HELP!! SSR smoked in middle of boil. Overide options?

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JONNYROTTEN

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Is there a way to override the SSR and finish off my boil?????

Full power is fine

TD4
30 amp
Terminal 1 smoked

Safe/jerry rig is fine to get me through
Oxymoron....I know
 
Your only real option would be to connect both load sides together. There is no way to force the SSR open.

If you have a spare SSR around, you could swap it real quick.
 
Yes you can jump across the high voltage terminals of the SSR. Either unscrew them and run a screw/nut to bond them, then wrap in tape, or if you have the supplies, make a quick jumper with 10AWG wire and two split terminals. Add the jumper across the screw terminals. Or better if you have the extra wire length, just move one to be on the same screw as the other.

Yes turn off the power first. Your beer might be slightly more bitter than intended if early on but no biggie.
 
BrunDog said:
Wait... ain't you the guy with continuous SSR troubles?
Click to expand...
It sure as hell seems that way!
I was doing fine for years with the same SSR (Fotek) Then I smoked an SSR about the same time my Aubrins pid went on the fritz. Then I ordered like 5 fotek SSR's And smoked a few of those.

Then I finally got everything going well for a while now with a new TD4 pid and another SSR.....until today

All connections seem tight. Any troubleshooting as to why I keep having issues lately would be welcome
 
When brew day is done, check for a loose neutral? I know nothing about e-brewing, but found this in some shoddy wiring by past homeowner in my old house, and caused stuff to intermittently fry upstream. It is a dangerous condition as well. Totally not qualified in this, so I'd discount my idea compared to others.
 
Tight connections and improper grounds are certainly common causes of issues. So you aren't off Tommydee.

SSRs are fairly sensitive pieces of equipment being solid state and all. I would suggest you buy a quality zero-cross 40A and call it good until proven otherwise. Way too many fakes out there. Maybe cut that bad-boy open and see if you can see the power IC model inside? If it's smoked it's likely not legible but it might be a worthwhile (aka fun gutting **** that wronged you)!
 
When I got it running last time with the ssr that just smoked I was surprised by how cool the heatsink was. I believe it began getting warmer and warmer over multiple brew sessions. This last time it was piping hot before it fried.
Does help in the diagnosis?
Would that be a loose wire issue?
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
When I got it running last time with the ssr that just smoked I was surprised by how cool the heatsink was. I believe it began getting warmer and warmer over multiple brew sessions. This last time it was piping hot before it fried.
Does help in the diagnosis?
Would that be a loose wire issue?
Click to expand...

You have something else likely causing the problem... as crappy as the fake foteks are I had no issues with mine..to go through 5 is just way to big of a coicidence. Perhaps you have some poor connections causing more resistance and things to heat up? arent you using a really long HF extension cord? whats the gauge of the wire? and are the plugs all rated for 30A..I would double check the connections on your plugs... see if anything is getting very warm... if your using 10awg it shouldnt be.
 
BrunDog said:
The heatsink should get warm but not stoopid hot. Bottom line is the SSR was crap. [emoji90]
Click to expand...
The thing is hes gone through multiple orders of them..like 5 or 6 now I think..
I have a few of these fake foteks as well as the mypin ssr I believe just failed on him... I havent shared his failures... I still have one of the 25a foteks in use now and the others are in my old panel and work fine as well... I believe theres something else wrong here. as crappy as the fotek clones are they are the most commonly used ssrs here... even Ebrew sold them for a while (rebranded) of course..
 
augiedoggy said:
You have something else likely causing the problem... as crappy as the fake foteks are I had no issues with mine..to go through 5 is just way to big of a coicidence. Perhaps you have some poor connections causing more resistance and things to heat up? arent you using a really long HF extension cord? whats the gauge of the wire? and are the plugs all rated for 30A..I would double check the connections on your plugs... see if anything is getting very warm... if your using 10awg it shouldnt be.
Click to expand...
Ya I run a 25 ft HF cord but its 10 GA and nothing gets the slight bit warm. I believe its in the box somewhere. I'm going to replace the #1 terminal line. Maybe theres some resistance in the line somewhere? Or not a meat in the buss bar?

The only other issues I've had was one SSR smoked after like 3/4 years, I'm OK with that.
Then I had odd ball issues I "believe" had something to do with a faualty PID
I wasn't getting power to the element with the light on with a new SSR
I had full power all the time
No power with out light on
Odd stuff like that.
I'd have to revisit my " I'm done with SSR's" to remember

So If I smoked another SSR are the only reasons loose wires/bad connections or a faulty SSR? Anything else I should look for?
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Ya I run a 25 ft HF cord but its 10 GA and nothing gets the slight bit warm. I believe its in the box somewhere. I'm going to replace the #1 terminal line. Maybe theres some resistance in the line somewhere? Or not a meat in the buss bar?

The only other issues I've had was one SSR smoked after like 3/4 years, I'm OK with that.
Then I had odd ball issues I "believe" had something to do with a faualty PID
I wasn't getting power to the element with the light on with a new SSR
I had full power all the time
No power with out light on
Odd stuff like that.
I'd have to revisit my " I'm done with SSR's" to remember

So If I smoked another SSR are the only reasons loose wires/bad connections or a faulty SSR? Anything else I should look for?
Click to expand...

I thought the point of "Im done with ssrs" was because you smoked multiple ssrs at that point? so the ssr was on but the led indicator wasnt? im not sure how thats possibly caused by the pid bad or not.

no sounds like you are on the right track... do you have a fan on your heatsink or is it on the outside of your enclosure?
 
augiedoggy said:
I thought the point of "Im done with ssrs" was because you smoked multiple ssrs at that point? so the ssr was on but the led indicator wasnt? im not sure how thats possibly caused by the pid bad or not.

no sounds like you are on the right track... do you have a fan on your heatsink or is it on the outside of your enclosure?
Click to expand...
No fan but its big and vertical on the outside of box an inch off my relatively cold hardwood floor with thermal paste
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
No fan but its big and vertical on the outside of box an inch off my relatively cold hardwood floor with thermal paste
Click to expand...

well if it really is only your second knock off fotek than odds are thats likely your problem... The internals of most of them use components that are really only rated for 10A.. Theres a couple threads as well as articles on them if you google them. (these fake foteks are sold in bulk for as little as 1/2 a cent each)

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60460906970.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.pfSuIa
 
augiedoggy said:
well if it really is only your second knock off fotek than thats likely your problem... The internals of most of them use components that are really only rated for 10A.. Theres a couple threads as well as articles on them if you google them. (these fake foteks are sold in bulk for as little as 1/2 a cent each)

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60460906970.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.pfSuIa
Click to expand...
I just went through the other thread. It looks like I bought 6 ssr's and only one worked. If I was having wiring issues I would think none would work or the first one would work until it fried from a loose connection. Reading my own words in the other threads it seems I was having the issues I mentioned here. No power to element with out light on type of thing but nothing melting
 
I have used the same Crydom SSRs in my system for over 8 years. My approach has always been to buy name brand industrial components for my panel. If you are patient, you can get quality stuff on Ebay for very reasonable prices. I have had good luck with used components - I have bought several used Omega PIDs with good results. I have had one malfunction after a number of years.
 
I ended up buying a brand new Crydom D2440 Shipped for $23. Not to bad. Hopefully it solves my ssr issues.

Crydom has different ssr's with different model numbers that look identical on the face 40 amp 3-32 Volt. Same shape too

Whats the difference between them?
 
What connectors are you guys using on the bigger wires on term 1/2. I used the ring connections but with the "c" shaped hold down I'm not sure if that's correct. I want this new SSR tight with no excuses that I did something wrong
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
What connectors are you guys using on the bigger wires on term 1/2. I used the ring connections but with the "c" shaped hold down I'm not sure if that's correct. I want this new SSR tight with no excuses that I did something wrong
Click to expand...

The yellow ones right? if so I use the same... Just make sure they are crimped well... you can tell if you have a problem since the wire and area will get very warm from the increased resistance of a poor connection.
 
augiedoggy said:
The yellow ones right? if so I use the same... Just make sure they are crimped well... you can tell if you have a problem since the wire and area will get very warm from the increased resistance of a poor connection.
Click to expand...
This is the yellow plastic you mean right? It had a ring not the prong type. This is after it fried and and moved the wires together. The wire was definitely hot. You can see the black on the wire and it smells like melting plastic....This is what I Never want to see again...Hopefully the Crydom works out...I just want "perfect connections" so I have no issues

20170308_115801_resized.jpg
 
Why are thier multiple wires connected there on the same terminal? Or is that after you moved them to finish brewing? There was definitely too much resistance going on there.
 
augiedoggy said:
Why are thier multiple wires connected there on the same terminal? Or is that after you moved them to finish brewing? There was definitely too much resistance going on there.
Click to expand...
This was after it Fried and rigged to finish brew day. Is there a way to test where the resistance started. Like working backwards to find the issue.
If only the one wire fried does it stand to reason somewhere on that line there was a loose connection...unless of course it was the SSR that smoked and cooked the line near the connection.
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
This was after it Fried and rigged to finish brew day. Is there a way to test where the resistance started. Like working backwards to find the issue.
If only the one wire fried does it stand to reason somewhere on that line there was a loose connection...unless of course it was the SSR that smoked and cooked the line near the connection.
Click to expand...

yeah I think the source of your issue very well could have been the ssr.. the fact that one connector looks good and im assuming the one going out to the element ? fried indicates it was the ssr or that particular connection that was the weakest point.
 
augiedoggy said:
yeah I think the source of your issue very well could have been the ssr.. the fact that one connector looks good and im assuming the one going out to the element ? fried indicates it was the ssr or that particular connection that was the weakest point.
Click to expand...
The wire/terminal that fried was the power in line.

The good terminal goes to a switch that goes to the element

The wire that fried was only hot at the last 3" on the SSR side. The rest of the wire and other connection at the buss bar was cool.

Nothing else in the entire control panel was even warm
 
I'm wondering if the surface of the heatsink or the base of the SSR aren't properly flat and when you clamped it down, the tension distorted the metal base of the SSR and created an gap between the internal components and the base and reduced heat transfer. I've seen crappy switchmode power supplies where the switching transistors were held against the "heatsink" base plates by the potting resin.

Machine shops skimming engine heads and blocks use something called engineer's blue to find high spots. Might be worth figuring something similar out before tightening the new SSR down onto the sink.
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Do the wires on the Crydom go to the same terminals as the Fotek?http://www.ebay.com/itm/122356475811?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Click to expand...

The crydoms connections are labeled in the picture. The ones labeled 240V output are for the main 240v power wires (it doesnt matter with goes where since its a relay switch) and the input wires are for the DC control from the pid... the #3 with the + sign would be the positive (my assumption here) and the #4 would be the negative wire.
 

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