

 

[augiedoggy]

It is possible that since their demand is mostly from the US that the warehouse is in the US too - to save on shipping, taxes and customs

ok so since they "assemble" all thier own systems then It would be safe to say (if thats true) that since the work is done in the US too so they would be a Canadian owned but american based company with operations here at that point..
Just struck me as odd since there are a lot of canadian home brewers as well.

 

[Totally]

ok so since they "assemble" all thier own systems then It would be safe to say (if thats true) that since the work is done in the US too so they would be a Canadian owned but american based company with operations here at that point..
Just struck me as odd since there are a lot of canadian home brewers as well.

From their FAQ it appears as though they assemble and ship from their Canadian location. They are a Canadian company that focuses mostly on US sales as that would clearly be a much larger customer base.

https://brausupply.com/pages/frequently-asked-questions

 

[augiedoggy]

From their FAQ it appears as though they assemble and ship from their Canadian location. They are a Canadian company that focuses mostly on US sales as that would clearly be a much larger customer base.

https://brausupply.com/pages/frequently-asked-questions

Well there you go then. Do you own or work there I see your from the same area?

Back to my original thought then... Seems weird they dont sell in their own back yard and only advertise out of the country..It SHOULD be easier and more lucrative for them to sell to both. Honestly what does this "focus" entail? They can advertise to both here and all it would take would be to offer pricing conversion on their site or have a clone Canadian site with different pricing. There has to be some other reason why they dont advertise their business or product in their own country. I see Canadians complaining here of homebrewing supply availability all the time. It seems silly to not provide the service where its actually needed more as well when its your own backyard?

I spent most of this week up in Canada myself at my employers manufacturing facilities and we sell all over the world. I do know some of the machines that we import to Canada have to have certain components changed out and replaced to meet local codes which are not required in the US which raises our costs on that product. So maybe its just easier for them to export them since whos checking at that point? The FAQ says no one has been charged any duties or taxes yet? So are they all being sold as homemade gifts to avoid them? And are they still liable for an issue if thats the case? .. I just think these are questions worth asking.

 

[Bigalsworth]

Well there you go then. Do you own or work there I see your from the same area?

Back to my original thought then... Seems weird they dont sell in their own back yard and only advertise out of the country..It SHOULD be easier and more lucrative for them to sell to both. Honestly what does this "focus" entail? They can advertise to both here and all it would take would be to offer pricing conversion on their site or have a clone Canadian site with different pricing. There has to be some other reason why they dont advertise their business or product in their own country. I see Canadians complaining here of homebrewing supply availability all the time. It seems silly to not provide the service where its actually needed more as well when its your own backyard?

I spent most of this week up in Canada myself at my employers manufacturing facilities and we sell all over the world. I do know some of the machines that we import to Canada have to have certain components changed out and replaced to meet local codes which are not required in the US which raises our costs on that product. So maybe its just easier for them to export them since whos checking at that point? The FAQ says no one has been charged any duties or taxes yet? So are they all being sold as homemade gifts to avoid them? And are they still liable for an issue if thats the case? .. I just think these are questions worth asking.

Welcome to Canada, this is just how it is for us lol. Many companies focus in USA because they want markets of millions instead of thousands. Shipping is very expensive in Canada, you will rarely find free shipping and that reduces possible clients due to cost, cheaper for me to buy locally if I can (in my province I usually can't get anything local). A lot of the time it is cheaper for me to order something in the US and have it shipped for free to the border and then go and pick it up.

If it is manufactured in Canada there are no duties due to NAFTA. When I buy online, taxes for my province are calculated by the time I checkout.

 

[Totally]

Haha no I do not work there, just aware of them since I started looking into electric builds. They came up easily along with the others when starting my research and I noticed they were Canadian. It is not an uncommon business practice here to list in USD and target that market, not strange to us at all.

I am surprised that people in Canada would complain of homebrew supplies, there are many local and national suppliers here across the country. OBK comes to mind as the large national that anyone can use, large supply, great prices and low or free shipping depending on cart size.

Anyways, not trying to argue or anything. Just trying to answer some questions that were coming up.

I hope we all find what we are looking for to brew great beer!