Help a stout out!

[Pirate Ale]

I did the following imperial stout, and was shotting for a slightly sweeter finish. Right now it tastes very roasted, with only a subtle chocolate hint and no noticeable residual sweetness. Any suggestions? Could Lactose be added to secondary? Would that help? Next batch will ahve less roast and black patent and morechocolate malt, but suggestions on changing the recipe fro future batches is also welcome.
Sexual Chocolate Stout
Specialty Beer


Type: Partial Mash
Date: 11/23/2007
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Jon Tart
Boil Size: 6.77 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 30.43 %
7.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 38.03 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 5.07 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.07 %
0.90 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 4.56 %
0.81 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.11 %
0.81 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4.11 %
0.60 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 3.04 %
0.60 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.04 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.54 %
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 37.3 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 19.2 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [6.40 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 2.6 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (20 min) Hops 8.9 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1.00 oz Liberty [3.70 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb dark chocolate nibs (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.114 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.092 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.033 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.025 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.70 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.79 %
Bitterness: 73.1 IBU Calories: 430 cal/pint
Est Color: 53.2 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 13.72 lb
Sparge Water: 1.98 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 17.15 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 9.60 qt of water at 196.6 F 168.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 21.6 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Notes

Racked 12/15/07 to secondary. Tasted good, but Chocolate too subtle. Added 1/2 lbs semi sweet chocolate chips to Secondary, and will wait 2 weeks @ 70 degrees F.

 

[bradsul]

Wow that's quite the kitchen sink recipe you have there!

Personally I would do away with the black patent entirely, it's more of a porter thing than a stout. It will also cover up a lot of the residual sweetness you are looking for. Increasing the crystal malt should add some residual sweetness as well.

For this batch, you could try boiling up a lactose solution and add it slowly to the bottling bucket until you get the taste you're after. I wouldn't just dump the whole thing in, it's easy to over do it.

 

[eriktlupus]

next batch you could try mashing slightly higher 156-158* should result in more residual sugars

 

[Pirate Ale]

Wow that's quite the kitchen sink recipe you have there!

Personally I would do away with the black patent entirely, it's more of a porter thing than a stout. It will also cover up a lot of the residual sweetness you are looking for. Increasing the crystal malt should add some residual sweetness as well.

For this batch, you could try boiling up a lactose solution and add it slowly to the bottling bucket until you get the taste you're after. I wouldn't just dump the whole thing in, it's easy to over do it.

The recipe is from a local micor that won a couple of medals at GABF, and they were knid enough to share. It was quite alot, though.

Thank you both for the help.

 

[raceskier]

I've been struggling with a similar question on a sweet stout I'm going to brew. The 1968 yeast already is supposed to finish a bit sweet. The 154 mash temp could be pushed a few degrees. I'm adding lactose in the boil, but there is no reason you could not add it into the secondary or even at bottling as long as you boil it with some water to sanitize it. It will not participate in the fermentation at all.

 

[Gabe]

I would not sanitize the lactose, I have added it directly to a stout a few years ago that I did the same thing to. A stout with that high of a OG will have enough acl% to ward of anything in a clean bag of lactose sugar. Just my .02$

 

[Chriso]

You might consider adding high quality chocolate to the end of the boil, too, in addition to your dark choc nibs. This will give you the "chocolate" flavors that you're looking for. Unsweetened bakers' chocolate or cocoa powder, I think. Could sweeten it up abit too. 1 oz doesn't sound like much. I thought it was usually 4oz or more that people added. I should go look around.

More info:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=48209&highlight=cocoa+powder
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14656
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=47094&highlight=cocoa+powder

Looks like most ppl use chocolate nibs in secondary, not boil.

I also worry about that much black patent. That's really roasty. >_> I would keep it to about 4 oz BP.

For bottling, perhaps you should try molasses as a priming sugar. Let me find my notes to see how much to use.

EDIT: Found it!!!!! (From 3 months ago, that's no small feat!) For 5 gal of brown ale, to carb to 2.4 vols CO2, I used 7.0 oz of molasses. That makes it about 50% the fermentability of Dextrose - VERY roughly speaking. It imparts a great sweet flavor, that isn't obviously just sugar. Fairly complex, should complement chocolate well. It worked wonders in my Honey Brown.

How many vols CO2 do you want? For a stout, probably around 2.4 I would guess.

 

[CBBaron]

An opinion from a newbie who likes stouts.
If you want a sweeter RIS (or stout in general) there is probably too much Black Patent and late hops additions. I just don't feel like lots of hops flavors work real well in a sweeter stout. I think the roasted barley is just fine and you could increase the chocolate some but you probably don't need much more.
Lactose will sweeten it some but with a beer this big it is easy to get it so thick it becomes difficult to drink. The dryness is coming from the roasted malts and hops.
The best thing to do with your stout is let it age. An imperial stout is going to improve lots with age. 6-months to a year in the cellar is not uncommon for a good RIS. The roast flavors and alcohol will mellow with time and it may feel more full bodied.

So I would not try to add anything right now. Just give it time in the bottle to age and mellow. You will probably find it is a wonderful stout.
I think for a chocolate stout I would go with a smaller beer and add lactose to give it more sweetness. This is what I think of in a chocolate beer.

Craig

 

[Pirate Ale]

Suprisingly enough, the hops are not very present in the tastings.

As for Chocolate, it has 1 lbs of Ghirardelli dark chocolate added at 10 mins in the boil, and 1/2 lbs of Ghirardelli semi sweet nib added to the secondary.

Again, I am following a local Micro's recipe. They set the % of each malt. My problem, I think was not hitting the efficiecy needed to get to the OG. I'm going to let it age, and see how it tastes in a month.

 

[Chriso]

OH. I mis-read pounds as ounces. I apologize.
For the current batch, I would still try molasses though. I think you may be pleasantly surprised, just let it age 3 or 4 weeks in the bottle so that you don't taste what would obviously be unaltered molasses.