Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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lzrdkng14 said:
This is what I am going to do... I am transferring from carboy to pin lock keg tomorrow, using co2 and this method: http://www.metabrewing.com/2014/08/avoiding-oxygen-when-kegging-co2.html



Question I have is whether I should do a 24 hour cold crash before hand? I know HT is not the clearest of beers, so thinking it might take away from the flavor to cold crash.... thoughts?
Click to expand...


I wouldn't, I dry hopped on the colder side this last time and dry hop aroma/flavor suffered. It was still good but it wasn't HT good in terms of aroma and hop juiciness.
 
Helly said:
I wouldn't, I dry hopped on the colder side this last time and dry hop aroma/flavor suffered. It was still good but it wasn't HT good in terms of aroma and hop juiciness.
Click to expand...

I racked to my dry hop keg yesterday. Sitting in my basement at 68-70F. I took a hydrometer reading and it was 1.011. Since I didn't get a reading before I pitched yeast (broke hydrometer in the middle of boil), hopefully this is a good sign.

Also harvested some yeast.

View attachment 1439209714297.jpg
 
I think I'm going to carbonate tomorrow which is 3rd day of secondary and 2nd dry hop. Then after 2 days of positive co2 pressure, I'll cold crash for 12-24 hours and transfer to serving keg Saturday. I'll then ramp co2 pressure up to 25 psi and work my way down to 10 psi by dropping 5 psi each day.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
I think I'm going to carbonate tomorrow which is 3rd day of secondary and 2nd dry hop. Then after 2 days of positive co2 pressure, I'll cold crash for 12-24 hours and transfer to serving keg Saturday. I'll then ramp co2 pressure up to 25 psi and work my way down to 10 psi by dropping 5 psi each day.
Click to expand...


What type of secondary are you using? I assume the 2 days of positive co2 pressure eliminates O2 suck back when cold crashing?
 
gotbags-10 said:
What type of secondary are you using? I assume the 2 days of positive CO2 pressure eliminates O2 suck back when cold crashing?
Click to expand...


You purge with Co2 first before pressurizing with C02. This should almost eliminate any "O2 suck back" as there's nothing to "suck back". I may have missed something.

I'm going into secondary soon. Last batch, I pressurized the keg to 3-4 psi of CO2. How much do you pressurize your kegs (PSI) during secondary?
 
gotbags-10 said:
What type of secondary are you using? I assume the 2 days of positive co2 pressure eliminates O2 suck back when cold crashing?
Click to expand...

my secondary is a pin lock corny keg with a bazooka screen and a dip tube screen. I pressurized it after adding the dry hops and purged the air 2 or 3 times to eliminate any o2. I then transferred using co2 into my carboy and a racking cane with a hose running to the liquid connect on the keg. This was somewhat difficult as the pressure to the carboy was very hard to contain with the rubber carboy lid. I think I was giving it too much pressure #1 and #2 my pin locks do not have locking pressure release valves. so i had to keep releasing pressure manually to keep the flow going.

so, my plan is to keep pressurizing and purging each day starting tonight. I will probably only start with 5 psi tonight. Up it to 10 psi tomorrow. transfer to serving keg on friday and ramp it to 20 psi.
 
lzrdkng14 said:
my secondary is a pin lock corny keg with a bazooka screen and a dip tube screen. I pressurized it after adding the dry hops and purged the air 2 or 3 times to eliminate any o2. I then transferred using co2 into my carboy and a racking cane with a hose running to the liquid connect on the keg. This was somewhat difficult as the pressure to the carboy was very hard to contain with the rubber carboy lid. I think I was giving it too much pressure #1 and #2 my pin locks do not have locking pressure release valves. so i had to keep releasing pressure manually to keep the flow going.

so, my plan is to keep pressurizing and purging each day starting tonight. I will probably only start with 5 psi tonight. Up it to 10 psi tomorrow. transfer to serving keg on friday and ramp it to 20 psi.
Click to expand...

Actually I mispoke. it'll go to 15 psi Friday and I'll put the secondary in the fridge at 40f. On Saturday I'll transfer to serving keg and get it back in the fridge at 40f, and hit it with 20psi. I'll then drop it 5psi Sunday and again Monday leveling off at 10psi...
 
Tasted a Conan pale ale I made yesterday based on Oldsocks Simcoe and Sons recipe. Reminds me of a session version of heady/sos. Not the exact same but similar.

Used 9 mo old yeast, a little estery out of the gate that I'm hoping clears up after a few weeks conditioning in the bottle. Fermentation temps were kept in low 60s.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439558069.358929.jpg
 
bobbrews said:
1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
Click to expand...

Bob, how did this recipe turn out? The last I did was using the same grain bill of my last attempt but scaled hop bill from this recipe. It left me wanting more grapefruit, still good, just missing something. The next go around I was planning on using this grain bill but go back to the original hop bill.

But, before I do that, how did this turn out for you?
 
I just had my very first Heady Topper and Focal Banger tonight at a bar in Williston, VT. Both were excellent beers. I just wanted to note that I don't think they are dry hoping with huge amounts of hops as some of the recipes suggest. I thought it was fairly subdued. Immediately the three "C" jumped out as well as Simcoe. I smelled more aroma out of the can. Once I poured it into a glass it was not as intense. Very well balanced, but I actually preferred the Focal Banger made with Citra and Mosaic and "our favourite British malts" I did not smell either of these hops in the Heady Topper.

Note that he pluralized "malts" on the can.
Also, both beers were light when I poured them with Heady Topper being slightly darker, but not by much.
 
@Trillium you are correct, The Alchemist does not dry hop with large quantities, verified here: https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

For those too lazy to read the article, Heady Topper uses "less than 4 oz" per 5 gal in a single addition. That's 0.8 oz/gal or 1.55 lb/bbl, just about average from what I found in my reading and posted here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16lRe4od0-L7-n0hOQs2Icom9gJSAOTWNb9BFYDwZoAY/edit#gid=0

The reality is that we may need to dry hop with greater amounts to replicate the aromatics due to the differences between homebrew and commercial systems.
 
That makes a lot of sense. I was expecting huge aroma and it threw me off when it wasn't there. I would stick with 4 oz even on a home brew level.
 
I have a Conan starter going, that I revived, first day it smelled very peachy, second day it started to smell more like a hefe, very wheatbock smell with light bnanana, I've ramped up the starter to 1l from 250ml and now it smells sulphur and very yeasty, like bread yeast, no pleasent smell whatsoever. Is this to the ordinary?
 
I just cultured a Conan starter from a heady can and pitched it into an IPA Monday- mine smelled similar minus the sulfur- when I pitched it it smelled like a strong yeast smell- semi hefe like but I attributed that to the starter being warm. Fermentation doesn't usually smell good so I bet you will be fine
 
Had this for the first time this week. Very solid. A bit less of a punch than a thought it was. Just very smooth and flavorful at every sip. I may start trying to clone this after all
 
While I was in Waterbury and Stowe I grabbed a water sample from the tap. I just finished testing the water using my Exact Idip and the stuff is so soft it might as well be RO water

CA 10 ppm
Mg 5 ppm
Na 13 ppm
Cl 10 ppm
Alkalinity 60 ppm as caco3
Sulphate- zero
T.H. 29

I checked the sulphate twice because I thought it was an error, but I came up zero both times. Awesome stuff, I wish my water was like this. No wonder Kimmich build the brewery here.

We know as fact he adjusts chloride to 35, an educated guess would be that the Sulphate is adjusted to about 134 thus bumping ca to around 80 because this brings Residual alkalinity to zero. Final profile:

Ca 80 ppm
Mg 5 ppm
Na 13 ppm
Cl 35 ppm
Sulphate 134 ppm
Alkalinity 60
Residual zero

Edit: found this screen capture from post 2517 which looks exactly like the 1000th brew video
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6323210&postcount=2517

Punching these figures into my water calculator I get the following (I had to convert anhydrous calcium sulphate). I'm 99% sure this is what they brew with. Looks almost exactly like the Burton upon Trent water profile.
Ca 292
Mg 5
Na 13
Cl 35
Sulphate 642
Alkalinity 60
Residual -150
Hardness 750
 
Last edited:
Peruvian802 said:
Waterbury and Stowe had the same h2o composition? That seems odd given the vicinity to the river vs the mountain.
Click to expand...

Waterbury and Stowe are only 10 miles apart, so the wells could be screened in the same geologic formation. It's totally possible.
 
They were both very close in profile. Not much difference to matter. Since The Alchemist is moving to Stowe I wanted to sample both.

I think I'm on to something. Three guys with black ski masks busted down my door last night and interrogated me for hours on what I knew about the recipe. They forgot to change their Alchemist T-shirts thou. :cross:
 
Considering that you can build any water profile you want from any water, I'm not sure that the water samples you collected tell much. If it's not what the beer needs, it can be adjusted. How can knowing how the water starts out tell you how the water ends up after it's adjusted?
 
Since water makes up over 90% of what in the can, I think it is important to know what the Alchmist has to start with if we are trying to clone it.
 
kevink said:
Waterbury and Stowe are only 10 miles apart, so the wells could be screened in the same geologic formation. It's totally possible.
Click to expand...


Possible, true.

In my area of VT, the valleys and mountains have very different water profiles even if less than 10 miles apart (as the crow flies).
 
rustedbucket said:
I opened our first attempt last night, it still has some carbing to go. Holy crap, best brew we've made to date.

We ended up at a FG of 18. We transferred from primary to secondary after just 4 days and it's what we attribute the lower FG to. The smell is insane (good), the finish is crisp but potent, the Pearl is the star, though.

We have not had the real thing, my bro is coming in from Portland, ME (Coast Guard) on Memorial Day and is trying to make a run to VT to get some to bring home. Hopefully we'll be able to compare in a couple weeks.

If you look back a few pages, you'll find the detailed steps we took in the brew process. We used Bob's baseline and upped the HopShot addition to 17mL. The bitterness before the dry hopping was pronounced to say the least, but the dry hop made it happen!
Click to expand...

Did the 17ml hopshot end up adding too much bittering for your taste, or just enough for close to perfection?
 
bobbrews said:
You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.



HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.



^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.
Click to expand...

Help me out here....I am unable to locate any Thomas Fawcett Wheat Malt. Is there a viable common substitute I can use instead? Please recommend.

Thanks!
 
Had my first HeadyTopper a few nights ago. Wow, it is really that good. However, I was surprised by how light in color it was. The 70 IBUs sound about right, it was not as bitter as say hop stupid at 102 ibu, but was all hop flavor and aroma. It honestly reminded me of a sculpin but way better, more gold in color than copper.

Anyway, now starts my obsession to clone this bad boy.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1442433044.659513.jpg
 
MadHomebrewer said:
Had my first HeadyTopper a few nights ago. Wow, it is really that good. However, I was surprised by how light in color it was. The 70 IBUs sound about right, it was not as bitter as say hop stupid at 102 ibu, but was all hop flavor and aroma. It honestly reminded me of a sculpin but way better, more gold in color than copper.

Anyway, now starts my obsession to clone this bad boy.

View attachment 303601
Click to expand...

Enjoy reading the 300 pages of this thread and the 100 in the previous thread. It took me about a week.
 
bobbrews said:
You're already over 1 oz. dryhops per gallon of beer as it is. And when you rack the 5.1 gallons you collected to secondary, some of that will be lost to trub.



HBT Heady Topper clone attempts are continuing to evolve. While the page 1 recipe will create a fine beer, it is not a perfect clone for Heady Topper. It is lacking the appropriate bitterness and/or contains too much caramalt, and the hop profile is not completely nailed. No actual hops are boiled in the real Heady Topper either. Additionally, I'm in favor of a 148-149 F, 90 minute mash and substituting about 4-5% turbinado for base malt to aid dryness. The water profile is also extremely important.

If I were to clone again, I would advise gaining some IBUs during the whirlpool instead of relying on 100% of the isomerization at boil start. Again, no actual hops should be boiled:

1.073/1.074 OG
1.010/1.011 FG
7.5 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch, collected in primary

12lbs, 84.2% Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt
12oz, 5.30% Turbinado Sugar
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Wheat
12oz, 5.30% Thomas Fawcett Caramalt

14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes
2.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.00 oz. Centennial pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Columbus pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Comet pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 180 F Whirlpool
1.50 oz. Simcoe pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Columbus pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Comet pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.75 oz. Apollo pellets @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then after ferm slows down drastically or completes, rack to secondary and ramp up to 68-70 F. Be wary of ambient temperatures. You don't want the wort in the primary going over say 64 F for the first week.



^The majority of these hops are very piney, dank(marijuana), and full of pungent grapefruit. Centennial is really the only somewhat fruity hop. I am open to minor tweaks if you guys attempt this beer and are familiar with what these hops bring to the table.
Click to expand...

Mistake? I'm not sure. Bob mentions a 90 minutes mash. Is that right? I know it's 90 minute boil. How long was your mash?

Thanks...
 
roncruiser said:
Did the 17ml hopshot end up adding too much bittering for your taste, or just enough for close to perfection?
Click to expand...

That first batch was very fruity, but, yes, it was a smidgen too bitter. Very drinkable, very tasty, but a tad more bitter than desired.

Additionally, I've only ever mashed for 60m.
 
Wouldn't the OG rely more on sparge time (via rate and all that good technical stuff) than conversion (which should take place in much less than 90 minutes)?
 

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