Hefeweizen lovers - how do you step mash if using a cooler??

[Rev2010]

My favorite beer is hefeweizen, though I love many others of course. I just started AG and did a pumpkin for my first and was looking to do a hefeweizen for my second but see it's most common to do a multi-rest mash at different temps. I just got a Rubbermaid 10g cooler for as my mash ton and am wondering if it's possible to do the multi-step mash in it.

I have a Blichmann 10g kettle and am thinking it would make more sense to mash in there for weizen's as I can raise the heat easily and since it's only a 10-30 minute rest I shouldn't lose much temp with the lid on. However, then there's the sparging issue as it's my main kettle. Well... that and the fact I'd have to get a false bottom for it.

So, is there any way to multi-step mash in a cooler? I would think adding water increments would mess with the water per pound ratio, but what do I know. Any advice would be appreciated!


Rev.

 

[KuntzBrewing]

U can use the pot as a mash tun, just be sure to stir frequently as to not scorch the grain on the bottom, then dump it all in the 10g cooler and use it as the lauter tun and sparge from there, the above process is very common and is how its done in breweries, but when I make German brews I always do decoction mashes, I think it helps give them a better body/mouthfeel and slightly better eff and better flavor than infusion

 

[seabass07]

I use a heat stick for my step mashes.

 

[barrooze]

Why do u need to do a multi-step mash for a hefe? Just use regularly modified malt and do a single step. Works well for me.

 

[fatmoose]

You could look at doing decoction mashing, I beleive that's a fairly common approach used for multi-step mashing. Basically you take out a portion of the mash and boil it then add it back into the mash to raise the temp to your next step. Here's a calculator that Google pointed me at for determining volumes to pull out to get to your next temp step:

http://www.quaff.org/cyberbrau/DecoctionCalculator.htm

I know that it's generally frowned upon to boil the grain, I haven't looked into decoction enough to figure out why this is OK.

 

[Beezy]

Why do u need to do a multi-step mash for a hefe? Just use regularly modified malt and do a single step. Works well for me.

You really don't. The protein rest is for under modified malts. If you do it with the malts homebrewers normally get you will probably just lose body. The decoction can be mimicked with specialty malts. I can't yet tell the difference. I normally go with you basic single infusion for this beer personally.

 

[Rev2010]

Awesome, than I will try it single infusion. One question, and it might be a stupid one, but Weyermann's malts are also highly modified yes? I wanted to use actual german malts for it. Then, I would later try Rahr and others.


Rev.

 

[Beezy]

Yeah. When I did mine I added 4 ounce melanoiden malt.

 

[user 64661]

Instead of decoction could you just remove the liquid and heat it up? Then just pour it back on top of the grain bed? I was listening to Jamil's show on cream ale and he mentioned step mashing and I thought, great, now I gotta figure out how the heck to do that!

 

[barrooze]

Awesome, than I will try it single infusion. One question, and it might be a stupid one, but Weyermann's malts are also highly modified yes? I wanted to use actual german malts for it. Then, I would later try Rahr and others.


Rev.

Weyermann malts are great and highly modified for brewing. Typically you just need a single infusion for the vast majority of your brews. If at some point you did want to experiment with step mashing, you have to look for "undermodified" malts.

To answer you original question, it is possible to do step infusions with a cooler MLT. Just go and get the trial version of Beersmith. It will calc out the water temps and volumes you need to achieve your desired steps. Great software.

 

[Rev2010]

Thanks man, and already ahead of ya... I've owned Beersmith for months now And I have Brewzor for my Droid2 and it's also awesome. The calcs in it are a life saver!

Thanks again everyone for this info, it's a real relief cause I was so hoping to do a hefe as my next AG brew and was getting worried I might have to wait if it's more complex. I'll give it a go with single infusion. You guys rock!


Rev.

 

[Soma]

Regardless of how well modified the malts are, a step mash may still be beneficial for hefeweizen brewing, especially if you want to encourage phenolic flavors. When I brew with Bavarian yeast I do step infusion mashes (because who has time for decocting)?

 

[Beezy]

Regardless of how well modified the malts are, a step mash may still be beneficial for hefeweizen brewing, especially if you want to encourage phenolic flavors. When I brew with Bavarian yeast I do step infusion mashes (because who has time for decocting)?

Possible. Not enough experience to know. I did step infusion for my last Dunkelweizen and I screwed up a bit. It still came out good but it was a pain. I wish I would have just gone with the usual single. If it makes a difference it's probably pretty slight. An improvement I'd like to make when I have made the best wheat I can with the single.

 

[Rev2010]

Regardless of how well modified the malts are, a step mash may still be beneficial for hefeweizen brewing, especially if you want to encourage phenolic flavors.

At some point I'm sure I will try a step mash, just to see how it compares and such - learning new things is something I am always anxious for. But for now I have all my other top favorite beers in the pipeline so the only thing missing is a hefe, so I just want to brew up a good AG hefe. I'll start it off with single infusion and in the future take the same recipe and do a multi-rest mash so I can see the differences it makes.


Rev.

 

[Beezy]

At some point I'm sure I will try a step mash, just to see how it compares and such - learning new things is something I am always anxious for. But for now I have all my other top favorite beers in the pipeline so the only thing missing is a hefe, so I just want to brew up a good AG hefe. I'll start it off with single infusion and in the future take the same recipe and do a multi-rest mash so I can see the differences it makes.

Rev.

Yeah I think that's a good plan. Hell I'd like to do a decoction but I am a bit intimidated. You can't do it 100% German style on the homebrew level. Open fermenters and krausening. You would kill yourself. Maybe someday tho who knows heh.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

You can step mash by infusion or decoction.

 

[Boodlemania]

Instead of decoction could you just remove the liquid and heat it up? Then just pour it back on top of the grain bed? I was listening to Jamil's show on cream ale and he mentioned step mashing and I thought, great, now I gotta figure out how the heck to do that!

I'm pretty sure the enzymes that you're so carefully trying to craft during a mash are present in the liquid and not the thick (grain) part. Boiling the liquid would stop any enzymatic processes and kill your mash.

 

[PseudoChef]

Step mashes/decoctions can be beneficial for Hefeweizens.

For one, you can dough-in at 104-110F for an acid rest to enhance ferrulic acid production, which can enhance the presence of the clove-like phenol with the Bavarian Hefe strains.

Some say they can taste the difference between the decoction and the increased melanoidins it will bring to the finished product, but to others, it may not be noticeable - so it's ultimately up to the drinker.

With that in mind,at a tasting panel/Hefe discussion at this year's NHC, it was shown that the best Hefe was made with a single decoction and fermented cool at 62 degrees.

 

[Beezy]

Step mashes/decoctions can be beneficial for Hefeweizens.

For one, you can dough-in at 104-110F for an acid rest to enhance ferrulic acid production, which can enhance the presence of the clove-like phenol with the Bavarian Hefe strains.

Some say they can taste the difference between the decoction and the increased melanoidins it will bring to the finished product, but to others, it may not be noticeable - so it's ultimately up to the drinker.

With that in mind,at a tasting panel/Hefe discussion at this year's NHC, it was shown that the best Hefe was made with a single decoction and fermented cool at 62 degrees.

I did the rest on my last beer and there still isn't enough clove for me. Not sure what I have to do.

 

[PseudoChef]

Acid rest? I thought you did a protein rest. But with a Dunkleweizen, those subtleties might be lost. Not really sure, though.

 

[azscoob]

I started doing a decoction mash for my hefes, mostly because I find the process fascinating.

Here is a good video on the process by our own Kaiser:

 

[barrooze]

I did the rest on my last beer and there still isn't enough clove for me. Not sure what I have to do.

Try fermenting at a lower temp. 62F worked for me to bring out the clover.

 

[Beezy]

Acid rest? I thought you did a protein rest. But with a Dunkleweizen, those subtleties might be lost. Not really sure, though.

Right. Acid is a little lower eh? Maybe I'll try that next go. How long do you hold it?

 

[Beezy]

Try fermenting at a lower temp. 62F worked for me to bring out the clover.

Not clover! I used white labs 380. Pretty sure the chart said the clove comes out above 70? I am open to ideas though. Consider putting some actual clove in there. Why not?

 

[barrooze]

Not clover! I used white labs 380. Pretty sure the chart said the clove comes out above 70? I am open to ideas though. Consider putting some actual clove in there. Why not?

Dah... Fat fingers... Yes Clove. And in the hefe brews I've done, the ones with warmer temps have a much more pronounced banana flavor and the ones with cooler temps have more clove. Just my personal experience.

 

[Rev2010]

in the hefe brews I've done, the ones with warmer temps have a much more pronounced banana flavor and the ones with cooler temps have more clove. Just my personal experience.

He's right, most yeast descriptions note a more pronounced clove profile if fermented cooler and more banana when fermented warmer.


Rev.

 

[Beezy]

He's right, most yeast descriptions note a more pronounced clove profile if fermented cooler and more banana when fermented warmer.

Rev.

There are different strains though the 380 is supposed to be low on the Banana for the whole range and it is but the clove is not strong either. The 351 is supposed to be the strongest but it's seasonal. Plus I used 300 at 64 and still not much clove. It's not as black and white as cool = clove, warm = banana.

 

[Rev2010]

It's not as black and white as cool = clove, warm = banana.

Of course not, I wasn't suggesting it was that simple, just that the balance can be influenced by the fermentation temps.

If you really want more clove taste and are having a hard time getting it why not add a pinch of real cloves in the boil?


Rev.

 

[bnmir]

If you like hefe's, pick up a copy of brewing with wheat by stan hieronomous (sp?)

 

[Beezy]

Of course not, I wasn't suggesting it was that simple, just that the balance can be influenced by the fermentation temps.

If you really want more clove taste and are having a hard time getting it why not add a pinch of real cloves in the boil?

Rev.

That's what I'm thinking. Actually I have been drinking a lot of various German hefes, dunkels and weissenbocks and I guess the clove is pretty subtle. I think I am getting it somewhat in my own. I am thrown off by this one bock I had recently. I am starting to think they used real clove and why not?