Help on lagering!

[tdavisii]

I just brewed a extemely light American Lager. My very first time lagering.
5lbs 2 row
3lbs maize
8 oz 20L crystal
.25 tettnang at 60min
.25 tettnang at 30
Safelager dry yeast
I am new to the lagering thing. My plan is to ferment at 55F for two weeks and then walk down 2 degrees a day until 34F. Again this is my first time lagering and have read what i can and talked to the Home brew shop owner about it.

Feel free to critique and give your opinion as i would love to learn from all you more experienced brewers

 

[bradsul]

My first lager is still bubbling away in primary, but I would expect it to take more than 2 weeks for primary fermentation. Mine hit 3 weeks this past weekend at 50F and it still has about 6 or 7 points to go.

 

[tdavisii]

Holy cow! three weeks?? What did you brew? Hopefully since mine is sooooo lite that it will brew a little quicker. Shoot me your recipe i would like to see it.

 

[xamers]

I just brewed a extemely light American Lager. My very first time lagering.
5lbs 2 row
3lbs maize
8 oz 20L crystal
.25 tettnang at 60min
.25 tettnang at 30
Safelager dry yeast
I am new to the lagering thing. My plan is to ferment at 55F for two weeks and then walk down 2 degrees a day until 34F. Again this is my first time lagering and have read what i can and talked to the Home brew shop owner about it.

Feel free to critique and give your opinion as i would love to learn from all you more experienced brewers

I do mine differently. Ferment 2 or 3 weeks at 47-53 degrees depending on the yeast. Let it warm up to a little over 55-60 degrees for a day or two to clean up, then crash to 34 degrees to lager for weeks.

 

[bwitt]

Thats pretty close to my first lager that I brewed 3 weeks ago.

I did 6 lbs of 2 row and 2 lbs if flaked rice with cascade hops.

With S23 dry lager yeast I primaried at 50F and it was almost finished at 9 days. I then raised the temp to 60 for 48hrs for the diacytl rest. Over the next week I dropped the temp 3 degrees per day down to 35F.
I checked the gravity last night and it was 1.007 and tasted very clean.

I will rack it to another carboy tonight or tomorrow and leave it at 35 for at least 2 weeks maybe 4 if i can make myself wait that long.

 

[bradsul]

Holy cow! three weeks?? What did you brew? Hopefully since mine is sooooo lite that it will brew a little quicker. Shoot me your recipe i would like to see it.

Just 100% Vienna malt and an OG of 1.067 (I forgot to recalculate my efficiency for fly sparging, my batch sparge would have hit 1.057 which is what I wanted).

Made a 3L starter for my WLP830 yeast too.

 

[tdavisii]

I didnt make a starter. I wasnt planning on brewing today. I had the indgredients and the time so i jumped in. I hope it turns out.

 

[Yooper]

The one thing I noticed was that you didn't mention racking- don't forget to do the diacetyl rest (if you're doing one) on the primary yeast cake, but rack to the secondary before beginning the lagering.

Two weeks primary would be an absolute bare minimum- three to four would be better.

 

[tdavisii]

heres a question for you all. When doing the diacetyl rest. Im going to allow a rise to room temp for two days. Should i start my two degree walk down from from room temp. Or should i go back to 53 and start the walk down from there? What would the outcome be of both situations?

 

[srm775]

I'd give it a month in primary ... allow it to warm-up for a d-rest then lager at 40°F (or whatever temp you chose) for a couple of months.

 

[zstewart123]

for the diacetyl rest I raise the temp to 10 degrees above fermentation temps. For example I am lagering an American Lager now. I fermented at 50 deg x 4 weeks then increased the temp to 60 degrees for 2 days, racked into keg and am lagering at 33 degrees. Hope this helps.

 

[Medo]

Ahoy hoy,
I just did my first all grain pilsner last night. I used a half gallon starter of 2007 wyeast. Because up here in Alaska right now the daily temps are fluxing from 35 to 70, i tossed the carbouy into my temp controlled fridge and set it to 55. I was going to let it set at room temp for 24 hours like some have said to let the yeast get going, but it wasnt practical.
So, since ive never used a bottom fermenting yeast, will there be a foamy krausen head like my ales? or will the top stay clear, and the bubbler just mysteriously bubbles? What should I visually look for in a lager?
Thanks for any input
I bid you all a great day.
PS I like the idea of the cascade hops. I went with cluster and sterling for this first one so as not to vary from the recipe, but once its done and it worked, Ill try my favorite hops....

 

[WBC]

You should have started your own thread instead of posting your question in this thread. If you pitched enough yeast you should see a krausen on the first or second day.

 

[Medo]

Ahoy hoy,
Sorry didnt intend to hijack the thread, thought it would be bad form to post a 2nd lagering question when this one was already there and had been apparently answered. My bad

 

[tdavisii]

Can anyone tell me if the krausen appears to be different in a lager? This krausen appears to be not as foamy so to speak compared to my other brews.

 

[bradsul]

I've only done one so far so I can't speak with any real authority, but the krausen on mine was much less substantial than any of my ale fermentations.

 

[menschmaschine]

Can anyone tell me if the krausen appears to be different in a lager? This krausen appears to be not as foamy so to speak compared to my other brews.

Krausen is definitely less substantial in a typical lager fermentation compared to a typical ale fermentation. For example, I almost always get blow-off from my ale fermentations, but never had blow-off for a lager fermentation (I alternate every other batch- ale/lager).

EDIT: Just to add... I believe this is because ale yeasts are "top-fermenting" (more aerobic) and lager yeasts are "bottom-fermenting" (more anaerobic). This doesn't mean that ale yeasts are all the way at the top and lager yeasts are all the way at the bottom. It's more of a "more towards the top" vs. "more towards the bottom" type of thing.

 

[tdavisii]

Yeah mine seems to be a half inch layer of goo. I guess im saying its just a lot more dense where as my non lagered is foamy and light. I guess its as it should be. Thanks for the help.

 

[menschmaschine]

Yeah mine seems to be a half inch layer of goo. I guess im saying its just a lot more dense where as my non lagered is foamy and light. I guess its as it should be. Thanks for the help.

Sounds right! My lager krausens seem to be more defined, whiter, and with finer bubbles. They're almost "pretty" compared to the sloppy krausens of ales. (Hope that doesn't sound gay!)

 

[WBC]

You should see bits of yeast moving around in the beer if you have it in a carboy so you can see it. Relax, everything is normal. I lager mine in the serving fridge at 36F to 38F in corny kegs for 30 days or more. When it is ready I just connect the CO2 and wait for 5 days and it is mostly carbonated but better after 7 days of CO2. This makes lagers really easy.

 

[Kaiser]

Should i start my two degree walk down from from room temp. Or should i go back to 53 and start the walk down from there? What would the outcome be of both situations?

You don't need to "walk" down the temp when you let the beer finish fermenting/hold a warm diacetyl rest. The yeast is done and you don't need to preserve its activity. Simply crash to lagering after the diacetyl rest.

The lager kraeusen is generally smaller than the ale kraeusen. Mostly because lager fermentations are less active and produce CO2 at s slower rate. The ale yeast is also ending up in the Kraeusen, which makes it more stable and able to hold the CO2 better.

Kai

 

[menschmaschine]

You don't need to "walk" down the temp when you let the beer finish fermenting/hold a warm diacetyl rest. The yeast is done and you don't need to preserve its activity. Simply crash to lagering after the diacetyl rest.

I'm curious about this because I thought lager yeasts were still doing something during lagering. I guess I got this implication from Noonan's book. What that something is, I'm not sure... just cleaning things up in general (diacetyl, esters) and perhaps fermenting that minuscule amount of those few types of sugars that ale yeasts can't ferment. If this were true, wouldn't crashing to lagering temps, rather than gradually reducing temps, settle the yeast too soon? I'm not disagreeing, per se, just trying to learn.

 

[Kaiser]

Check out this section on lager maturation. It is based on the fermentation diagrams that I found in a presentation. I have also come across other fermentation diagrams that show the same thing: if you hold an warm diacetyl rest or extended primary fermentation that allows complete fermentation of the beer, you can crash to lagering.

Noonan, Palmer and others seems to mix the slow down-ramp requirement of the classic lager fermentation (only a week at primary temps and then slowly down to a diacetyl rest and then further down to lagering) with what is actually needed if an accelerated maturation (warm diacetyl rest/extended primary) is used. I know I’m going against popular home brewing literature here, but I’m fairly confident that what I’m saying is correct. Slowly ramping down won’t hurt, it’s just not necessary.

When I crash my yeast to lagering, I still see activity as I get a drop of about 0.1 Plato/month of lagering.

Kai

 

[tdavisii]

but is the flavor effected by this crash? Is it going to have as much of a crisp clean flavor if i drop from 60-65 to 34F? I was under the impression that the reason you walked it down is to allow the yeast to adjust. Crahing just puts the yeast to sleep and they drop out right?

 

[tdavisii]

Sounds right! My lager krausens seem to be more defined, whiter, and with finer bubbles. They're almost "pretty" compared to the sloppy krausens of ales. (Hope that doesn't sound gay!)

Its only gay if you use this krausen for lotion or other skin treatment:cross:

 

[Kaiser]

but is the flavor effected by this crash? Is it going to have as much of a crisp clean flavor if i drop from 60-65 to 34F?

I consider my lagers to have a clean and crisp flavor with this crashing. If this is not enough, Jamil also talks about crashing the beer after the 4 week primary that he proposes.

I have yet to make experiments that would try to expose flavor differences based on the temperature profile during fermentation.

Kai

 

[tdavisii]

I dont like this waiting thing. Im really impatient and this brew is bubbling every 5 seconds. I just want to bust it out and have a sip. I really hope its worth the wait.

 

[Bobby_M]

One thing is certain, lagering is only for brewers that have discipline to stay away from a beer for a while. I make sure I have a bunch of ales in vary stages prior to brewing a lager. I'd rather brew a fast ale and drink that than to choke down an lager that isn't ready.

 

[tdavisii]

A test of my brewing patience.

 

[WBC]

Brew some Hefe, it will be done before the lager.