Help me figure out what when wrong!

[lilbova3]

So I sent a couple beers off for judging. I wanted to see what the judges were detecting since my last three IPAs have all come out very similar. The judges both found many esters, diacetyl and a slight alcoholic burn to my beer. Here's the recipe and vitals.

100% distilled water used
BIAB mashed at 149* for 60 mins
90 minute boil with a slow rolling boil
2.5 gallon batch size

7.33# 2 Row
.1# Carapils
.1# Crystal 10L
.2# Dextrose
.7 oz Warrior 16.5AA FWH
1 oz Nelson WP at 175 for 1 hr
4 oz Galaxy WP at 175 for 1 hr
1 oz Citra WP at 175 for 1 hr
2 oz Equinox WP at 175 for 1 hr

Ca: 127; Mg: 11; Na: 0; SO4: 277; Cl: 51
Mash pH: 5.4 (all this calculated via Bru'N)

OG: 1.062
FG: 1.008
Bottle carbed to 2.3 volumes/CO2

Transferred when wort was still around 95* to carboy to put in my fridge to cool the rest of the way. Aerated by shaking the carboy then pitched a whole pack of rehydrated US05 on 10/27 at a temp of 75*, a little high I know but per an exBEERiment that shouldn't be a huge issue. Fermented this bad boy at 59* ambient temperature, sticky thermometer read no higher than 62* during all active fermentation. I am not able to get a precise reading on the wort inside the carboy. Raised the ambient temp to 63* on day four and then on day five raised it to 68* to help attenuate properly. Temp was then held at 68* for two days. Bottled beer on 11/6, rushed a little maybe. The beer smelled and tasted fantastic before bottling. I wanted to try an IPA with lots of whirlpool additions and no dry hop and see what would come of it, that's why you see no dry hops for this IPA. Great color.

After bottle conditioning the beer did come out a little darker than I thought and I had been thinking it's due to oxidation, I thought I've been having issues with oxidation but was not marked off on the scoresheet for that.

So my question is, where could all these esters and slight alcohol burn come from with such a low fermentation temp?! I can understand the diacetyl since it fermented so low and I probably didn't leave it on the cake long enough to clean up.

-Couldn't be under pitching, I pitched a whole pack of US05 for a 2.5 gallon batch
-Could the fermentation temp really be getting that high and I don't know it since I have no thermometer in the beer?

Any ideas?

 

[lilbova3]

Infection maybe?

 

[jekeane]

I personally find the exBEERiments interesting and worth considering. However, I don't necessarily consider them to be close to conclusive.

05 is a beast and will get things rolling pretty quickly so pitching warmer could cause some esters and fusels in my opinion. Depending on how quickly the temperature dropped and where you were in fermentation you may have stressed the yeast.

The diacetyl could be a result of time but I would guess it is related to time plus the temperature being below 60.

When you say ambient what do you mean do you have a probe hanging in a fridge or are you talking room temperature? Fermometers, (sticky thermometers) are pretty inaccurate. They give you an average temperature of the outter most wort and the outside air temperature. So there is no telling what the actual temp of your beer during active fermentation. If you are using room temperature and a fermometer.

 

[meatcleaver]

I've experienced some weird fruity (some say peachy) esters when fermenting with s-05 below 65°f.
not sure about the other issues...

 

[lilbova3]

I personally find the exBEERiments interesting and worth considering. However, I don't necessarily consider them to be close to conclusive.

05 is a beast and will get things rolling pretty quickly so pitching warmer could cause some esters and fusels in my opinion. Depending on how quickly the temperature dropped and where you were in fermentation you may have stressed the yeast.

The diacetyl could be a result of time but I would guess it is related to time plus the temperature being below 60.

When you say ambient what do you mean do you have a probe hanging in a fridge or are you talking room temperature? Fermometers, (sticky thermometers) are pretty inaccurate. They give you an average temperature of the outter most wort and the outside air temperature. So there is no telling what the actual temp of your beer during active fermentation. If you are using room temperature and a fermometer.

My probe is sitting in the fridge so it's grabbing the ambient temp of the fridge. I know the Fermometers aren't too accurate but give you an idea.

Maybe I need to go even lower with temp?
Make sure to pitch a little cooler too?

I didn't get any smell or taste when bottling which sucked. I might revisit bottling cleanliness and sanitation, possibly bite the bullet and buy new stuff since they are good pre-bottle and poor post bottle conditioning.

 

[jekeane]

Yeah I just have a hard time imagining it's a infection issue. Well it's certainly possible, I find that 99% of my beer issues come from fermentation. Either under or over pitching or temps being wonky. I would try a very simple clean recipe like the centennial blonde recipe on the forums and see what you find in the flavor profile. If I were going to replace something I would look at the bottling wand the hose from your bottling bucket and possibly the bottling bucket itself.. The only infections I have ever had have been from bottling wands.

Another thought, I have received some alcohol chemical flavors from not rinsing Oxyclean off my bottles properly.

 

[douglasbarbin]

This is most assuredly a fermentation issue.

 

[lilbova3]

Funny thing is I just started using my bottling wand and have bought new tubing recently. I'll probably replace the bottling bucket and go from there. Also try to give a better rinse I guess.

I guess I'll lower the fermentation temp more as well. Just don't want those guys to go dormant on me!

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Combination of probably two major factors.

High attenuation from the US05, the pitch temp and ferment temp were probably ok. US05 can dominate a wort though and burn through any residual sweetness, which isnt always a bad thing, but 1.008 is low for an IPA ends up excentuating the other issue.

That being really really high sulfate. If you can average 85% attenuation with US05 on your IPAs, you probably dont need your sulfate as high as 250+. If your finishing gravities were higher then the really high sulfate levels would contribute to the dry character you normally look for in an IPA. But high sulfate + high attenuation is sort of double down on dry character and you end up with the harsh alcohol character (since its not balanced with any maltiness). If we were talking about DIPA sized gravities and hopping, you probably need the higher sulfate since youll naturally have higher finishing gravities, but in a smaller American IPA the low finishing gravity will give you a good enough hop-pop (of course keep your chloride/sulfate balance in favor of bitter/hoppy but I really think 277 is really really really high for your beer if you are finishing at 1.008).

 

[Gavin C]

My probe is sitting in the fridge so it's grabbing the ambient temp of the fridge.

These errors bear all the hallmarks of two things.

• Overly warm fermentation
• Unstable fermentation temperatures.

Tape the probe to the side of the FV and insulate it from ambient. This will address these two things.

Cost ~$0

Probe measures beer temperature and controls it to the set point +/- 0.3C

 

[lilbova3]

Combination of probably two major factors.



High attenuation from the US05, the pitch temp and ferment temp were probably ok. US05 can dominate a wort though and burn through any residual sweetness, which isnt always a bad thing, but 1.008 is low for an IPA ends up excentuating the other issue.



That being really really high sulfate. If you can average 85% attenuation with US05 on your IPAs, you probably dont need your sulfate as high as 250+. If your finishing gravities were higher then the really high sulfate levels would contribute to the dry character you normally look for in an IPA. But high sulfate + high attenuation is sort of double down on dry character and you end up with the harsh alcohol character (since its not balanced with any maltiness). If we were talking about DIPA sized gravities and hopping, you probably need the higher sulfate since youll naturally have higher finishing gravities, but in a smaller American IPA the low finishing gravity will give you a good enough hop-pop (of course keep your chloride/sulfate balance in favor of bitter/hoppy but I really think 277 is really really really high for your beer if you are finishing at 1.008).

Interesting to know.

The beers have had this residual sweetness maybe coming from the esters that were produced?

 

[m00ps]

you only fermented for 10 days? Im guessing the fermentation wasnt even finished. Id watch out for gusher bottles.

 

[lilbova3]

you only fermented for 10 days? Im guessing the fermentation wasnt even finished. Id watch out for gusher bottles.

No gushers yet, been bottled for over a month.

 

[PeteNMA]

You're pitching too hot for US-05. Yes, the brulosophy experiment is out there, but he was pitching a starter of WLP090 which is a different yeast, and also into a wort of ~1.050 against your 1.062. Also note that his fermentation temperature likely came down to his target of 64F within 4-8 hours, which is going to minimize production of off flavors during the yeast growth phase.

You are also fermenting US-05 too cool at that temperature. US-05 actually has a reputation for throwing off peachy esters in that temperature range. You should start the fermentation at about 64F. You can raise it to 68F after three-four days then raise it to 72F to make sure that the diacetyl gets cleared up.

 

[muels]

you only fermented for 10 days? Im guessing the fermentation wasnt even finished. Id watch out for gusher bottles.

Why wouldn't 10 days be enough?

 

[govner1]

If the fermentation isn't complete! There is no hard "rule" that any given time is enough.
The yeast works at its own pace & that is determined by numerous variables. The key is for the fermentation to be complete & you'll have steady SG afire several days.

 

[lowtones84]

I agree that it likely a fermentation issue, but if it tastes fine before bottling, it could be a bottling issue as well. Do you ever clean your bottles with pbw/a bottle brush? Even if rinse bottles out directly after use very well, you can sometimes end up with some fine, stubborn sediment. I don't do it every time I bottle necessarily, but I still think it's a necessary operation for bottlers.

 

[muels]

If the fermentation isn't complete! There is no hard "rule" that any given time is enough.
The yeast works at its own pace & that is determined by numerous variables. The key is for the fermentation to be complete & you'll have steady SG afire several days.

His FG was 1.008.

 

[TheMadKing]

My money is on time. Diacetyl, fusal alcohols, and excessive esters are all characteristics of a green beer or a stressed yeast. It sounds to me like you just rushed it. The yeast needs time to clean up all those byproducts.. Like ~14 days time.

Fermentation may be complete when gravity readings stabilize, but the yeast are still active and metabolizing things until they flucculate.

Also 7.33lb of 2 row in a 2.5 gallon batch and only 1.062 OG?

Something seems wrong to me, without actually doing the math of course haha. I've used that amount in 5 gallon batches for moderate gravity beers.

 

[lilbova3]

I agree that it likely a fermentation issue, but if it tastes fine before bottling, it could be a bottling issue as well. Do you ever clean your bottles with pbw/a bottle brush? Even if rinse bottles out directly after use very well, you can sometimes end up with some fine, stubborn sediment. I don't do it every time I bottle necessarily, but I still think it's a necessary operation for bottlers.

I cleaned all bottles previously with an OxyClean Free soak. After I use the bottles I give a thorough rinse and air dry. StarSan them on bottling day. I thought this could be the issue so a couple of brews ago I cleaned all bottles with OxyClean, rinsed and then used StarSan before bottling and no difference.

I feel my bottling technique is efficient but maybe not.

 

[lilbova3]

My money is on time. Diacetyl, fusal alcohols, and excessive esters are all characteristics of a green beer or a stressed yeast. It sounds to me like you just rushed it. The yeast needs time to clean up all those byproducts.. Like ~14 days time.

Fermentation may be complete when gravity readings stabilize, but the yeast are still active and metabolizing things until they flucculate.

Also 7.33lb of 2 row in a 2.5 gallon batch and only 1.062 OG?

Something seems wrong to me, without actually doing the math of course haha. I've used that amount in 5 gallon batches for moderate gravity beers.

I BIAB as stated above in my first post. Efficiency isn't the greatest.

I'm giving it a go again Thursday after work and going to make sure to pitch a little cooler this time and get back into the routine of being more patient.

 

[TheMadKing]

I BIAB as stated above in my first post. Efficiency isn't the greatest.

I'm giving it a go again Thursday after work and going to make sure to pitch a little cooler this time and get back into the routine of being more patient.

I BIAB too and rarely dip below 70%

I mash for 90 mins and hang the bag over the boil kettle for the entire boil, or squeeze it until I can't get anything out