Help me choose what equipment to buy...$100 budget

[rtracer]

So I have 6 brews under my belt in the very short time I have been brewing.
Started with the Morebeer starter kit with the 8 gallon kettle. After 4 extract brews I have moved to BIAB.
Recently had a bday and got some money for home brew equipment.

I BIAB in a keggle
I have three carboys
2 immerrsion chillers
I keg my beer

Thinking of getting an O2 stone thing.($60)

I was also thinking about maybe getting a pump to try and have some sort of recirculating system and sparge the bag while draining, this would also enable me to whirlpool post boil.(over budget ~$200)

Anything anyone suggests over this or in addition?

Fermentation chamber is on the horizon and not included in this buy.

 

[troglodytes]

If the ferm chamber is in your future anyway I'll take it off the list, but that was the number one thing that has helped me in brewing, and when you can find a craigslist chest freezer the price is minimal.

You didn't mention any yeast equipment, so I would say start with a 2L Erlenmeyer (or 5L if you make large beers) and a stir plate. I'd go with Stir Starters. The quality is decent, they have awesome warranties, I think the best bang for your buck.

You'll probably have enough money left over in your budget to make your own O2 wand for short money. I made this one with pex instead of a stainless wand and it's done wonders for my big beers.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=456899

 

[HopHeavy]

You didn't mention any yeast equipment, so I would say start with a 2L Erlenmeyer (or 5L if you make large beers) and a stir plate.

I'll second improving yeast health... After realizing one should keep fermentation temps under control, the most significant improvement to my beer has been stir plate yeast starters.

 

[beergolf]

IMO I would get these in this order.

1) Fermentation chamber
2) Stir plate
3) Oxygen wand/ system.

The Fermentation chamber to control ferm temps is the best thing you can do towards making better beer. A stir plate is great for making starters, but you can make starters without one. Just shake your starter everytime you walk by. A stir plate is much more efficient and much easier. The oxygen wand is good and made a small difference in my beers, especially bigger beers. I would definitely do the other two first for bigger jumps in beer quality.

 

[Aristotelian]

I would save the money and put it toward the ferm chamber. No point in the O2 stone unless you have reason to believe lack of O2 is a problem.

 

[JonM]

Keep an eye on Northern Brewer - they often have "Buy and X, Get a Free Y!" sales. You might be able to get a pump with a free set of stainless QDs (like I got) or get a stir plate and a free whatever.

 

[btbnl]

Since, like me, you're in drought-stricken California (one average year's snow notwithstanding), you might want to consider going no-chill to save all the immersion chiller water. These containers
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=31615&catid=459
are the best I've found. You can even use them as fermenters too (though the head-space gets a bit tight for bigger beers, so a blow-off tube is recommended).

Also, if you've got a keggle and an 8G kettle you can do 10G batches (requiring ~15G water) by mashing in 10G in the keggle and dunk-sparging in the other 5G in the kettle. Depending on space and inclination, you could then add a second burner and/or a brewstand (designing and building your own out of strut
http://www.strutchannelfittings.com/
is cheap and a lot of fun).

 

[55x11]

Since, like me, you're in drought-stricken California (one average year's snow notwithstanding), you might want to consider going no-chill to save all the immersion chiller water.

These containers
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=31615&catid=459
are the best I've found. You can even use them as fermenters too (though the head-space gets a bit tight for bigger beers, so a blow-off tube is recommended).

good idea! do you know what temperature they are rated for?

you can make a stirplate yourself for $10 or so. I would use a basic 3-4L plastic pitcher with flat bottom that can be used for other things (maybe another $5-10), no need for Erlenmeyer flasks (difficult to store or clean).

fermentation chamber is one area I would invest into. You can get ~$100 chest freezer on craigslist.

Another one is scaling up your kegging capacity maybe? do you have dual regulator (good for force carbing some beers while keeping others on serving pressure). Nitro stout faucet?

Would you consider scaling up to 10G batches? Then you need new kettle and maybe mashtun as BIAB could be difficult with ~30lbs of grain (becomes 40+lbs once wet).

 

[btbnl]

good idea! do you know what temperature they are rated for?

I'm not sure of the exact number, but certainly above 212F. They're fine for boiling wort (in fact, that helps sterilize them - just a quick roll once they're full and you're golden).

Would you consider scaling up to 10G batches? Then you need new kettle and maybe mashtun as BIAB could be difficult with ~30lbs of grain (becomes 40+lbs once wet).

As noted above, using the 8G kettle for a dunk sparge makes 10G BIAB a breeze; a hoist really helps with moving the bag, but that can be as easy as a step-ladder and pulley.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I would say your doing it reverse.I would spend the money now on a ferm chamber and Inkbird temp controller and worry about other things later.I would skip the 02 altogether.Im still on the fence if it even does much good.You could always get a $3 paint stirrer at home depot for 02.I BIAB and don't use a pump and find no need for one.You don't mention your equipment,if you don't have a grain mill you should spend your money on that.It will pay for itself buying bulk.I believe the Cereal Killer is on sale right now for exactly $100

 

[Cyclman]

+1 Temp control, then yeast propagation / oxygenation. With a Craig'slist find, you can do temp control for < $100.

 

[55x11]

I'm not sure of the exact number, but certainly above 212F. They're fine for boiling wort (in fact, that helps sterilize them - just a quick roll once they're full and you're golden).



As noted above, using the 8G kettle for a dunk sparge makes 10G BIAB a breeze; a hoist really helps with moving the bag, but that can be as easy as a step-ladder and pulley.

Ok, sorry to hi-jack and re-direct the thread, but I am curious (and I think it's a great idea for my next "investment") - how would you transfer the boiling hot wort into the container? Plastic tubing is no good, I would assume.


8G kettle for 10G BIAB - you mean you end up with 6G of wort in the end? Or do you dilute? I am not sure which part you reference from above.

[Edit: I got you - I guess you make two separate batches of wort, sort of like 1st running and 2nd running and then combine the two later for the boil?]

 

[55x11]

+1 Temp control, then yeast propagation / oxygenation. With a Craig'slist find, you can do temp control for < $100.

Agreed.
it makes me wonder what are the key essentials (and priority / what order to buy) if one wants to make decent beer.

For "sweet spot" (best balance of price/time/effort/benefit/quality, whatever that means), if I were to currently go into brewing, I would start with the following:

philosophy:
forget extract, go into whole grain
5G is a sweet spot. 1 or 2 or 3G - too small. 10G - maybe a bit too much for starer.
PET 6G fermenters - I do use glass, stainless and PET fermenters, but PET is the sweet spot, in my opinion
No oxygenation (for basic level)
No special water treatment (for basic level)
No kegging (for basic level)

Then the equipment could be simple: (prices from memory)
10G boiling kettle ($60)
mashtun made from 72qt Coleman cooler ($60)
Wort chiller (even though no-chill option is even better) - ($50)
6G fermenter $30 x2 (may need two of them if you brew often)
burner $50
airlock(s), bung(s), tubing, thief, auto-siphon, $30
hydrometer+jar or refractometer $20
bottling bucket+bottling wand $30
bottle washer $15
Capper $20
caps $5

Total: about $400.

You can probably get it lower by getting rid of mashtun (go BIAB), wort chiller, bottle washer and even bottling bucket (and only use one fermenter), but I like this combination, as removing each of those items makes your life more complicated/restricted than I would like for the price saved.

if I were to keep adding, I would say homemade stirplate ($20), fermentation chamber ($100 for used freezer and $30 for temperature controller), pitcher for yeast starters ($10), electronic scale ($10).

That's another $200 there.

Fermentation chamber can double as fridge for serving/cooling/cellaring beers when not used for fermentation - but... it's a gateway into kegging. And getting a dedicated keg fridge. And getting taps. Multiple taps for multiple kegs. And the equipment takes off from there and on and on.

 

[FatDragon]

Ok, sorry to hi-jack and re-direct the thread, but I am curious (and I think it's a great idea for my next "investment") - how would you transfer the boiling hot wort into the container? Plastic tubing is no good, I would assume.


8G kettle for 10G BIAB - you mean you end up with 6G of wort in the end? Or do you dilute? I am not sure which part you reference from above.

[Edit: I got you - I guess you make two separate batches of wort, sort of like 1st running and 2nd running and then combine the two later for the boil?]

Silicone tubing works for boiling temperatures.

I don't think you got it with the 10G BIAB. The keggle (a half-barrel - 15 gallon - keg converted to a brew kettle) is the main vessel in that setup, while the 8G kettle is just a secondary vessel for doing a dunk sparge of the grain bag in order to collect enough pre-boil wort for a ten gallon batch, which would be boiled in the keggle.

 

[55x11]

Silicone tubing works for boiling temperatures.

I don't think you got it with the 10G BIAB. The keggle (a half-barrel - 15 gallon - keg converted to a brew kettle) is the main vessel in that setup, while the 8G kettle is just a secondary vessel for doing a dunk sparge of the grain bag in order to collect enough pre-boil wort for a ten gallon batch, which would be boiled in the keggle.

I thought silicone might work -thanks.

I got your idea - keggle is 1st running equivalent of mashtun, and 8G kettle is 2nd runnings equivalent in mashtun, then you combine the two for boil

 

[55x11]

Silicone tubing works for boiling temperatures.

I don't think you got it with the 10G BIAB. The keggle (a half-barrel - 15 gallon - keg converted to a brew kettle) is the main vessel in that setup, while the 8G kettle is just a secondary vessel for doing a dunk sparge of the grain bag in order to collect enough pre-boil wort for a ten gallon batch, which would be boiled in the keggle.

I have another question for no-chill. Why not just use a keg? Fill with hot beer, seal it up, done. Next day, transfer into fermenter (or ferment in the keg if you like). Hot beer won't be in direct contact with rubber gaskets so it should be ok I would think. Even then, the perfect seal is not needed. I have a keg that won't seal anymore and may try this next time.

 

[rtracer]

IMO I would get these in this order.

1) Fermentation chamber
2) Stir plate
3) Oxygen wand/ system.

The Fermentation chamber to control ferm temps is the best thing you can do towards making better beer. A stir plate is great for making starters, but you can make starters without one. Just shake your starter everytime you walk by. A stir plate is much more efficient and much easier. The oxygen wand is good and made a small difference in my beers, especially bigger beers. I would definitely do the other two first for bigger jumps in beer quality.

The fermentation chamber is on my list at the top, but separate from the suggestions I was looking for as I have been watching CL for a couple weeks trying to find the right freezer...getting frustrated that most perople want $300 for a 10 year old freezer. I think I want to get a standup freezer due to the smaller footprint. I already have the inkbird...just waiting for the right buy.

I would save the money and put it toward the ferm chamber. No point in the O2 stone unless you have reason to believe lack of O2 is a problem.

I was given over $100 in morebeer gift cards
I think I am going to buy a yeast starter kit and O2 wand.



you can make a stirplate yourself for $10 or so. I would use a basic 3-4L plastic pitcher with flat bottom that can be used for other things (maybe another $5-10), no need for Erlenmeyer flasks (difficult to store or clean).

Oh, maybe I will have to look into that. Still need to do further research into the yeast starter method...Can you elaborate?

fermentation chamber is one area I would invest into. You can get ~$100 chest freezer on craigslist.

Been searching for a while

Another one is scaling up your kegging capacity maybe? do you have dual regulator (good for force carbing some beers while keeping others on serving pressure). Nitro stout faucet?

Three tap tower, cooled with a dual regulator. One regulator is split into two, so yes I can force carb and serve at the same time. I own 4 kegs

Would you consider scaling up to 10G batches? Then you need new kettle and maybe mashtun as BIAB could be difficult with ~30lbs of grain (becomes 40+lbs once wet).[/QUOTE]

Yes, I want to try and move up to 10 gallon batched for my house beers. I plan on having a house Pale Ale and IPA with a rotating beer for my third tap. I have a 15 gallon keggle and an 8 gallon kettle so I will try batch sparging...I guess thats what its called. I already bought a couple ratchet pully things I plan on mounting to the ceiling of my garage where I brew

I would say your doing it reverse.I would spend the money now on a ferm chamber and Inkbird temp controller and worry about other things later.I would skip the 02 altogether.Im still on the fence if it even does much good.You could always get a $3 paint stirrer at home depot for 02.I BIAB and don't use a pump and find no need for one.You don't mention your equipment,if you don't have a grain mill you should spend your money on that.It will pay for itself buying bulk.I believe the Cereal Killer is on sale right now for exactly $100

Already have the inkbird, waiting on the right deal on a standup freezer that doesnt have the cooling lines in the shelves

+1 Temp control, then yeast propagation / oxygenation. With a Craig'slist find, you can do temp control for < $100.

That is now my plan

Thanks for all the ideas guys!

 

[btbnl]

I have another question for no-chill. Why not just use a keg? Fill with hot beer, seal it up, done. Next day, transfer into fermenter (or ferment in the keg if you like). Hot beer won't be in direct contact with rubber gaskets so it should be ok I would think. Even then, the perfect seal is not needed. I have a keg that won't seal anymore and may try this next time.

Ideally you want a container that holds a seal (to keep airborne nasties out) but can deal with the volume reduction as the wort cools. HDPE deforms, metal buckles.

 

[55x11]

Ideally you want a container that holds a seal (to keep airborne nasties out) but can deal with the volume reduction as the wort cools. HDPE deforms, metal buckles.

I am not as concerned about it, but one could always use:

or

 

[btbnl]

You can certainly use an airlock, but there's no guarantee that what you're sucking in has been sterilized in any way. If you're not concerned about infection you can also just cover their kettle and drain it the next day.

 

[dyqik]

The only thing you suck in with a properly filled airlock is air. Use StarSan as the fluid, and you are probably sanitizing any particles come along for the ride

 

[FatDragon]

The only thing you suck in with a properly filled airlock is air. Use StarSan as the fluid, and you are probably sanitizing any particles come along for the ride

Is that actually true, though? Everything I've heard and experienced has indicated that when an airlock goes to negative pressure, you suck airlock fluid into the vessel. On the scale of near-boiling wort going into a closed keg, there's going to be significant suckback. Even if you're not sucking fluid in through the airlock you're still sucking air into the keg (unless it's sealed up in which case it buckles as was mentioned earlier), which puts you at risk of an infection. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure bubbling through some starsan isn't going to "sanitize" the air so any microbes that float in are infection risks. Might as well just loosely cover the opening with sanitized foil and have nothing to worry about on the "suckback" front.

As to the earlier question of "why not no-chill in a keg?" The thing that came first to mind for me is that you're limiting yourself to five gallons of wort. In my case, I target 6 gallons into the fermenter to get five gallons of finished beer (I take the trub and all into the fermenter, but even if you only take the clear wort you'll still need roughly 5.5 gallons in to get 5 gallons out). If you typically only get five gallons into your ferementer, that's not an issue, but it's a distinct limitation.

 

[55x11]

Is that actually true, though? Everything I've heard and experienced has indicated that when an airlock goes to negative pressure, you suck airlock fluid into the vessel. On the scale of near-boiling wort going into a closed keg, there's going to be significant suckback. Even if you're not sucking fluid in through the airlock you're still sucking air into the keg (unless it's sealed up in which case it buckles as was mentioned earlier), which puts you at risk of an infection. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure bubbling through some starsan isn't going to "sanitize" the air so any microbes that float in are infection risks. Might as well just loosely cover the opening with sanitized foil and have nothing to worry about on the "suckback" front.

As to the earlier question of "why not no-chill in a keg?" The thing that came first to mind for me is that you're limiting yourself to five gallons of wort. In my case, I target 6 gallons into the fermenter to get five gallons of finished beer (I take the trub and all into the fermenter, but even if you only take the clear wort you'll still need roughly 5.5 gallons in to get 5 gallons out). If you typically only get five gallons into your ferementer, that's not an issue, but it's a distinct limitation.

With regular three piece airlock you will end up sucking liquid in, but not with S-lock. Just look at the design and think through what happens when it bubbles.

I am not sure why everyone is so obsessed with "starsan air" going into the keg while the keg is cooling down to 70F or whatever the pitching temperature is.

What do you think is in touch with your kettle the whole time you are chilling? What do you think is inside your fermentor after you transfer your wort into it? It's all AIR! full of those terrible microbes that you are so scared of.

So I still don't understand why having 5G of beer in a sealed keg with 0.5 G of air enclosed is any worse than having 5G or so of beer in a glass or plastic fermentor with 1G of air enclosed in it.

 

[FatDragon]

With regular three piece airlock you will end up sucking liquid in, but not with S-lock. Just look at the design and think through what happens when it bubbles.

I am not sure why everyone is so obsessed with "starsan air" going into the keg while the keg is cooling down to 70F or whatever the pitching temperature is.

What do you think is in touch with your kettle the whole time you are chilling? What do you think is inside your fermentor after you transfer your wort into it? It's all AIR! full of those terrible microbes that you are so scared of.

So I still don't understand why having 5G of beer in a sealed keg with 0.5 G of air enclosed is any worse than having 5G or so of beer in a glass or plastic fermentor with 1G of air enclosed in it.

Geez... I had an excellent response typed out and lost it when I hit submit and the page failed to load...

Here's the (hopefully) short version:

Once your wort drops to a certain temperature, it becomes vulnerable to infection from any of a number of microorganisms that want to eat sugars in the wort. Chilling quickly and pitching yeast minimizes the time your wort is vulnerable so that even if something does get in and start reproducing, the yeast you pitched out-compete it several million times over and the infection (which I've been told happens in literally every beer that is brewed) fails to take hold and you don't even know it was there. In no-chill, the wort is vulnerable for longer, so it's important to seal it off in a flexible, heat-resistant container so that it doesn't keep sucking in new air (and microbes) that might have enough time to gain a foothold and noticeably infect the beer.

Put a couple hundred mL of your next brewday's unpitched wort in a bowl on top of your fridge and wait for a few days. It'll be infected quickly and you'll see visible signs of infection or fermentation within a week, possibly much earlier. It might be mold or bacteria or yeast or all three, but it'll happen for sure. Actually, I forgot about the hydrometer sample of my oatmeal porter for a while and it fermented wild in the test tube. The yeast flocced out like a champ and there's a little pellicle up top that looks like lacto. I'm thinking about stepping it up into a liter of wort from my next brew and seeing if I might be able to get a nice house sour out of it.

Edit: I've also definitely had sanitizer sucked back through an S-Airlock. Yes, bubbles get through better than a three-piece, but sanitizer gets through too.

 

[55x11]

Geez... I had an excellent response typed out and lost it when I hit submit and the page failed to load...

Here's the (hopefully) short version:

Once your wort drops to a certain temperature, it becomes vulnerable to infection from any of a number of microorganisms that want to eat sugars in the wort. Chilling quickly and pitching yeast minimizes the time your wort is vulnerable so that even if something does get in and start reproducing, the yeast you pitched out-compete it several million times over and the infection (which I've been told happens in literally every beer that is brewed) fails to take hold and you don't even know it was there. In no-chill, the wort is vulnerable for longer, so it's important to seal it off in a flexible, heat-resistant container so that it doesn't keep sucking in new air (and microbes) that might have enough time to gain a foothold and noticeably infect the beer.

Put a couple hundred mL of your next brewday's unpitched wort in a bowl on top of your fridge and wait for a few days. It'll be infected quickly and you'll see visible signs of infection or fermentation within a week, possibly much earlier. It might be mold or bacteria or yeast or all three, but it'll happen for sure. Actually, I forgot about the hydrometer sample of my oatmeal porter for a while and it fermented wild in the test tube. The yeast flocced out like a champ and there's a little pellicle up top that looks like lacto. I'm thinking about stepping it up into a liter of wort from my next brew and seeing if I might be able to get a nice house sour out of it.

Edit: I've also definitely had sanitizer sucked back through an S-Airlock. Yes, bubbles get through better than a three-piece, but sanitizer gets through too.

Let me get this straight:

chilling under open air over 20 min, and then having your wort sit in air at 70F till yeast starts fermenting = is OK.

Chilling over 12 hours (no chill) with a quart or so of ambient air in some plastic container = also Ok.

Chilling over 12 hours, sealed but with increasing amount of air gradually run through starsan S-shaped airlock - totally gonna be infected.

You do realize you do have air with the same "airborne bacteria" in whatever method you choose for no-chill. With the keg you have an option of sealing better and running any air through airlock, whereas your air in whatever other container you use is going to be "dirty" in that sense.

If anyone is really that paranoid about bacteria, they can backfill with CO2 in a keg very easily as the beer shrinks in volume. But that's bonkers in my opinion.

 

[FatDragon]

Let me get this straight:

chilling under open air over 20 min, and then having your wort sit in air at 70F till yeast starts fermenting = is OK.

Chilling over 12 hours (no chill) with a quart or so of ambient air in some plastic container = also Ok.

Chilling over 12 hours, sealed but with increasing amount of air gradually run through starsan S-shaped airlock - totally gonna be infected.

You do realize you do have air with the same "airborne bacteria" in whatever method you choose for no-chill. With the keg you have an option of sealing better and running any air through airlock, whereas your air in whatever other container you use is going to be "dirty" in that sense.

If anyone is really that paranoid about bacteria, they can backfill with CO2 in a keg very easily as the beer shrinks in volume. But that's bonkers in my opinion.

Good lord, it happened again. If you value your internet connection, don't ever move to China.

Simple and dirty rewrite (again):

Everything in this post and the previous one is my layman's opinion.

Microbes sealed in with near-boiling wort = pasteurized.

Microbes sucked into container with cooling wort = not pasteurized.

Air going into the container with chilling wort = more potential infection vectors = greater risk of infection.

No air going into the container with chilling wort = fewer potential infection vectors = less risk of infection.

Decreasing risk of infection = good.

Sealing no-chill container = good.

I suspect you're actually on to something with the CO2 suggestion, though. If you filled the headspace in the no-chill keg with a couple atmospheres of clean CO2 and sealed off the keg, wouldn't the pressurized CO2 just expand to fill the space as the cooling wort shrinks? If the CO2 doesn't go into solution too quickly, it seems like this would be a way to avoid the potential problem of a sealed keg buckling as the hot wort cools down.