Help a newbie plan out a year

[Bh750]

I've just finished my first batch (100 days from pitching) and while I had tons of fun and learned alot, it was just OK tasting. Now I understand what people mean when they say it needs to age more. I'm hearing 6 months to a year at least for better tasting Cider?

So it got me thinking, if I started now pitching a new batch every month, a year from now I could have a new brew to try on a monthly basis. Patience

SO my question is, with that idea in mind (12 rolling batches), should I just gt 12 one gallon carboys? That's more than enough for me at this point and would allow more leeway and room for experimenting. Or is there a better/smarter way to do it?

 

[owmatooth]

what was it about it that was just ok? and is there a type of commercial cider you're trying to emulate. I love my cider, it's very close to a redds apple ale in taste. I'm doing 5 gal batches and kegging it, and i'm at about 30 days from pitch to glass. but my recipie is fairly simple, so not a lot going on to mature over several months.

 

[pshankstar]

what was it about it that was just ok? and is there a type of commercial cider you're trying to emulate. I love my cider, it's very close to a redds apple ale in taste. I'm doing 5 gal batches and kegging it, and i'm at about 30 days from pitch to glass. but my recipie is fairly simple, so not a lot going on to mature over several months.

Can you share your recipe? I am looking to make a cider similar to Redds. I am not a big cider person, but I have friends who prefer it over beer, so I try to have some on hand for them.

 

[Bh750]

what was it about it that was just ok? and is there a type of commercial cider you're trying to emulate. I love my cider, it's very close to a redds apple ale in taste. I'm doing 5 gal batches and kegging it, and i'm at about 30 days from pitch to glass. but my recipie is fairly simple, so not a lot going on to mature over several months.

Here's what I did:

• All equipment was cleaned and sterilized with PBW and Star Sanitizer.
• I started with 1 gallon of fresh cider from a health food store.
• Add some Pectinase 1 hour before dosing (followed directions on bottle)
• Used Nottingham Ale Yeast -- Followed directions and pitched the yeast in some warm water and let it sit for 15 mins before pitching in room temp cider
• After 26 days transferred to secondary
• Temp of the brew the whole time is 66 degrees F
• 10 days later the SG was .0098 (I forgot to measure starting SG)
• Topped with Argon Gas and let sit until day 85
• Day 85 bottled into brand new, clean and sterilized flip top bottles
• At time of bottling back sweetened and back carbonated
• Back sweetened with Stevia
• Back carbonated with 1/8 teaspoon of Dextrose (now know that was too little)
• Two weeks later, day 99 put in fridge to chill
• Day 100 drank

The batch didn't have alot of taste. Thats ok b/c I prefer a more dry cider. But this also had a harsh sort of taste. Clearly had an alcohol taste. I'd pour a glass and add some stevia or apple extract to try to improve the taste. Which it did a little. But it still had that harsh or bitter taste to it.

So then I learned the longer you wait the more time those bitter flavors (malic or something) have to soften?

I'm thinking if I put the time in ahead and plan it properly, after a few months I'll always have a fresh batch.

With that said, would love to hear about your recipe!

 

[owmatooth]

everything looks good, i'm guessing the issue might have been the organic cider. I'll give you my secret recipe but don't tell anyone. it very very guarded.

5 gallons mott's 100% apple juice from walmart. the cheap kind, not the organic stuff with apple bits in it.
1 package wyeast American Ale II (actually just slurry from having racked an ale to a keg)

pitch yeast in 6.5 gallon carboy with juice. OG will be about 1.052 or so. Wait a week for all the activity to stop. FG will be about 1.004 or so. That makes about a 4.5-5% abv. Chill it in fridge for 2 days to cold crash and get it clearer.

then i rack from the primary to a keg and force carbonate for the first few days while drinking it, finally after about 2-3 days the carbonation is spot on and i drop the co2 pressure to 12 psi.

when i'm ready rack to the keg, I buy another 5 gallons of apple juice and pour it into the carboy on top of the old yeast as soon as i've finished racking. and the whole thing starts again.

I add no sugar or backsweeten, and i have tried using apple cider with not as great results. I've also skimped and used the walmart brand apple juice, but the motts finishes clearer. I will reuse the same yeast without ever taking it out of the carboy. everyone likes it and drinks it as fast as my beers. now that i've got one in keg on tap, one in keg in fridge, i take the last inch that i didn't rack and swirl it in the carboy to make a yummy yeast slurry. makes about 3 mason jars worth. I store these mason jars in the fridge to pitch in my next batch so i don't have to buy more yeast. I'm at about 20 cents per pint of cost for the cider.

I ferment at room temperature with the ale yeast, which is about 72 in my house.

I've got a batch i added 5 lbs of sugar to and used a wine yeast instead, and it's at 11% abv, it tastes like a pinot grigio. i'm not gonna carb that one, i'll bottle it like wine. I've let that one sit for about 3 weeks and now it's in the fridge clearing. It's pretty clear, but still some haze. tastes like a decent white. I've tried making reds and they tasted like cheap wine, this stuff tastes like a basic $12 bottle of white. much better and easier than the reds.

just no making fun of my complex recipe.

 

[pshankstar]

I will be sure I don't share your recipe! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Chalkyt]

You can probably see from my posts that although I have been trying to make cider from our fresh apples for about three years, I am very much a beginner. Until now (joining the forum), my results have also been pretty ordinary.

However, your approach has been quite similar to mine in the past. I also had a somewhat harsh yeasty taste. This year is different... it tastes great!

The difference seems to have been due to taking the cider off the lees (primary fermentation) after a week or so. i.e. when the SG has dropped from something like 1.050-1.070 (depending on the batch) to around or below 1.000. This involves transferring all but the last 1/2 inch (which should contain a lot of settled apple solids and yeast residue) to another carboy with an airlock, then leaving it this secondary fermentation phase for a month or so.

The taste difference is amazing (thanks for all the good advice, forum). I have just bottled the first batch and am waiting for the back carbonation to kick in (I sugared it up to about 1.003-1.005, or around 2-3 tsp per 1 gallon batch, which is roughly 1/2 - 1 tsp per pint or 500m lbottle)

I also added Argon to the top of secondary fermentation because of the head space that results from discarding the bottom 1/2 inch of the primary brew. In my latest batch (just transferred to secondary) I kept some of the original juice for topping up. This increased the secondary SG to around 1.004 - 1,010 so I will see what effect (if any (this has).

 

[Bh750]

everything looks good, i'm guessing the issue might have been the organic cider. I'll give you my secret recipe but don't tell anyone. it very very guarded.

5 gallons mott's 100% apple juice from walmart. the cheap kind, not the organic stuff with apple bits in it.
1 package wyeast American Ale II (actually just slurry from having racked an ale to a keg)

pitch yeast in 6.5 gallon carboy with juice. OG will be about 1.052 or so. Wait a week for all the activity to stop. FG will be about 1.004 or so. That makes about a 4.5-5% abv. Chill it in fridge for 2 days to cold crash and get it clearer.

then i rack from the primary to a keg and force carbonate for the first few days while drinking it, finally after about 2-3 days the carbonation is spot on and i drop the co2 pressure to 12 psi.

when i'm ready rack to the keg, I buy another 5 gallons of apple juice and pour it into the carboy on top of the old yeast as soon as i've finished racking. and the whole thing starts again.

I add no sugar or backsweeten, and i have tried using apple cider with not as great results. I've also skimped and used the walmart brand apple juice, but the motts finishes clearer. I will reuse the same yeast without ever taking it out of the carboy. everyone likes it and drinks it as fast as my beers. now that i've got one in keg on tap, one in keg in fridge, i take the last inch that i didn't rack and swirl it in the carboy to make a yummy yeast slurry. makes about 3 mason jars worth. I store these mason jars in the fridge to pitch in my next batch so i don't have to buy more yeast. I'm at about 20 cents per pint of cost for the cider.

I ferment at room temperature with the ale yeast, which is about 72 in my house.

I've got a batch i added 5 lbs of sugar to and used a wine yeast instead, and it's at 11% abv, it tastes like a pinot grigio. i'm not gonna carb that one, i'll bottle it like wine. I've let that one sit for about 3 weeks and now it's in the fridge clearing. It's pretty clear, but still some haze. tastes like a d/ecent white. I've tried making reds and they tasted like cheap wine, this stuff tastes like a basic $12 bottle of white. much better and easier than the reds.

just no making fun of my complex recipe.

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing. I love the recipe and am going to try it on my next batch!! couple questions:

- how important is it that I use the same yeast? I have nottingham ale and brewers best cider yeast right now. Can you send a link for a place to buy the one you use?

- I havent learned how to do forced carbonation yet so assuming this will work with back carbonating using dextrose?

 

[owmatooth]

- the yeast really shouldn't matter as long as its an ale yeast. I'd pick the nottingham over the cider yeast for my simple recipe. Cider yeast might have a higher alcohol tolerance and you'll end up with a hot cider (too much abv) with little flavor. the nottingham and all ale yeasts die out at about 6-7% abv, so it's self-limiting. without adding extra sugar in the beginning you should be a good 1.5 points below which leaves room for the bottle carb yeast to work.


-the forced carbonation is for kegging and being impatient. if you are bottling then you'll be fine with the sugar after cold crashing. still enough yeast in suspension after a cold crash to get the bottle carb done.

 

[Bh750]

Owmatooth- been waiting to post back to you. I was really excited to try your recipe. Went right out and got some Motts (you got the Motts? LOL).
After 8 days I cold crashed. Just finished forced carbonation (got a kit). It's a bit too sweet but amazing how great it tastes otherwise!!!!

I actually only carbonated 1/2 the gallon batch. Put the rest back on the shelf to see if I could get it to ferment more. And bc I'm a newbie at this I realized I should test SG first. Tested it and was at 1.008. Guess that's why it tasted a bit sweet?

Anyway I love this recipe. As I was typing this the wife came by and tasted it and thought it was much better than my last batch.

I'm thinking my previous batches had a weird taste bc like you said the apple cider I used or maybe bc I wasn't rinsing out the containers after cleaning them with 5 Star?

 

[owmatooth]

Glad to hear it worked out pretty well. Yes the 1.008 gives it the sweetness, another two weeks in the primary might get it down closer to 1.003 and it will be a little drier. It's not fancy, but man is it easy and easy drinking.

 

[MarkKF]

Can you share your recipe? I am looking to make a cider similar to Redds. I am not a big cider person, but I have friends who prefer it over beer, so I try to have some on hand for them.

Buy a lite beer and mix it with an Angry Orchard or Woodchuck. Sorry just pulling your leg. I'm not that big of a snob and occasionally drink a Redds or Corona but that's just not cider.

 

[owmatooth]

Buy a lite beer and mix it with an Angry Orchard or Woodchuck. Sorry just pulling your leg. I'm not that big of a snob and occasionally drink a Redds or Corona but that's just not cider.

I agree. not having been a cider drinker before, my only model was to emulate a redds. The angry orchard just tastes like it's a touch more acidic to me, which some lactic acid would achieve post fermentation, I'll have to head to total wine and get a few "real ciders" to try and then compare it.

I've even enjoyed adding some of my pale ale (bee haus) to the cider I've got now and marvel at how much it tastes like a redds. lol. becareful what you wish for, perhaps you just might get it.

ps. what would you suggest i look for at my total wine (big store) to have a good representation of a cider- British style i assume.

 

[Bh750]

Glad to hear it worked out pretty well. Yes the 1.008 gives it the sweetness, another two weeks in the primary might get it down closer to 1.003 and it will be a little drier. It's not fancy, but man is it easy and easy drinking.

Thanks, I'll do that. WIll measure tomorrow which will be another week+ later and see. WIll also give it a taste.

Buy a lite beer and mix it with an Angry Orchard or Woodchuck. Sorry just pulling your leg. I'm not that big of a snob and occasionally drink a Redds or Corona but that's just not cider.

LOL. I'm far from a cider snob and would be hapy if I could replicate the standard commercial stuff. Would be awesome if I could have a quick and easy way to make something like that. Then spend some time refining it to my personal taste.

thanks for all of this advice! Will post an update soon!