HELP: Off flavour - Extract Twang?

[brewzombie]

Please HELP!!!

I'm trying to identify an off-flavor that is quite intense and present in all of my beers except the strongest IPA's. I thought it was my fermentation temperature at first, but it's still there even after regulating temperature.

The off-flavour:
- Medicinal (quinine/tonic water?), alcoholic, fruity
- Stays on the tongue a LONG time as bad after-taste

My Process:
- Recipes adapted from "Brewing Classic Styles", modified with Beersmith
- 2 L Yeast starters using fresh Wyeast smack-packs & Mr. Malty website
- 1/3 malt bill = Partial Mash in Cooler Mash-Tun (SS braid; built-in thermometer - 1 hr @ 68 C)
- 2/3 malt bill = pale liquid extract (LME)
- Partial Boil on stove top (16 L)
- Topped up with tap water to 23 L (not boiled, but uber-soft and delicious tasting)
- Fermented in a temp controlled water bath at 19 C for 1 month in plastic primary bucket [I always have good airlock activity by 10 hrs]
- Bottled with corn sugar (2/3 cup boiled 10 min in water and cooled)

My suspicions/solutions?:
- oxidized LME (extract twang)...I've recently switched to DME, but won't be able to taste the experiment for a month
- Boil the top-up water or use bottled water
- corn sugar?...I never really notice the bad taste when I taste it at bottling time...but definitely after carbonation

 

[jmo88]

Please HELP!!!

I'm trying to identify an off-flavor that is quite intense and present in all of my beers except the strongest IPA's.

The off-flavour:
- Medicinal, alcoholic, fruity
- Stays on the tongue a LONG time as bad after-taste

My Process:
- Recipes adapted from "Brewing Classic Styles", modified with Beersmith
- 2 L Yeast starters using fresh Wyeast smack-packs & Mr. Malty website
- Partial Mash in Cooler Mash-Tun (SS braid; built-in thermometer - 1 hr @ 68 C) for 1/3 of total malt bill
- 2/3 pale liquid extract (LME)
- Partial Boil on stove top (16 L)
- Topped up with tap water to 23 L (not boiled, but uber-soft and delicious tasting)
- Fermented in a temp controlled water bath at 19 C for 1 month in plastic primary bucket
- Bottled with corn sugar (2/3 cup boiled 10 min in water and cooled)

My suspicions/solutions?:
- oxidized LME (extract twang)...I've recently switched to DME, but won't be able to taste the experiment for a month
- Boil the top-up water or use bottled water
- corn sugar?...I never really notice the bad taste when I taste it at bottling time...but definitely after carbonation

How's the carbonation and head retention in these beers? Bottling infections happen more frequently than a lot of people think, this may be the case. Extract twang isn't going to be overpowering like you are experiencing.

 

[brewzombie]

How's the carbonation and head retention in these beers? Bottling infections happen more frequently than a lot of people think, this may be the case. Extract twang isn't going to be overpowering like you are experiencing.

The carbonation and head retention is great. I sterilize my bottles with starsan and rinse them right after use. I can't believe that I'm introducing an infection at the bottling stage.

To clarify the off-flavor, it's not undrinkable (except in a few cases), but obviously detectable, distinct and consistent between batches and in all bottles.

 

[troub]

What's your process after bottling? How long do you leave it before refrigerating, and then how long do you chill it before drinking?

I ask because my first two beers -- I tasted them all the time (gravity samples, bottling time, young bottles, etc.). After a week in the fermenter they both had very weird aftertaste. Terrible, actually. After a month in the fermenter, the stout tasted GREAT so I bottled it. A week in the bottle and it tasted terrible again. The aftertaste is going away now and is pretty much gone again after 3-4 weeks room temp conditioning and at least a few days in the fridge. My nut brown ale exhibited a similar pattern. I think it has to do with the yeast activity and the phenols they exude when they're actively working. It might even be the yeast themselves still in suspension -- though the young bottles I refrigerated aren't really getting better, leading me to believe the improvement in taste is from the yeast actually still working to clean up the fermentation by-products.

Long story short...however long you're leaving them to condition at room temp, try leaving them longer. The flavor I'm talking about is always hard for me to describe, but I think it's kind of like licking envelopes...somewhat medicinal I guess. Band-aid-y, in a way, but it's not chlorine/chloramine. It goes away, and I've become convinced it's just what they call "young beer."

 

[brewzombie]

What's your process after bottling? How long do you leave it before refrigerating, and then how long do you chill it before drinking?

Hmmm. I usually leave my bottles for 2 weeks and drink them over the next 2 weeks. The bottles are refrigerated for 24 hrs to a few days. I have some month-plus at room temp ones with the same badness. I can't believe that little amount of yeast from bottling produces that much off-flavor. It's true that I don't really notice it when tasting at bottling though...not sure what to think.

I started a new thread to discuss bottle conditioning:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/bottle-conditioning-necessary-223816/

 

[brewzombie]

My new thought is that my off-flavor may be due to chlorine/chloramide in the tap water I use for brewing. I will treat all of my brewing water (including top-up) with a campden tablet next batch and report back if there is any off-flavors.

My tap water ranges from 0.6 to 2.9 ppm chlorine. The mash and top-up do not use boiled water (which would have reduced the chlorine).