headspace.....
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BradleyBrew
Well-Known Member
i'm sure there is such a thing as "to much headspace." I have brewed 2.5 gallon batches in a 5 gallon carboy with great results. I'm under the assumption that the ratio would be the same.
brewingmeister
Well-Known Member
Some will say they hate it and never have any headspace. Others will say headspace doesn't bother them at all. For the most part I could care less about headspace. The only time I may reduce headspace is if there are going to be many months of extended aging. Remember you can ask 10 brewers the same question you get 15 different answers.
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BradleyBrew
Well-Known Member
NO! Never add oxygen to a beer after fermentation has been in motion for +12 hours. The less headspace the better in the secondary. Primary and secondary headspace are two totally seperate items.
During the initial stages of primary fermentation, oxygen in the head space will not harm anything and is soon displaced by the CO2 being produced. During the secondary you would want to keep the head space at a minimum as very little CO2 is produced at this stage to displace any oxygen introduced during the racking process.
That's why I use the Better-Bottle system to do oxygen free racking from primary to secondary. I also purge the air out of them with CO2 before the transfer. As long as there is no oxygen in the headspace the amount of headspace really doesn't matter.
That's why I use the Better-Bottle system to do oxygen free racking from primary to secondary. I also purge the air out of them with CO2 before the transfer. As long as there is no oxygen in the headspace the amount of headspace really doesn't matter.
After experiencing a pleasant experience fermenting an ESB with 1968, and after hearing another members comments about 1968 liking a little open fermentation, I was curious if I have inadvertently fermented with an "temporary" open fermentation because of 5 gal of headspace...the 1968 gets an initial open fermentation, then blows co2, filling the headspace, thus becoming a closed fermentation.
kev7555
Active Member
As someone previously stated: "Ask ten brewers the same question and you'll get fifteen different answers".
I primary and secondary ferment in old Sankey kegs. After racking off of the primary yeast cake my secondary fermenter usually has a lot more headspace then the primary. No...you aren't intorducing oxygen to your secondary if you are siphoning quietly. An active fermentation is producing co2 and should displace any air in the fermenter by the time it has filled. If you really want to be anal about it, introduce a little blanket of co2 on to the beer as it is filling the secondary fermenter (though I have never found this to be necessary). Obvioulsy, you don't want to shake up the fermenter or otherwise introduce oxygen to the brew, just siphon quietly with the hose all the way at the bottom of the secondary fermenter and don't splash or anything.
I've used this method for fifteen years and I consistently produce all styles of wonderful, clean tasting beers that have won multiple awards.
And no, some small amount of time in open fermentation isn't going to ruin your beer. If you have an active, vigorous primary fermentation that is out-gassing then there isn't likely anything going to be introduced to the brew as long as you are careful. And most beasties can't keep up with actively fermenting yeast anyway. You can likely always open ferment until it starts to slow down. I have several friends who do just that.
-K
I primary and secondary ferment in old Sankey kegs. After racking off of the primary yeast cake my secondary fermenter usually has a lot more headspace then the primary. No...you aren't intorducing oxygen to your secondary if you are siphoning quietly. An active fermentation is producing co2 and should displace any air in the fermenter by the time it has filled. If you really want to be anal about it, introduce a little blanket of co2 on to the beer as it is filling the secondary fermenter (though I have never found this to be necessary). Obvioulsy, you don't want to shake up the fermenter or otherwise introduce oxygen to the brew, just siphon quietly with the hose all the way at the bottom of the secondary fermenter and don't splash or anything.
I've used this method for fifteen years and I consistently produce all styles of wonderful, clean tasting beers that have won multiple awards.
And no, some small amount of time in open fermentation isn't going to ruin your beer. If you have an active, vigorous primary fermentation that is out-gassing then there isn't likely anything going to be introduced to the brew as long as you are careful. And most beasties can't keep up with actively fermenting yeast anyway. You can likely always open ferment until it starts to slow down. I have several friends who do just that.
-K
brewingmeister
Well-Known Member
owentp said:
Depends who you ask. Beer? Wine? For how long? Was it still fermenting?
brewingmeister
Well-Known Member
owentp said:
I wouldn't be concerned since it sounds like you are just going to have it in there for a week or two and it was still fermenting out. If it were mead that was just aging and you were planning on leaving it with a ton of headspace for multiple months. Then I would try and reduce the headspace. I've never had a problem either way...I'm sure others will have different opinions. Rdwhahb.
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The crucial question is: What gas is in the headspace? In the primary fermenter, air/oxygen exposure can't be that bad. Consider the generations of brewers who used, or even continue to use, open fermenters. For the secondary fermenter, also known as a bright tank, air exposure is quite likely to be deleterious. Flush the secondary with CO2 first, and that's not an issue. The OP is using a 10 gallon Cornie, which makes that relatively easy. Flushing a carboy with CO2 isn't necessarily as easy, but certainly can be done.
When I sanitize my Cornies I fill one with StarSan, then push that into the next one with CO2 using a jumper. This leaves the Cornie full of CO2 and ready for use.
Want to use a carboy instead? To fill a carboy with CO2, think of a water cooler. An inverted carboy filled with sanitizer can be set in (large) bucket with a little sanitizer in the bottom, enough to cover the mouth of the carboy. Then just run a smaller diameter blowoff tube from your primary into the carboy, starting as soon as possible after you no longer have krausen coming out of the blowoff tube. The Co2 from fermentation will gradually displace the sanitizer, filling the carboy. The pressure head is only the cm of water above the mouth of the carboy. Doing this you never much exceed atmospheric pressure, and are therefore quite unlikely to blow up your carboy. This approach can be used with no CO2 tank, just a somewhat longer than usual blowoff tube. I costs only a stopper and connector (or Carboy Cap), the length of hose, and a suitable bucket, like those $6 big party bucket. I assume you have sanitizer. Of course, if you have a CO2 tank, you can use the same inversion method to flush a carboy with a hose from your tank.
When I sanitize my Cornies I fill one with StarSan, then push that into the next one with CO2 using a jumper. This leaves the Cornie full of CO2 and ready for use.
Want to use a carboy instead? To fill a carboy with CO2, think of a water cooler. An inverted carboy filled with sanitizer can be set in (large) bucket with a little sanitizer in the bottom, enough to cover the mouth of the carboy. Then just run a smaller diameter blowoff tube from your primary into the carboy, starting as soon as possible after you no longer have krausen coming out of the blowoff tube. The Co2 from fermentation will gradually displace the sanitizer, filling the carboy. The pressure head is only the cm of water above the mouth of the carboy. Doing this you never much exceed atmospheric pressure, and are therefore quite unlikely to blow up your carboy. This approach can be used with no CO2 tank, just a somewhat longer than usual blowoff tube. I costs only a stopper and connector (or Carboy Cap), the length of hose, and a suitable bucket, like those $6 big party bucket. I assume you have sanitizer. Of course, if you have a CO2 tank, you can use the same inversion method to flush a carboy with a hose from your tank.
Whether or not it's still fermenting doesn't matter. Yeast use oxygen early in the fermentation cycle to reproduce, but there's a reason why they only recommend oxygenating the wort within the first 12 hours. The yeast move into an anaerobic stage where they focus on eating all the sugars. At that point, oxygen isn't good.
brewingmeister
Well-Known Member
usfmikeb said:
Sure it does, if it is still fermenting it is producing co2 which will push out any oxygen. As long as it is racked and not poured it isn't going to add any oxygen. Even if it isn't fermenting the racking process will cause co2 to come out of suspension. Headspace just doesn't put the fear into me.
