Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

[SlamDunkel]

I am proud to announce that the Clone has been placed in the Keg. I cold crashed it yesterday with a teaspoon of Gelatin. It looked as clear as my past racking off to secondaries. That was Easy. Also am doing the second Dry hop with a large SS tablespoon in a hop bag that has a very fine mesh. 150 or so per inch. It will have a temp rise to room at 70 Deg for 3 days. Then Keged again at Zero. That's my best clone. All Sanitized. This will be my Holiday Beer.
Cheers all.

 

[hezagenius]

I think my Heady clone has a stuck fermentation. Ugh. I did a 1L starter with the Gigayeast version of Conan. Looks like it petered out around 1.014. Should have down a 2L starter. I was hoping to dry it out down to 1.010 or a little lower. I fermented for 1 week at about 64F and then ramped it up to 72F where it's been for 5 days. I took the gravity reading after 1 week and it was at 1.014 and it's still there now even after ramping up the temp.

I tasted the sample yesterday and it was OK. I can never get a good sense from tasting a sample during fermentation whether or not it will be good once it is dry hopped and carbed.

Should I:
a) Roust up the yeast with a sanitized spoon and see if that can get me down a few more points
b) Roust up the yeast and add some Nutriferm or something to restart fermentation
c) Add more Conan
d) Add some other yeast
e) Ramp up the temp beyond 72F

 

[GRBC]

I think my Heady clone has a stuck fermentation. Ugh. I did a 1L starter with the Gigayeast version of Conan. Looks like it petered out around 1.014. Should have down a 2L starter. I was hoping to dry it out down to 1.010 or a little lower. I fermented for 1 week at about 64F and then ramped it up to 72F where it's been for 5 days. I took the gravity reading after 1 week and it was at 1.014 and it's still there now even after ramping up the temp.



I tasted the sample yesterday and it was OK. I can never get a good sense from tasting a sample during fermentation whether or not it will be good once it is dry hopped and carbed.



Should I:

a) Roust up the yeast with a sanitized spoon and see if that can get me down a few more points

b) Roust up the yeast and add some Nutriferm or something to restart fermentation

c) Add more Conan

d) Add some other yeast

e) Ramp up the temp beyond 72F

If it is at 1.014 after a few days at 72F and has dropped bright - it's done. I wouldn't risk oxidizing the by stirring, pitching more yeast, or adding nutes. A statistically insignificant number of people would be able to detect a difference between 1.014 and 1.010. (Brulosopher says so!)

I would dry hop if you haven't already, package it & enjoy!

 

[hezagenius]

Thanks for the input. I'll check it one more time tonight to make sure it's stabilized. Then I'll rack to a keg, put it on gas, and dry hop at room temp for a few days. Then transfer to another keg to chill, carb and dry hop all at the same time.

 

[ianmatth]

If it's 1.014 before you've even started dry hopping it could very well drop a few more points. Once you finish it, take a small sample and let it go flat to see where your final gravity actually is. 1.010 is actually a little dry for Heady.

 

[Braufessor]

1.014 is not terrible - especially for a beer in the gravity range of Heady. I don't think I would repitch any yeast. I agree that you could sneak a point or two dry hopping as sometimes the addition of the hops will rouse the yeast up again. I would say I consistently get 1.012 from Conan.... but I also consistently brew beers in the 1.045-1.055 range too. I also carry it out for many generations. No one can tell the difference between 1.012 and 1.014 as far as taste/mouthfeel.
If it were up in the 1.016-1.020 range... that is where it starts to get really sweet and "off."

 

[hezagenius]

With my last heady clone using Conan, I didn't take a FG reading. I let it ferment for 3 weeks, maybe longer. I figured it was done. It did not taste good at all. I degassed a sample and checked the SG. 1.019. Nasty. I decided to just dump it. I'm paying a lot more attention this time.

I'm planning to do the 1st dry hop in the keg at room temp while on gas so I don't know how much more it will ferment. Should I do the 1st dry hop in the primary instead?

 

[Braufessor]

I'm planning to do the 1st dry hop in the keg at room temp while on gas so I don't know how much more it will ferment. Should I do the 1st dry hop in the primary instead?

I would. I double dry hop all my IPA's. first dose in primary around day 5-7. Then second dose in a dry hopping keg for a couple days before jumping to serving keg. I like the initial dry hop in the primary as it is finishing up.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I've only ever dry hopped cold and under pressure. It would be interesting to see if there is a noticeable difference

 

[geoffey]

I would. I double dry hop all my IPA's. first dose in primary around day 5-7. Then second dose in a dry hopping keg for a couple days before jumping to serving keg. I like the initial dry hop in the primary as it is finishing up.

I second this.

 

[SlamDunkel]

1.014 is not terrible - especially for a beer in the gravity range of Heady. I don't think I would repitch any yeast. I agree that you could sneak a point or two dry hopping as sometimes the addition of the hops will rouse the yeast up again. I would say I consistently get 1.012 from Conan.... but I also consistently brew beers in the 1.045-1.055 range too. I also carry it out for many generations. No one can tell the difference between 1.012 and 1.014 as far as taste/mouthfeel.
If it were up in the 1.016-1.020 range... that is where it starts to get really sweet and "off."

I second this statement.
My Conan stopped at .014 but started again very slowly after the first dry hop pitch. I watched the volcanic activity at the bottom daily. It was slow for 4 days. On day 4 I cold crashed it. It is now in the Keg carbed at 20 Psi with about 8 min of shaking / saturating with the keg at 40 Deg F. It is now sitting with the second hops in a hop fine mesh bag holding it down with a ss table spoon with dental floss suspending the bag. I will leave it there for 4 days at 70 Deg, shake again and put in the kegerator and sip it after a week. It is going to be interesting how my friends like it for the Holiday season. Some like Bitter Some don't.

 

[ultravista]

Mine too stopped at 1.014 but my starting gravity was 1.084. The sample was not in any way sweet - it was perfect.

 

[BreezyBrew]

I would. I double dry hop all my IPA's. first dose in primary around day 5-7. Then second dose in a dry hopping keg for a couple days before jumping to serving keg. I like the initial dry hop in the primary as it is finishing up.

So, your beers are roughly 9-11 days old when you keg? Man, you're lucky... that is fast. IME mine have to sit for about 2 weeks total for them to be "conditioned" to go to keg.

 

[Braufessor]

So, your beers are roughly 9-11 days old when you keg? Man, you're lucky... that is fast. IME mine have to sit for about 2 weeks total for them to be "conditioned" to go to keg.

Not my IPA's...... Some with no dry hopping are kegged and carbonating within 9-10 days. I would say this is my general IPA schedule (with double dry hop).

Day 1-6(ish) = Ferment
Day 5-7 range = add 2-3 ounces dry hop to primary, continue ferment.
Day 11 or 12 = cold crash @ 32 degrees (maybe gelatin, maybe not)
Day 13 or 14 = move to dry hopping keg (see link below), 2-3 ounces dry hop.
Day 15 or 16 = Jump to serving keg. Carbonate @20psi for a couple days and then back off CO2 to 12-14psi to finish carbonating.

Day 18-19-20 range..... drinking.

Dry hop keg procedure for second dry-hopping. Love this, can't recommend it highly enough.
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html

 

[SlamDunkel]

I have to back off a little because sometimes Racking to Lee's gave a little more than what was needed to a Diatomaceous Earth filter. It could plug up instantly. With Wine that is.

 

[Trillium]

Mine too stopped at 1.014 but my starting gravity was 1.084. The sample was not in any way sweet - it was perfect.

Whoa, that starting gravity is was to high for Heady Topper. Aim for 1.073 and try to finish around 1.012

 

[ultravista]

Whoa, that starting gravity is was to high for Heady Topper. Aim for 1.073 and try to finish around 1.012

It was the recipe from Northern Brewer; I was targeting whatever the recipe produced. Perhaps too efficiently.

 

[hezagenius]

I racked my batch to the dry hopping keg last night. Getting excited to try this. I'm using that dry hop in the keg method that @Braufessor referenced. I got a racking cane filter and put that over the dip tube and I have an 18" dry hopping filter from Stainless Brewing. I tweaked the method one little bit by adding a silicone funnel turned upside down over the 18" dry hopping filter. That should hopefully keep any significant amount of hopes from getting down in between the dry hop filter and the dip tube filter.

Is it recommended to gently agitate the keg to get the hops to shift around a bit? I feel like whenever I dry hop, the hops just end up floating on the surface.

 

[drez77]

I got a racking cane filter and put that over the dip tube and I have an 18" dry hopping filter from Stainless Brewing. I tweaked the method one little bit by adding a silicone funnel turned upside down over the 18" dry hopping filter.
.

I use a "tea strainer" over the dryhopper and it works well.

 

[Braufessor]

I racked my batch to the dry hopping keg last night. Getting excited to try this. I'm using that dry hop in the keg method that @Braufessor referenced. I got a racking cane filter and put that over the dip tube and I have an 18" dry hopping filter from Stainless Brewing. I tweaked the method one little bit by adding a silicone funnel turned upside down over the 18" dry hopping filter. That should hopefully keep any significant amount of hopes from getting down in between the dry hop filter and the dip tube filter.

Is it recommended to gently agitate the keg to get the hops to shift around a bit? I feel like whenever I dry hop, the hops just end up floating on the surface.

I don't...... I put them in the bottom of the keg, purge the keg with CO2, then transfer beer - which kind of mixes and stirs up the hops. When keg is full, I purge the head space, put a few pounds of pressure on it to seal lid....... and then I let it sit for 2 days. About 12 hours before I am going to jump it to another keg I do rock it a bit and set it up on top of my chest freezer which maybe lets some hops settle out. I like to place the keg high and jump to a keg on the floor as the gravity helps move the beer in addition to using CO2 pressure. I purge the serving keg, transfer out the dip tube of hopping keg, and down the dip tube of the serving keg. Again, purge head space at the end and seal lid, carbonate, etc.

Hope it works out well for you. It took me one or two trials to kind of get a process down I liked, but now it is just second nature.

 

[hezagenius]

I flushed with CO2, then racked, then added hops, then did a quadruple purge. I guess it makes more sense to add the hops first and then flush with CO2.

I think I've got it set to 12psi. Whatever I use for serving pressure. Maybe I'll dial that back tonight. Or maybe I'll burst carb it to help it get carbed quicker...hmmm. I've always wondered how burst carbing affects hop aroma. On one hand, you are speeding up the carb process to be able to enjoy a fresher product. But does the increased CO2 drive aroma out of the beer?

I had 2 kegs and the extra disconnects available and it seems like a good way to help limit O2 exposure so it's definitely worth trying. I did have to cut off about 1/4" from the diptube to make sure it had enough clearance with the diptube screen and the dry hop screen but that's OK. I don't mind if I lose a few ounces here and there.

Another nice thing about doing it this way is I think it will help filter large particles out of the beer. Normally I use a mesh bag on the outlet hose when I auto-siphon but I didn't bother this time. I figured the extra filters inside the dry hop keg should filter most of the large particles out when I transfer to the serving keg.

 

[TheHairyHop]

But does the increased CO2 drive aroma out of the beer?

I don't have data or anything to back this up, but absolutely not. Unless you're going to release that CO2, everything is trapped in your keg. If anything, the increased pressure would keep the oils and aroma molecules safely inside your beer

 

[SlamDunkel]

Just to update all on the clone from Northern.
It is on tap and I can only equate a similarity to Sam Adams Rebel Rouser double.
However about 20% more hoppier.
I have also found that the grains I have been using from my HBS have a lot more moisture content than what Northern sent me. My first experience with dough balls was with the Northern. I will have to adjust a little more grain with my HBS.
This is a very nice beer.
I have a hard time finding the SA II Rouser at times here at around $8 per six pack.

 

[Trillium]

It was confirm a while ago that The Alchemist adjusts their water to match a Burton water profile with 750 hardness. Has anyone actually tried to brew with this water profile?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6171956&postcount=1

 

[brettwasbtd]

It was confirm a while ago that The Alchemist adjusts their water to match a Burton water profile with 750 hardness. Has anyone actually tried to brew with this water profile?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6171956&postcount=1

Confirmed is a strong word for the content of that thread. Seemed like there was still a lot of question to how they actually do it. Only one way to find out...brew it and see

 

[ultravista]

Has anyone contacted John Kimmich about the water profile? I emailed him about his dry hop process and received a response within a few days.

 

[rideincircles]

Finally brewed mine on Saturday. Ended up boiling off way more than I intended for my 10 gallon batch and ended up with 9 gallons from about 12.75 in the kettle. I made an all citra partigyle also, but should have just added that into the kettle in hind site. I was in a rush to get to the homebrew christmas party and could have used a little more time though.

Some notes.

I maxed out capacity of my 10 gallon mash tun around 25 lbs 10 oz. Mashed for an hour at 150-148 then just added the extra grain to total 27 lbs (probably should not have bothered, but oh well). It fit in, but then threw off my temperatures. Total mash time was 90 minutes and I vorlaufed for 10 minutes before sparging. I don't have a pump system. I did add some 170 water to the top to increase the temps before the vorlauf.

Sparged with 170 degree water and ended up with about 12.75 gallons. I think I stopped the runnings at 1.020 and just filled up the mash tun with 170 water and let it sit for a while before draining for the partigyle. Probably still left some sugar behind, but ran out of sparge water. I never bother trying to calculate efficiencies but should at some point.

I was too rushed to spend much time trying to calculate water adjustments, but added 4g gypsum and 3.5g CACL to 7 gallons of mash water. I added 1/8 teaspoon of 88% lactic acid to the last 5 gallons of sparge water, but am not sure how much it helped or changed it. Aside from that, it was just tap water with campden added. I got my ph meter calibrated, but was too rushed to take many measurements.

I split my batch in half and had about 4 gallons and 5 gallons going into the carboys. Each half had 7 oz hops at flameout. The 4.5 gallons was mostly simcoe, centennial, comet, apollo and some el dorado, the other had a bunch of kinds. I split the 7 oz in half and mixed them up and threw in the first batch after boil, then the rest 20 minutes later for 45 minutes before turning on the wort chiller. The 4 gallons had a longer hopstand since I only had one chiller. I didn't check temperatures since i had too much to do on cleaning and getting ready to go out. All the hops and trub are in the carboys also.

I made a 3.8 liter gigayeast stepped starter for all three batches. I added some to the 2.5 gallon partigyle at 1.058, then split the rest between the others. I made a 2.25 l starter, decanted and added that to a 1.6 l starter, then decanted to about 400ml to pitch in my beer.

I used 20ml of hopshot for the 90 minute boil. I ordered the hopshot in October so I was not sure if it had any shelf life issues in my fridge for a month. I am wondering if I should have bumped it up, but its too late now.

There was some little black specs floating in the kettle, not sure if that was from the hop extract or sugar in the raw. They are floating on the krausen.

Used 24 lbs pearl, 1.5 lbs TF white wheat, 1.5 lbs caramalt, 1.5 lbs sugar in the raw. I got my grains and hopshot from farmhouse.

My OG was 1.093, but I think my hydrometer might be off and it could be higher.

My only concern at this point is if the bitterness is correct and how much volume the hops will suck up. Next time I won't try to mash as much grain in the cooler and will split it up for a beer this big. I am still in process on reading Water, and still have a lot to improve on that.

Pitched yeast yesterday and oxygenated around 60 degrees and they are now fermenting today. The chamber is set to 62 degrees.

 

[Trillium]

Confirmed is a strong word for the content of that thread. Seemed like there was still a lot of question to how they actually do it. Only one way to find out...brew it and see

The link shows a video from The Alchemist themselves. It clearly shows a portion of their brew sheet with 750 hardness. You can't get more definitive confirmation then that. Also see this image from one of their sheets (everything matches)

They also show that on the sheet that "liquor treatment" is 776 gallons. They brew on a 15 barrel system. There are 31 gallons per barrel which is 465 gallons. If they were not brewing and sparging with the same water, then they would not need so much treated liquor. Yup, definitely confirmed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6237310&postcount=2435

 

[TheHairyHop]

The link shows a video from The Alchemist themselves. It clearly shows a portion of their brew sheet with 750 hardness. You can't get more definitive confirmation then that. Also see this image from one of their sheets (everything matches)

They also show that on the sheet that "liquor treatment" is 776 gallons. They brew on a 15 barrel system. There are 31 gallons per barrel which is 465 gallons. If they were not brewing and sparging with the same water, then they would not need so much treated liquor. Yup, definitely confirmed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6237310&postcount=2435

Thanks for the info.

Speaking of water difference, has anyone ever wondered if he ices his beer? Large volume of wort to whirlpool and infuse flavors, smaller volume in keg to concentrate flavors

 

[Feurhund]

I don't think he freeze concentrates as that would be considered distilling and illegal, unless he did it before adding yeast?

Seems a little far fetched to me, but anything is possible.