Heatstick = awesome!

[Walker]

Then again... the cedar creek heatstick guy indicates that he gets to a boil with 4000W, but maintains it with just 2000W.

Can't we all just agree?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Can't we all just agree?

Unfortunately, no we can't. I have found that the size pot, the ambient temp, and even one stick to the next perform differently. I believe keggles suck up a few extra watts due to the mass and large surface area. A wider kettle also takes more watts.

IME 1500w will likely not maintain any sort of boil unless insulated and partially covered. Not sayin it can't be done, I've used a 1600 w elec turkey frier, and while it works, it is slow and a pita. You cover the pot to reach a boil, it takes so long that you neglect it and it boils over...just sucks...of course YMMV

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Maybe with really good insulation on the pot, a minimum of surface area, or a relatively small batch size, 2000 watts might work. However, in my system 3 brand new 1440 watt heat sticks would only get a gentle simmer from 12 gallons, even with the lid over top. I had to light the stove burners to get a good boil. I used a fourth heat stick to cut the time to get to boil, then removed one.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Maybe with really good insulation on the pot, a minimum of surface area, or a relatively small batch size, 2000 watts might work. However, in my system 3 brand new 1440 watt heat sticks would only get a gentle simmer from 12 gallons, even with the lid over top. I had to light the stove burners to get a good boil. I used a fourth heat stick to cut the time to get to boil, then removed one.

With two 2000 watt sticks, I can take 10 gallons from 150*F to a jumping boil in a little over 20 minutes. That is in a keggle with no insulation.

 

[Erythro73]

I do have a question. Suppose I want to bring to a boil 2.5 gallons of water. Can I do it with only one 1500W heatstick? 2000W?

What about 1.5 gallons/2?

I don't want to do this thing two times if one is necessary for my needs.

 

[Walker]

boiling 2.5 gallons should be easily done with a single 1500W stick. It might take 10 or 15 minutes to heat up from ground water temps, but that's a pretty small volume of water, so 1500W is plenty.

 

[hammacks]

I do have a question. Suppose I want to bring to a boil 2.5 gallons of water. Can I do it with only one 1500W heatstick? 2000W?

What about 1.5 gallons/2?

I don't want to do this thing two times if one is necessary for my needs.

1500 will be plenty. You'll probably have a large boil off rate fyi.

FWIW, I use a 30qt turkey fryer kettle (name escapes me - the ones that are cheap and everywhere) and boil 6-6.3 gallons using 2000W. I use insulation until boiling, and them often take it off to reduce the intensity of the boil I'm not throwing wort out of the pot. I believe my boil off rate is about .7gal/hr.

 

[Jersh]

To anyone who has built a 1500W stick...

Do you find that you can maintain a boil of 6 or 7 gallons of liquid with it?

I have a 1500W stick... I currently brew on the stove top and previously it would take about 30-45 minutes for me bring ~7 gallons to a boil after the sparge using two burners, that was starting from around 160 degrees. With my heat stick and the 2 burners, I get to a boil in closer to 10-15 minutes, and it's a MUCH stronger boil. I find that if I turn off both burners, I'll maintain a nice boil for about 5 minutes before it starts to slow down, so I typically run one burner on med-high and am able to maintain a jumping boil with the help of the 1500W heat stick. FWIW, I use an 8 gallon stainless steel kettle.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I did similar to others and encapsulated the wires running to the heating element in JB weld. I used a piece of cardboard as well wrapped around the base of the element. Seems to have completely encapsulated the element.

I might have a chance to fire it up tonight. However, I'm going to dunk it in some water before hand to see if it is water tight.

 

[erykmynn]

Where did you happen to find this chrome reducing option? I used one from home depot that is labeled as "chrome" although it looks exactly like the one you have pictured on the right that is zinc. We'll see when I use it.

I wish I would have used the plumbers epoxy. It seems like it would have been easier to use than JB weld.

I bought the reducing nut at a local ACE. The one in the picture is from some random brand from Sacramento, but I believe the Ace brand ones are chrome as well.

The putty epoxy was much easier to work with. Only time will tell if it seals as well, but this is not outside of it's intended use.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I bought the reducing nut at a local ACE. The one in the picture is from some random brand from Sacramento, but I believe the Ace brand ones are chrome as well.

The putty epoxy was much easier to work with. Only time will tell if it seals as well, but this is not outside of it's intended use.

ACE ehh. Perhaps I'll stop at the local ace for the next time I build one of these, if I do.

The JB weld seemd to work great for encapsulating the element with a carboard tube but for sealing the end of the stick and for sealing the grounding nut it was a PITA. I think using both the plumbers putty and JB weld would work best.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

ACE ehh. Perhaps I'll stop at the local ace for the next time I build one of these, if I do.

The JB weld seemd to work great for encapsulating the element with a carboard tube but for sealing the end of the stick and for sealing the grounding nut it was a PITA. I think using both the plumbers putty and JB weld would work best.

Aquarium Silicone works great for sealing the end up and covering up all that nasty zinc. I put a dab of JB Weld over the ground bolt and covered that with a little more aquarium silicone.

 

[sidbedi]

I have a 2000w heatstick and a 1500w heatstick made according to the Cedar Creek instructions. I do 12 gallon batches. I have some data about time to temp with different volumes.

The 1500 never got 5 gallons to boil in an uninsulated keggle in 1.5 hours. This prompted me to build the 2000 watt stick. The two together can do it quickly.

More interestingly, I can easily boil 12 gallons in an INSULATED keggle with the two sticks. I got a smoker insulator at a rummage for $.25. It has an area for my spigot and thermometer to go through as well as holes where the keg handles are. It is almost as if it were designed for a keg. It has snap buttons on it and it fits perfectly. I cover the keg with a lid balanced on top, get from 45 degrees to 180 (strike temp for a non preheated mash tun) in about 1/2 an hour to 40 minutes (these numbers are from the top of my head I may be off a bit). I get from 150 to boiling in another 45 minutes. I can then take off the lid and it holds the boil great. The 2000w stick does not hold the boil great and I have to keep both of them running together. Together they create a violent boil with more boil off than my propane burner ever made. I LOVE my heatsticks.

Yeah, I just found this posting from Pol, too, which indicates that an uninsulated pot needs about 3500W pf power to maintain a good boil with 7 gallons:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/electric-brew-kettles-112559/#post1242241

That, and your response, have answered my questions.

 

[Walker]

I have a 2000w heatstick and a 1500w heatstick made according to the Cedar Creek instructions. I do 12 gallon batches. I have some data about time to temp with different volumes.

... (snip)...

The 2000w stick does not hold the boil great and I have to keep both of them running together. Together they create a violent boil with more boil off than my propane burner ever made. I LOVE my heatsticks.

So you are saying that you can violently boil 12 gallons with 3500W in an insulated kettle?

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I tested out my heatstick tonight. With a 2000 watt element I was able to go from 48 degrees to boiling with a volume of about 30quarts in 1:45. I figure I could go from 150F to boiling in about :45 during an actual brew.

Regardless I was able to hold a boil for what would be equivalent to a 5 gallon batch after the boil. This would allow me to bring the wort up to temp using both the heatstick and my burner amd then turn off the burner. For strike water and sparge water I can use the stick. A great alternative when it's freezing outside and I don't want to open the garage door for fresh air with the burner.

 

[passedpawn]

So you are saying that you can violently boil 12 gallons with 3500W in an insulated kettle?

I bring close to 14 gallons to boil in a keggle. I have a 5500W element that is at 100% power to get the boil going.

The point I want to make here is that I dial the element back to 70% power (or, 3800W), and keep that boil going strong for at least 90 minutes, sometimes more. I know others dial the same element down to 65%, or 3500W. So yes, 3500W will maintain a vigorous rolling boil in a keggle.

I couldn't tell you how long it takes to get that boil going. We move hot liquid ( ~ 150 sparged) into the boil kettle, so it shouldn't take that long. My 5500W gets that hot water to boiling in less than 10 minutes, I think. A 3500W would take longer, but I would guess still under 30 minutes.

 

[JayInJersey]

I currently have the wonderfully efficient blowtorch style burner that came with my Pot...and for a standard 5g batch (about 7g wort) I use about 3/4 of a propane bottle.

I want to go all electric (my HLT is an ele-cooler...IE Pol's eHERMS style) but I'm still working on what I'm going to do (whole PID planning and learning some EE skills in the process so I don't kill myself).

Anyway I need to do something as the cost per batch is starting at $20 + any ingredients since I have to get a new propane bottle each batch...and that's ticking me off.

So I was thinking of building two 1500 heat sticks and using them plus a little propane to get to a nice boil...but the question is, will those 2 stick KEEP the boil if I turn off the propane?

 

[Walker]

So I was thinking of building two 1500 heat sticks and using them plus a little propane to get to a nice boil...but the question is, will those 2 stick KEEP the boil if I turn off the propane?

That's basically the same question/information from the previous few posts.

Sounds like a number of people can keep a boil going for 10 gallon batches with somewhere between 3000W and 4000W.

3000W should be able to boil a 5 gallon batch easily (and probably boil off a good amount of liquid in that time).

 

[Pickngrin]

Any ideas on how to encapsulate the zinc to prevent corrosion (on an already-assembled heat stick)?

 

[Walker]

sounds like some folks are using plumber's epoxy, which is (from what I read here) food safe.

Other's are using the JB Weld, but I dug up info on another brewing forum where someone had contatced JB Weld and asked about the product and the representative from JB Weld wrote back and said that their epoxy is not certified for use in anything that comes into contact with food. I'll see if I can find the exact text, but it basically said that they had never applied for such certification.

 

[Walker]

Found it again on the green board:

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=88709&view=findpost&p=1057839

From JB Weld Customer Service:


We don't recommend using J-B Weld on anything that will come into contact with food or liquids that you would consume. It is non-toxic after it fully cures, but we don't any certifications from the FDA or NSF to say that J-B Weld would be okay to use in that manner. Also, since J-B Weld is activated by heat, we don't recommend that it be used on cooking appliances.

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: J-B Weld Contact Us Form Submission



Contact Name: hooky
Company:
Email: [email protected]
Phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Comment: I have an aluminum pot with a pin hole in it. I use it to heat water for cooking. I heat the water to between 140 and boiling, depending on the application, and then add it to another pot. Would the JB Weld repair be "food grade" or safe?

Thanks for your attention.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Any ideas on how to encapsulate the zinc to prevent corrosion (on an already-assembled heat stick)?

I have heard that Aquarium Silicone might do it. It could probably be used to cover that nasty JB Weld, too.

 

[Gritsak]

Found it again on the green board:

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=88709&view=findpost&p=1057839

I understand why they won't guarantee it's OK for food/beverage, but why are they impling it's not OK for things that come in contact with heat? People use jb weld in automotive and other high heat applications with no problems. It's rated to withstand 500 degree temps.

 

[JayInJersey]

Legal Liability...

 

[Gritsak]

Legal Liability...

yeah i suppose..


Side note: for anyone looking, i found a chrome reducing nut just like the one pictured a few pages ago at Menard's for $2.50...putting my heatstick back together tonight and brewing this weekend

 

[wilserbrewer]

Is the zinc die cast nut a confirmed problem here...or is it just a preference for the chrome? I have two of the normal zinc plated ones, while they look tarnished and oxidized, I wouldn't say they are corroded. Anyone have hard facts?

 

[Walker]

Is the zinc die cast nut a confirmed problem here...or is it just a preference for the chrome? I have two of the normal zinc plated ones, while they look tarnished and oxidized, I wouldn't say they are corroded. Anyone have hard facts?

That hardest facts we have are the fact that sacrificial zinc elements are used in water heaters, so the zinc seems to be OK... in water.

John Palmer (you might have heard of him ) responded to an email and said that it would probably be just fine for heating up water, but he would not recommend using it in wort. No hard facts, just a suggestion from a metallurgist+brewer.

He also kind of indicated that zinc poisoning would be hard to actually accomplish, and the bigger concern would be too much zinc and the effects on the yeast.

 

[Pickngrin]

That hardest facts we have are the fact that sacrificial zinc elements are used in water heaters, so the zinc seems to be OK... in water.

John Palmer (you might have heard of him ) responded to an email and said that it would probably be just fine for heating up water, but he would not recommend using it in wort. No hard facts, just a suggestion from a metallurgist+brewer.

He also kind of indicated that zinc poisoning would be hard to actually accomplish, and the bigger concern would be too much zinc and the effects on the yeast.

And the concern that it will rot, rendering the heatstick unusable...

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I still have no idea if mine is zinc or chrome. I looks like the zinc nut posted quite a few pages back but it was labeled as a chrome plated nut at Home Depot. I guess time will tell as I can't take it apart now.

I'm planning to use it in wort or water and see how it goes.

 

[RJSkypala]

After brewing my first beer with the heatstick and dark malts, I got a bit of malt crusting on the element..

Has anyone else experienced this and/or know the best way to clean it?

thanks

 

[wilserbrewer]

Has anyone else experienced this and/or know the best way to clean it?

thanks

Any brand of elbow grease works...I just use a coarse paper towel and water. Occasionally I will scrub the elements real well w/ a brass bush or some light sandpaper.

 

[slakwhere]

guys, please TEST your GFCI outlet/breaker before using your heat stick. I just got a GFCI outlet tester for about $8 at Lowes. I plugged it into every outlet in my kitchen, and every single socket had a problem. most of them didn't have the ground actually hooked to the outlet.

don't assume that just because it's a GFCI outlet that it is functioning correctly.

 

[BackBayBrewing]

John Palmer (you might have heard of him ) responded to an email and said that it would probably be just fine for heating up water, but he would not recommend using it in wort. No hard facts, just a suggestion from a metallurgist+brewer.

At the same time, John Plamer and Jamil Zainishef, on their show "Brew Strong," recommend adding small amounts of zinc to your mash if your local water is very low in zinc because some amount of zinc is good for yeast growth.

Where I live the water is almost completely devoid of any zinc, so I think I might be ok. That coupled with the fact that the use of my heatstick with zinc nut has produced good beer convinces me that I am fine. Check out your local water report and see if you already have zinc in your water.

 

[Bjornbrewer]

guys, please TEST your GFCI outlet/breaker before using your heat stick. I just got a GFCI outlet tester for about $8 at Lowes. I plugged it into every outlet in my kitchen, and every single socket had a problem. most of them didn't have the ground actually hooked to the outlet.

don't assume that just because it's a GFCI outlet that it is functioning correctly.

A GFCI outlet doesn't depend on (or even require) a ground. It's looking at the current imbalance between the hot and neutral. They should always be perfectly balanced. If there is an imbalance then that current must be going somewhere else that it shouldn't be (probably through your heart) so it trips off.

But, yes that is good advise to check your GFCI's.

 

[Brutus Brewer]

How to Build an Electric Homebrewing Heatstick.
http://www.cedarcreeknetworks.com/heatstick.htm

The plans for this heat stick call for an armored plug. How critical is that as neither Menards nor Lowes had the armored variety?

 

[passedpawn]

A GFCI outlet doesn't depend on (or even require) a ground. It's looking at the current imbalance between the hot and neutral. They should always be perfectly balanced. If there is an imbalance then that current must be going somewhere else that it shouldn't be (probably through your heart) so it trips off.

But, yes that is good advise to check your GFCI's.

Correct. Regardless, the outlet must have a proper ground or fuses and breakers won't work. No GND in an outlet is a major safety hazard.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

The plans for this heat stick call for an armored plug. How critical is that as neither Menards nor Lowes had the armored variety?

I'm just using heavy duty plastic plugs. I could not find a 20A plug with regular prongs, they all have that one sideways prong.

So, I compared the 20A sideways plug to a 15A plug of the same brand. They look identical, except for the one prong.

So far, the 15A plugs work fine. No detectable heating of the plug.

 

[lustreking]

Over a year ago I bought the parts to build two heat sticks, and I finally got around to putting them together. I bought two of these low watt density 1500W elements.

I used them to brew last weekend, and they worked beautifully! After the brew, however, I noticed that the elements were now a dull, darker grey. I also went back and looked at the link that I posted above, and now see that they are zinc plated.



I feel like such a noob for asking this, but do you think I should dump the batch? I'd hate to do that because I won't be able to get another beer ready for my son's birthday party, but I definitely don't want to poison my friends and family.

 

[BackBayBrewing]

I feel like such a noob for asking this, but do you think I should dump the batch? I'd hate to do that because I won't be able to get another beer ready for my son's birthday party, but I definitely don't want to poison my friends and family.

I definitely wouldn't dump the batch. Low amounts of zinc is not going to poison anybody. In some places, like here in Boston, the water is so low in zinc that some people actually add zinc to the water. The only real concern is whether there will be too much zinc that it will negatively affect the yeast. I would just let it go and then see how it comes out. Good luck.

 

[lustreking]

I definitely wouldn't dump the batch. Low amounts of zinc is not going to poison anybody. In some places, like here in Boston, the water is so low in zinc that some people actually add zinc to the water. The only real concern is whether there will be too much zinc that it will negatively affect the yeast. I wouldn't just let it go and then see how it comes out. Good luck.

It certainly didn't affect the yeast. It fermented down to 1.005 in 5 days or so.