Hefeweizen...What went wrong?

[Sparkhill]

About 2 weeks ago I brewed my first Hefeweizen. I pulled my recipe and procedure from a variety of sources and expected a good outcome but unfortunately I missed the mark completely. I basically ended up with a Hefeweizen light: No discernible off flavors, just a complete lack of flavor. Not very malty or sweet and not much banana/clove flavor (although the banana clove aroma is apparent). Below is my recipe and procedure, I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on what I might have done wrong.

-6.5 lbs Weyerman Pale Wheat
-4.5 lbs Briess Organic 2-Row
-0.8oz Herzbrucker pellet hops (FWH)
-WL300 Hefeweizen Yeast
-10 gallons of RO water adjusted with ~1tsp CaCl2 per 5 gal, ~.5tsp Gypsum per 5 gal, ~.5tsp Epsom Salt per 5 gal

-Single infusion mash at 154F for 45 min
-Mash out at 168F for 15 min
-First Wort Hopped and boiled for 90 min
-Cooled through plate chiller to 68F, aerated, and pitched 1 vial WL300
-OG=1.049
-Fermented at 62F for 7 days
-FG=1.013
-Primed and bottled

I have a few hypothesis on what may have lead to my lack of flavor and mouth feel:
-Mashed too low (should've been up at 156)
-Should've mashed for 60 min (not 45min)
-Should've incorporated a protein rest (I actually read on the Northern Brewer website this is recommended for the Pale Wheat)

I have a few hypothesis on what may have lead to the lack of banana/clove flavor:
-I should not have aerated the wort (I read somewhere that aeration will actually reduced esters that cause the banana flavor)
-should've fermented warmer (I got the temp from "Brewing Classic Styles" and I think the intent may have been to reduce banana/clove flavors)

Could my water adjustments have contributed to the lack of flavor?

Any insights anyone has on this would be much appreciated!

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

While I doubt that it significantly contributed to the lack of flavor and mouthfeel, the mineral additions seem a bit high. If you use something like Bru'n Water to compute the amounts to add, you'll usually get really small amounts when adding to RO water (or really soft water like mine), generally in the range of one to four grams at most and often in the tenths of a gram.

The way I worked it out with Bru'n Water, assuming 5 gallons of mash water and an equal amount of sparge water, you should have been adding around 1g of CaSO4 each to the mash water and sparge water, 2.8g of MgSO4 to each, and 2.5g of CaCl2 to each. Just as a comparison, 1tsp (US) of water measures as 5g, and a solid is likely to be denser than that, so you're adding at least twice the recommended amount of Gypsum to your water.

 

[mytommygundont]

The first thing that stands out is that your fermentation temperature was way too low. The optimium temperature range for this yeast is 68-72. I usually keep it at 68 for 72 hours and then let it free rise.

Also, you should still have plenty of mouthfeel from any grain at 154.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Water, yes, as school-R said. Use that spreadsheet. RO water when not amended correctly DOES tend to lead to thinner/watery beer texture IME.

Mash temp, I highly doubt 2 degrees is your problem, but when I'm making a german style hefe, I step mash and have even decocted. It helps give that malt backbone. 60 minutes is my minimum mash time for any beer, although I know it's not always necessary. But that's what I do anyway...

Ferment temps, Tommygun and you, have it right IMO. When you ferment that yeast low, it ferments clean, and doesn't give you much hefe "funk". There's no way to fix it now, but I did remedy this problem once by lagering/cold storing the beer in the keg for a solid month, maybe more, until all the yeast crashed out and the beer ran clear. I called it a "crystal weisen" and just thought of it as a easy drinking session summertime beer.

That's what most of my friends want anyway, so it went over great, and they drank it up quickly.

 

[Beernik]

Only using FWH will leave you light on the hop flavor.

Fermentation temp was too cold.

 

[jbaysurfer]

from BJCP

" Hop flavor is very low to none, and hop bitterness is very low to moderately low"

Something I DID omit though that will make a huge difference is carbonation. This style is more highly carbonated then most, and the carbonic acid plays well with the malt to add mouthfeel. Make sure it's properly carbed.

 

[Jayslay]

My opinion is like the others, your temps were too low for the Hefe yeast to throw out its high concentrations of esters and phenols. That being said:

To me, it looks like your grain bill is a little light for a 10 gallon batch also isnt it? I used 4 lbs wheat with 1 lb added malts(2-row,honey malt), 2 lbs Wheat DME, 3lbs Wheat LME for a 5 gallon batch on my Hefe (Which turned out amazing) 11lbs of grain in a 10 gallon seems a few lbs too light, which you may notice in your abv%.

Aeration is important for yeast health. Not making a starter is the only stress they need for the flavors to come out more. Always aerate, IMO.

After doing a few now, I also reccomend decoction mashes for German style beers... seems to just give everything a better mouthfeel.

 

[mytommygundont]

To me, it looks like your grain bill is a little light for a 10 gallon batch also isnt it? I used 4 lbs wheat with 1 lb added malts(2-row,honey malt), 2 lbs Wheat DME, 3lbs Wheat LME for a 5 gallon batch on my Hefe (Which turned out amazing) 11lbs of grain in a 10 gallon seems a few lbs too light, which you may notice in your abv%.

I read the 10 gallons of water as total water for the brewing process (dough in, grain absorption, sparge, boil off), not a 10 gallon batch. Though, it's not specified so...

 

[Beernik]

from BJCP
" Hop flavor is very low to none, and hop bitterness is very low to moderately low"

BJCP only matters if you are brewing for competition. And they say right in their name "guidelines." And you would have still been well within style using 1.5oz of Herzbrucker for 60 minutes, or an ounce FWH and an ounce for 60 minutes.

 

[Loodachris]

After doing a few now, I also reccomend decoction mashes for German style beers... seems to just give everything a better mouthfeel.

I 100% agree! After almost giving up making this style of beer I finally did one last batch and tried a double decoction for the first time and it made a big difference. I also started fermenting at 72 and found out that was the perfect temperature. The keg goes empty real quick and my friends and neighbors always go back for more. The only minus to that is I need to make time for another 8 hour brew day.


My final recipe and what I am sticking with

Double decoction
5.5 lbs German pilsner
5.5 lbs German wheat
8 oz Munich 10L
1 oz Hallertauer 60 min
WLP 300 starter made

 

[BackAlley]

+1 on the ferment temps. Look up Ed Worts Hefe and do that.

Does anyone feel that the use of American 2 row instead of pilsner could also contribute?

 

[jbaysurfer]

+1 on the ferment temps. Look up Ed Worts Hefe and do that.

Does anyone feel that the use of American 2 row instead of pilsner could also contribute?

Absolutely. Nice pickup. I missed that in the recipe. Some people aren't big pilsner fans I guess...

 

[jbaysurfer]

OP,

In rereading the thread, it sounds like you made a good beer. It maybe didn't conform to what you thought it'd be, but it's still a good beer, and easy drinkers are the kind that friends and family tend to want.

I find making really clean easy drinking light beers to be more challenging then brewing high gravity beers. The flaws and problems are magnified. You accomplished that.

 

[chawagi]

I like jbaysurfer's idea above of the cold crash to clear, and reclassification as a crystal weizen. Another one to consider if you're truly unhappy with the taste is to cut it 50-50 with Coke and do a cola-weizen when you serve it. This one was a favorite for a lot of American soldiers showing up in Germany before their palette fully acquired the weizen taste. It took me two tours in Germany before could drink Hefe-weizens rather than crystal or cola weizens.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I ferment at 62F routinely for hefeweizens. The result is a much more balanced beer than fermenting warmer. But I like wlp380 for yeast, not 300.

 

[dracus]

I know classic styles says ferment low. I have found that this didn't work and you end up with a boring blend beer.

I am a big fan of white labs, however their 300 yeast just didn't do it most of the time. Even though it's supposed to be same strain, I much prefer 3068 wyeyest.

Also ferment higher, just remember higher = banana. If you don't like banana then keep it lower.

You might also try adding some cara foam/pils etc to give a bit more body