HELP - starting gravity way too low!!

[ArizonaGoalie]

This has never happened to me before. My measured gravity after boil and cool and before pitching yeast was 1.039. It should have been 1.060 or higher. I've brewed this recipe over and over with great results. Double checked temps. Had two thermometers.

Two possible theories:
1. Old grain. I ordered it online.
2. Did my mash tun lose heat? It was a 60 minute mash, followed by a 10 minute batch sparge. I did not measure the temp at the end of the mash. But it seemed normal.

Any other thoughts?

Here was my recipe:
6# 2-row
1# white wheat
1.5# flaked oats

60 minute mash @ 151.8
10 minute batch sparge (sparge water was 176)
30 minute boil

I do not measure gravity before boil (not sure how to do that)

TIA for your advice/help/suggestions/thoughts.

 

[Skeeter686]

What's your batch size? That doesn't seem like a 5-gallon batch at 1.060.

 

[sibelman]

A few thoughts:

• this is speedy brewing: fast sparge, short boil.
• I'm not sure why you expect 1.060 from 8.5 lbs of grains, except your statement about previous batches.
• Knowing your post-boil volume is key. Without that, no clue.
• Measuring pre-boil gravity is no mystery. Cool some wort, measure away!
• You haven't said how you measure gravity.
• Poor crush reduces efficiency.

More info needed.

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

Yeah, sorry, left out a major detail. This is a 3 gallon batch.
Mashed in with 3 gallons, sparged with 2 gallons.
Definitely NOT a 5 gallon batch

 

[mac_1103]

This is a 3 gallon batch.
Mashed in with 3 gallons, sparged with 2 gallons.

So you lost two full gallons to grain absorption and boil off? With 8.5 lbs of grain and a 30 minute boil?

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

So you lost two full gallons to grain absorption and boil off? With 8.5 lbs of grain and a 30 minute boil?

Uh....I guess so. Final product was about 3.5 gallons. Once I do a couple rounds of dry hopping and rack to a keg without allowing any of the trub in, I get 3 gallons.

 

[mac_1103]

Final product was about 3.5 gallons. Once I do a couple rounds of dry hopping and rack to a keg without allowing any of the trub in, I get 3 gallons.

Well, 1.5 gallons is still a lot to lose with that much grain and that short a boil. 3.5 gallons of 1.039 wort from that grain bill is about 45% brewhouse efficiency. 3.0 gallons obviously would be even lower (and even higher volume loss). What about your system? Mash tun? BIAB? AIO?

 

[SFC Rudy]

My LHBS closed almost two years ago and I’m still using grain I bought then. I still make my numbers, so old grain is not your problem.

 

[Brewdog80]

Grain for sure isn't bad unless you can smell it. Keep cool dry and it can go years. Measurements may be. You sure you don't have 4 gallons in the fermenter? Just sayin. Otherwise, your grind is bad, mash temp wrong,

 

[mac_1103]

My LHBS closed almost two years ago and I’m still using grain I bought then. I still make my numbers, so old grain is not your problem.

Grain for sure isn't bad unless you can smell it. Keep cool dry and it can go years.

Crushed grain probably shouldn't be kept for years. But I think that's just because the beer wouldn't be very good, not because you couldn't still hit your targets with it.

 

[mac_1103]

You sure you don't have 4 gallons in the fermenter?

Efficiency would still be only 50%.

Really hard to guess what went wrong without knowing anything about OP's system.

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

Using a mash tun - converted cooler.

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm skeptical on your volumes, sorry. Boiling off a gallon or 1.5 gallons in 30 minutes is a REALLY hardcore vigorous boil. I suppose it's possible but it might be that your volume is off and so the numbers might make sense.

I also didn't see how you measured. You mentioned not knowing how to measure before boil - it's the same as you do after the boil, exactly the same. What are you using to get your #'s?

 

[jcaggiano]

I see this died but curious what the findings ended up being.

I have a different situation with a blonde where the yeast blend (001 & 029 lagged and ripped for 3 days but still smells sweet from the airlock).

Any info may help put me in the right direction.

 

[tracer bullet]

If it ripped for 3 days it's probably done. Any smells mean very little, you'd have to measure to see what's reality for gravity.

 

[doug293cz]

this is speedy brewing: fast sparge, short boil.

OP batch sparged. Sparge time is not critical for batch sparging. What is important is that the mash is stirred aggressively after the sparge water is added to make sure all of the sugar is rinsed off of the grits and into the sparge wort.

Brew on

 

[jcaggiano]

OP batch sparged. Sparge time is not critical for batch sparging. What is important is that the mash is stirred aggressively after the sparge water is added to make sure all of the sugar is rinsed off of the grits and into the sparge wort.

Brew on

Agreed on this. I pull a gallon off before my mash and then I do a sparge on my BIAB where after draining/squeezing the bag, I put it in a brew bucket, pour the remaining water (heated separately to anywhere between 150-160*f) over the grains, stir like hell. I again drain, squeeze and pour back into the wort from the initial mash.

Maybe or not it help to get more goodies but I like to do it.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I entered those numbers in Beersmith, and it predicted 1.045 for 3 gallons.

How did you measure the gravity?

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

It was bad grain. Did a second batch with the same shipment from internet brew shop. Same results. (I had ordered enough grain for 2 brews). Went over my notes and procedures. Befuddled.

Went to LHBS, same recipe. Brewed using exact same specifications. Back to normal. 1.065.

In the meantime, read a bunch of info on how the internet brew shop I had been using for years had hit hard times, closing all their brick and mortar locations, laying off staff, and running on fumes. I believe the grain I got was either old or not milled well or both. Regardless, I'm back to good.

 

[tracer bullet]

not milled well

Quite likely and easy to have happen.