HELP!!! Barleywine recepie......

[Grimsawyer]

Been goofin with a recepie for my barley wine. What I want is a 11-13% beer with about 70-85 IBU's and a finishing gravity of .030 -.035 and an SRM of about 14-17. It's going to be an extract batch with about 6 1/2 lbs of specialty grains which I will steep. While playing with the recepie calculator I've noticed when I add more sugar to the recepie the IBU's go down. With a boil volume of 3.5 gal with 21 lbs of light malt extract (in a tub, I get them in 7 lb containers for 16 bucks, great deal for extract!!!) all my grains in a 6 gallon batch I get:

OG: 1.121
FG: 1.030
IBU: 45
SRM: 14
ABV: 11.7

ok, thats GREAT... all but the IBU. I'm afraid with that IBU the drink would be overly sweet and very unballanced, it will be on the verge of just that at 70-85... but here's something curious. I drop 2 7lb tubs out of the recepie and the IBU's go from 45 up to 71... Is this because the larger amount of sugar actually prevents the efficency of the bittering of the hops or is it just simply the sugar displacing the water in the brew kettle therefore not bittering as much? I don't know. When I add the 14 lbs of malt extract syrup back into the calculator and kick the boil volume up to 7 gallons I only get 43 IBU's... IT GOES DOWN!! (I don't have the capacity to boil 7 gallons at a time yet, just curious what the calculator is doing) Is this recepie beyond the limits of the free online tastybrew.com calculator or does that much sugar actually limit the bittering process of the hops? I'm confused with this whole recepie, which goes:

21 LBS light malt extract syrup
3lbs carafoam steeped
1.5lbs crystal 20 steeped
1.5 lbs melanoidin steeped(for the online calculator I substituted american crystal 30L)
.375 lbs (6 oz) american crystal 120L steeped

1 oz simcoe 12% @30 min
1 oz amarillo 9.8% @ 30 min
2oz Simcoe 12% @7 min
2 oz amarillo 9.8% @ 7 min

1 oz simcoe 12% @ 165 degrees F while cooling down the wort
1oz amarillo 9.8% @ 165 degrees F while cooling down the wort

and I am using Wyeast PACMAN ROGUE yeast!!! Actually, the yeast cake from my batch of pale ale that's fermenting right now. :rockin:

This recepie triples the light malt extract syrup, it doubles the specialty grains and adds 6oz crystal 120 and doubles the hops used in the hop schedule. It's also going to be one gallon larger, but eventhough the bittering hops are in for 30 min instead of 23 min and the finishing hops are in for 7 min instead of 5 min I only get 6 more IBU's than that pale ale... Someone Help!!! (as for the yeast, I have recently visited the rogue brewery and this is the yeast they use on their barleywine, Old Crustacian. a 12.5-13% beer, a VERY TASTY beer indeed!!!)

 

[Yuri_Rage]

More sugars/starches will decrease your hop utilization. I plugged this into Beer Smith and got the same results you mention. For more bitterness, try increasing your bittering hops additions to 1.5 oz each, and add them at 60 mins. I get 69 IBU that way.

 

[Grimsawyer]

More sugars/starches will decrease your hop utilization. I plugged this into Beer Smith and got the same results you mention. For more bitterness, try increasing your bittering hops additions to 1.5 oz each, and add them at 60 mins. I get 69 IBU that way.

hmmm... maybe if I just boil 3.5 gallons with the steeped grains and one 7lbs tub then cool that, pour it into my primary, boil up the other 2 7 lbs tubs in some water, cool it and toss it in. Bring the water level up to 6 gals and stand back. Think that would work?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

That might get you there as well - somewhere in the 80 IBU range, I think.

 

[Grimsawyer]

WOW!! just did some math and this batch of beer is going to cost me $75.00..... OUCH!! man, I can't wait to go all grain.

 

[Evan!]

Grim,

First off, if you find bulk extract, you can bring your price down. Also, you can find hops for cheap @ hopsdirect.

Second, with high-grav barleywines, I would NOT skimp on the hops. I made a barleywine that had an OG of 1.123, and I put enough hops in there to kill a small animal. IBU was 276.1, and no, that's not a typo. I put in 11.5 total ounce of hops. And you know what? It's awesome. Just a thought.

Also, as long as you're steeping grains, you could always make the move to partial mash. It doesn't require any additional equipment as long as you have a big strainer. I use the pasta cooker/steamer that came with a cookware set. You can save some $$ that way too.

 

[david_42]

Think of this as 5 gallons of wine, not five gallons of beer. That brings the price down to $3/fifth, which isn't bad.

Do the boil with one tub & the specialty grains and add the rest of the extract right at the end. I do partial mashes for barleywines & the late addition of the extract limits the impact on bittering.

 

[EvilTOJ]

With a boil volume of 3.5 gal with 21 lbs of light malt extract (in a tub, I get them in 7 lb containers for 16 bucks, great deal for extract!!!)

Is that $16 for one 7 lb tub? If you're in the Portland area frequently, I get my 7 lb tubs of LME for around $12, at $1.70 a lb here. They charge $3.50 for a bucket, but if you bring your own they'll refill it for ya!

 

[Grimsawyer]

Is that $16 for one 7 lb tub? If you're in the Portland area frequently, I get my 7 lb tubs of LME for around $12, at $1.70 a lb here. They charge $3.50 for a bucket, but if you bring your own they'll refill it for ya!

Wow, that sounds great. So, if I have a bunch of left over tubs from prevous batches I can sanitize them, take them up there and get them refilled for $11.90 each. So I can get 4 tubs of extract for $0.40 less than what I pay for 3... sweet!!! Maybe I'll get up to p-town and stock up on some light LME. Definately picking up an extra 7lbs. Already have money set aside for this batch. SWMBO don't have to know about the extra tub. yeah, that's right. That will make room in my budget for a batch out of the blue somewhere. Not too portland savvy tho... Is it tough to find? What are the hours? And what's up with that brew here option? Can you brew beer THERE? Anyhow, thanks for the heads up Eviltwinofjoni!

 

[Grimsawyer]

ok, check this out. Played with tastybrew.com some more and I think I'm going to take a bit if Evan's advice and a bit of David_42's and not skimp on hops but instead of adding the extract late in the boil just all up front. Played with the amount of hops added and if I add 2oz of simcoe and amarillo at 30 min and 2 more oz of simcoe and amarillo each at 5 min then my IBU's are at 83. Also thinking of adding 2 Lbs of caramel, it'll bring the FG up to 1.034 and the SRM up to 16! Dont' want to go much higher than that. Also I am going to add 2 more oz of simcoe and amarillo hops at 175 - 165 degrees F during my cooling period. I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THIS THING GOING!!!!!!!!!! I just wish I could bottle it all in 6-8 oz bottles..... then I could sample just a little bit alot more often. This massive beer is going to get better for what, 10, maybe 12 years? I seriously doubt any of it will be around for more then a year. =( heheheh, oh well. Just have to brew LOTS of low ABV pale ales and just drink myself into forgetting this one. *chuckle*

 

[Evan!]

Good luck! Brewing Barleywine is so much fun...aside from the waiting. It's the hardest part, you know

Another tidbit: if you're feeling adventurous, you might try adding juniper berries and/or star anise to the boil. I added both to mine, and they really added some complex flavors to the mix. There aren't alot of beers that can handle star anise without turning into imbalanced licorice-fests...but a hefty b-wine is one of them. Just be careful---with an IBU in the 80's, I'd say use it sparingly, just like 2 or 3 pods. Juniper, on the other hand, is one of my all-time favorite adjuncts. It works in porters, stouts, barleywines, even pale ales (see: Rogue). You can easily add a half-ounce or more to the boil of a barleywine.

Have fun!

 

[EvilTOJ]

Let's Brew actually isn't hard to find at all. Coming from Salem, you'd hit the I-205 interchange going north, then get off on the Stark St. exit. Turn left going over the highway, keep going about 10 blocks, and a block before 82nd Ave. it's there on the right. Or, alternately, mapquest gives better directions than I do.

I've never asked about the brewing on premises, I normally pick up my preciouses and hurry home to start brewing.

Their hours are Mon - Fri 10am - 6pm Saturday 10am - 5pm Closed Sunday, which is usually the day I really need to get something from the store. As I said, it's a loong drive from Salem, so unless you're already in Portland for something else(or someone else is buying the gas) it's most likely not worth the price break.

They have wheat LME in bulk too, same price.

 

[Grimsawyer]

Their hours are Mon - Fri 10am - 6pm Saturday 10am - 5pm Closed Sunday, which is usually the day I really need to get something from the store. As I said, it's a loong drive from Salem, so unless you're already in Portland for something else(or someone else is buying the gas) it's most likely not worth the price break.

They have wheat LME in bulk too, same price.

Sweet! I know gas is kinda spendy but screw it! I'll go up just to check it out. If I have 10 tubs laying around and fill them all that's quite a bit of savings and it's a fun adventure! By any chance is it anywhere near the bar "Henry's"? It's on 12th and burnside. I hear it serves over 120 different beers. Maybe I will make a reason to get up to p-town! oh, and that sunday thing, my LHBS is closed sundays and mondays. I tend to get a lot of those off and those are the days I want/need to get to the brew store.

 

[Grimsawyer]

Ok, it's brew day!! YAY!!! have a 5 gallon batch of 7% beer that has got some nice, sexy Rogue Pacman yeast in the bottom of it for this batch of beer. Think I've nailed down a recepie. If when I steep I'm very efficient I'll have to add water to get it up to about 7 gallons, something I don't want to do, but hey, I'll make certain sacrifices to accomodate the proper OG. I want exactly 1.130. So I'll add water till I get it. :rockin: Anyhow, here's the recepie I will use.

21 lbs light malt extract.
2lbs carafoam
2lbs melanoidin
1.5lbs crystal 20
1.5lbs crystal 120

2oz simcoe 14% and amarillo 9.8% for 40 min
2oz simcoe 14% and amarillo 9.8% for 5 min
1oz simcoe 14% and amarillo 9.8% at 170 degrees F after flameout
3.5 gallon boil volume
6.5 gallon batch size

Rogue Pacman Wyeast Yeast cake from "Dubbel" Booty

Can't wait to boil up my Leviathan Barleywine. Giong to Brewshop now!! WOO!!! good thing I have already obtained my tubs of malt... hehe! WHEEEEE!!!!!!!! :rockin: :rockin:

 

[Grimsawyer]

Alright folks, here's what I actually have done!


21lbs Light malt extract syrup

2lbs carafoam
2lbs melanoidin
1lbs crystal 20
.5lbs crystal 40
.5lbs cystal 80
1lbs crystal 150

2oz Simcoe 13%hops @40 min
2oz Amarillo 9.8hops @40 min
2oz simcoe 13%hops @5 min
2oz amarillo 9.8%hops @5 min
2oz simcoe hops @ 165 degrees F
2oz amarillo hops @ 165 degrees F

ROGUE PACMAN WYeast (one yeast cake from a 6.5% beer.)

the total boil volume was 4 gallons, which I got to a good rolling boil before I added any hops. I boiled all my STEEPED grains and my extract. I left about 32 or so oz of beer from the last batch of beer I made in the bottom of the carboy so I could swish it all up and get a nice slurry going. I split the yeast slurry up between 2 6.5 gallon carboys, which was a goooood thing. The krausen was pretty high. I then put the air on in my racking bucket, brought the total amount of wort up to 6 gallons and let airate for a good 30 min. Took a gravity reading of 1.122 @70 degrees F and dumped the wort half and half into the 2 carboys. The krausen was as high in the carboy as the wort was. If I had done this batch as 5 gallons in a 6.5 gal carboy I know the blowoff tube would have been clogged and there would be a magnificent mess of sugary hoppy wonderfulness to clean up. I racked to secondary today and took another grav test. 1.038. I also filled up COMPLETELY!!! a one gallon jug with Rogue Pacman Yeast!!!!! YUS!!!!!! There was another level of darker sediment on the bottom of the carboys that I just left in them. From what I understand its the light colored stuff that's the yeast where the darker gunk is the trube that ya just chuck! anyhow, I think I need a 2 gallon jar of sorts to store my yeast in. I figure if I take one gallon of glycerine and one gallon of yeast I can freeze it and if I want some yeast for a batch of beer I can just shake it up and pull a teaspoon off the top, make a starter and GO GO GO!!! say, how many TSP is in 2 gallons? Anyhow, I think I'll be racking to Tritary in about another week and a half. I diddn't get any hops to dry hop this beast and I couldn't help but pull up a ton of trube/yeast into the secondary. Can't wait to get this Leviathan all bottled up in cute little 6oz bottles. It will be GRAND!!! :rockin: