Help Me Fix My Black IPA - All Grain

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I made a batch of the Black IPA below based on the Right Brain Brewery Black IPA recipe published by BYO.

While I enjoyed it, I'm looking to change the following:

1. Replace the earthy and piney hops, with something more citrusy and increase hop aroma
2. Give it a more roasty flavor
3. Give it a fuller mouth-feel

2 Gallons
60 Minute Boil
60 Minute Mash @ 151°
Safale US-05 @ 63°

Ingredients (Scaled up to 5 Gallons from 2):

• 11.13# 2 Row
• 0.75# Crystal 40
• 1.25# Carafa 2 Special
• 0.25# Flaked Oats

• .75oz Summit @ 60
• .63oz Simcoe @ 30
• 1 oz Summit @ 15
• .94oz Simcoe @ 15
• .94oz Simcoe @ FO
• .75oz Summit @ FO

My thoughts:

• I plan on swapping out Summit and Simcoe for Columbus and Cascade, and dry-hopping for a week.
• To give a roast flavor, I was going to add some roasted barley, but don't know how much?
• For mouth feel, short of mashing at a higher temp, I was going to double the amount of flaked oats, but didn't know if I should add some rice hulls to avoid a stuck sparge?

Any thoughts/feedback are appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[atom]

I brew a black IPA called "black seas" which you guessed it...heavily features "C" hops. the recipe changes each time but the one i'm currently drinking was heavy on citra/cascade (with columbus and centennial joining the party). I like my black ipas with a little more body than a normal ipa...mash a bit higher...maybe 152 and add carapils. i don't typically use crystal in my ipas but i think a black ipa can benefit from a small amount of a medium crystal (5%ish). I don't want much roast in mine, but i did add a little pale chocolate (i think it was only like 1.5-2%). Most of the color comes from midnight wheat, which i use enough of to get it to about 31-33 SRM.

 

[benner7746]

You could also replace 8oz of Pale with a light Munich malt, which would increase body, without adding much sweetness.

I understand you want to increase the roast flavor, which is a very delicate balance with citrusy hops. Adding and additional 1oz of any husk-less roasted grain will get you there, without going overboard. Add it at the end of your mash to avoid any astringent notes.

I use late additions of centennial, cascade, and columbus in my black IPA. It is dank and can handle a heavier bodied beer.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I brew a black IPA called "black seas" which you guessed it...heavily features "C" hops. the recipe changes each time but the one i'm currently drinking was heavy on citra/cascade (with columbus and centennial joining the party). I like my black ipas with a little more body than a normal ipa...mash a bit higher...maybe 152 and add carapils. i don't typically use crystal in my ipas but i think a black ipa can benefit from a small amount of a medium crystal (5%ish). I don't want much roast in mine, but i did add a little pale chocolate (i think it was only like 1.5-2%). Most of the color comes from midnight wheat, which i use enough of to get it to about 31-33 SRM.

I didn't think about carapils. Good call!

The original clone called for midnight wheat, but the LBHS didn't have any and pointed me to Carafa 2. Besides the tweaks that I mentioned, I'm happy with how it turned out, so I don't want to go back to midnight wheat at the risk that I may not like the end result.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I understand you want to increase the roast flavor, which is a very delicate balance with citrusy hops. Adding and additional 1oz of any husk-less roasted grain will get you there, without going overboard. Add it at the end of your mash to avoid any astringent notes.

Apologies for the ignorance, but isn't Carafa 2 considered a husk-less roasted grain? If so are you saying to add another ounce (or perhaps another grain?), but at the end of the mash? And how long should it be added for?

 

[atom]

Apologies for the ignorance, but isn't Carafa 2 considered a husk-less roasted grain? If so are you saying to add another ounce (or perhaps another grain?), but at the end of the mash? And how long should it be added for?

possibly. there is carafa II and carafa II special. The "special" is the dehusked version. confusing naming, i know.

and i use either carafa III special or midnight wheat, depending on what i have on hand.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

possibly. there is carafa II and carafa II special. The "special" is the dehusked version. confusing naming, i know.

and i use either carafa III special or midnight wheat, depending on what i have on hand.

Thanks for clarifying. Just checked my order, I used Carafa 2 special.

 

[benner7746]

Weyermann Carafa II and III are all de-husked, the difference is in the SRM. What I intended and did not illustrate well was ADDING another ounce on top of your current grain bill. Putting in your dark grains at the end of the mash (mash out temp for about 10 minutes, either stirring or vorlauf the entire time) reduces the sharpness of any dark roasted grain, however the grains utilization is slightly lower, which is why adding another ounce will account for that. Midnight wheat (mentioned above) is another great grain. Use both 50/50 if you want to mix it up a bit.

My main point is that a heavy roasted flavor will ruin a back IPA if overdone, so small increases are my recommendation.

If you decide to go with piney hops, I add about a pound of rye to a 5 gal. batch to add some depth. Might not translate well with citrus forward hops. Good Luck!

 

[nick_a]

I've personally found that medium crystal (i.e. 40-60L) has a tendency to mute hop character somewhat, so in my IPA recipes I try to either eliminate it or sub out a much smaller portion of 75-80L, especially in a dark beer like this. I've had good luck with Carafa III special which does a much better job than II of making the beer black without adding a whole heap of harsh roast character. You could probably dial back the amount and achieve the same color as your original recipe. If you're really trying to go for a roast flavor, maybe try some pale chocolate? Like an ounce or two.

 

[TheHairyHop]

for the hops, you could use el dorado. I used comet and el dorado in a black ipa and it came out great

 

[chickypad]

Weyermann Carafa II and III are all de-husked, the difference is in the SRM. What I intended and did not illustrate well was ADDING another ounce on top of your current grain bill. Putting in your dark grains at the end of the mash (mash out temp for about 10 minutes, either stirring or vorlauf the entire time) reduces the sharpness of any dark roasted grain, however the grains utilization is slightly lower, which is why adding another ounce will account for that. Midnight wheat (mentioned above) is another great grain. Use both 50/50 if you want to mix it up a bit.

Just so we don't add to the confusion, that's not actually correct. They make 6 different carafa malts - carafa I, II, and III which are not dehusked and carafa special I, II , and III which are dehusked. You do have to be careful which you get, the regular non-dehusked ones are more like chocolate and black malt, and will give more roast.

weyermann roasted malts

The OP already has 20 oz of carafa special II, I really don't think bumping that to 21 oz is going to change the character. OP if you want roast I'd consider swapping 3-4 oz of the current for a non-debittered black malt. I agree you have to be careful about overshooting in black IPA's, but you have your baseline and that wasn't roasty enough for you. My only other thought is that columbus is pretty earthy and dank to me. If you want citrusy maybe consider centennial or amarillo in that spot.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

The OP already has 20 oz of carafa special II, I really don't think bumping that to 21 oz is going to change the character. OP if you want roast I'd consider swapping 3-4 oz of the current for a non-debittered black malt. I agree you have to be careful about overshooting in black IPA's, but you have your baseline and that wasn't roasty enough for you.

Recommendations for a non-debittered black malt?

 

[chickypad]

Any of the regular carafa's really (or the corresponding chocolate or black malt). Just be careful about overshooting. You may even want to drop the total - say use .75 lb of your debittered plus 4 oz of whatever you choose for a total 1 lb roasted malt.

 

[Ungoliant]

Run with the roasted malt, but keep increases to a minimum. Better to be conservative with roasted malts. Maybe consider some blackened barley, but less than 6 oz.

I'm on board with the hop swap, but maybe consider dry-hopping with some lemon drop or Citra.

You can bump your mash temps a hair to get more body, but I'd be interested to know what yeast you're using. If you're using a dry yeast like S-05, maybe consider a more London ale style yeast like Danstar Windsor or a liquid yeast equivalent. That, and I think you'd be safe to double the flaked oats.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

Run with the roasted malt, but keep increases to a minimum. Better to be conservative with roasted malts. Maybe consider some blackened barley, but less than 6 oz.

I'm on board with the hop swap, but maybe consider dry-hopping with some lemon drop or Citra.

You can bump your mash temps a hair to get more body, but I'd be interested to know what yeast you're using. If you're using a dry yeast like S-05, maybe consider a more London ale style yeast like Danstar Windsor or a liquid yeast equivalent. That, and I think you'd be safe to double the flaked oats.

I really hadn't considered swapping the yeast. That being said, I used S-05, but have 5 gallons of pale ale fermenting on some Danstar BRY-97 right now. In addition, I've got a clone of Surly Bitter Brewer on deck that uses Wyeast British Ale 2.

 

[Ungoliant]

I really hadn't considered swapping the yeast. That being said, I used S-05, but have 5 gallons of pale ale fermenting on some Danstar BRY-97 right now. In addition, I've got a clone of Surly Bitter Brewer on deck that uses Wyeast British Ale 2.

Yeah, the attenuation rate of the yeast you use can affect the body of your beer. S05 has a tendency to finish pretty dry (High attenuation). Something with a lower attenuation rate can give you better body to the beer. That being said, it can also be achievable with a higher mash temp and more flaked oats, but with this recipe I think it's a game of balance.