Have any of you considered forming a "nano-brewery?"

[Paradigm]

Now, I don't mean under-the-counter to your friends $5 for a 6 pack just to make back bottle costs, I mean forming an llc and getting a nano-brewery license. Turns out, NH passed a law in 2011 that makes it extremely possible to do just that. A nano-brewery license is $240 a year and an LLC is around $100.

The reason I ask is that my friend has been pushing me to do just that. I assure you I have laughed him off and will be doing no such thing. I'm a complete noob and have yet to even make one 5 gallon batch that I'm proud of (beyond the pride of making beer itself).

Just curious if anyone has actually considered this, and what has prevented you from doing so? Or have you done it? Any success? Just a fun topic, no need to be super serious if you don't want to be.

The limit for nano-breweries is like 63,000 gallons of beer a year. Even if I bought the 2 extra carboys I want, and made only pilsners, I would pump out a MAXIMUM of like 170 gallons a year lol.

Maybe I'll consider it in 5-10 years, though. $300 a year to be officially the owner of a brewery might be worth it just for the bragging rights.


Edit: Made the topic a little more obvious with the use of the bold tag. I'm very aware that there are a number of threads relating to nano-breweries.

 

[evanmars]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/nano-brewery-259495/#post3124208
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/opening-nano-brewery-215051/#post2517020
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/starting-nano-brewery-brewpub-360351/#post4489250
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/nanobrewery-336196/#post4182129
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/opening-nanobrewery-321652/#post3999527

Searching gives this:
Here

 

[Paradigm]

No need to do the "look at all the search results I found!" thing. It's an interesting topic that is, as I said, just for fun.

Edit: Sounded more snarky than intended. Going for a 4/10 on the snark-o-meter.

 

[iowabrew]

For $340 I'd def do this

Sent from my XT907 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Paradigm]

Yeah, it's definitely something that I could see myself considering eventually. There are a lot of other little things that might make it more work than it's worth, at least for me. Filing papers, more tax stuff, likely would need liability insurance, the works.

Still kind of neat that NH made it so easy. A little scary, too. If someone sold bad beer and didn't have insurance... yikes.

 

[kaconga]

If it was just the 350 a year then definitely. As it would be much more than that it is really just out of the range of possibilities at this time. In retirement I might consider it depending on where the market is at that point. Currently we are on a fast track to saturation.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

I don't see why you would even take a second thought on this. It's not much and if you might make cash for your hobby.
I'd do it if it was that easy here in Finland

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[NickTheGreat]

I was gonna ask what the advantage is. I don't know if I could make enough money to break even, considering all the licenses and insurance and such.

Just so I can sell beer to my friends? Meh.

I could understand wanting to get into it big, and get large conicals and quit my job. Spend all day brewing . . .

 

[sandyeggoxj]

So a couple other things to consider... You still need TTB approval to operate. That will take some money. For starters $1000 bond, plus whatever other fees there are. You could probably throw something together for $20k. Have a small limited tap room to serve from. Plan on $6/pint and $12/growlers in order to help cover costs. Don't forget about the commercial space that you have to have. Insurance was already mentioned and that will not be cheap.

I am all for more Nano-breweries showing up, but I don't want you to think that it is only$350 to sell your beer. Unfortunately the government has made sure that it costs a lot more to be able to sell a product AND COLLECT TAXES for the government.

 

[ktblunden]

Very few localities allow the use of a residential space to manufacture beer for sale. The ones I'm aware of that do require it to be in a space separate from the home with a dedicated door that ABC has access to 24/7. So you're most likely looking at leasing a commercial space.

 

[Paradigm]

@Sandy

This is the exact reason I would have some reservations. Not the things you listed exactly, but the fact that there are things to be listed. There are probably so many hoops to jump through that it'd be stressful to do alone, I'd likely hire a lawyer to make sure I had everything in order. It's definitely a little much for a hobbyist.

For me, if I were to do something like this, all I'd want to do is sell it to local bars. But I'm more than happy sticking to brewing and drinking my little 5 gallon batches.

My 2-year plan is to upgrade to 10 gallon batches and maybe even do a competition or two!

 

[brokebucket]

I would be lying if I didnt say I hadn't thought about it, since more than one person has told me I should, one being a restaurant owner that wants to sell it. Then, I look at the numbers and it is a complete joke.

If I were to go commercial, it would be in conjunction with a restaurant as a brew pub. There are several start up breweries here in the Richmond, VA area right now, with a couple doing real well. But, there are only a couple brew pubs with a sit down restaurant (actually only two that I know of).

There is one being built now that looks very promising.

That being said, if I could ACTUALLY do it for less than $500, I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

@Sandy

This is the exact reason I would have some reservations. Not the things you listed exactly, but the fact that there are things to be listed. There are probably so many hoops to jump through that it'd be stressful to do alone, I'd likely hire a lawyer to make sure I had everything in order. It's definitely a little much for a hobbyist.

For me, if I were to do something like this, all I'd want to do is sell it to local bars.

I get that! It is a great dream to have. In fact, I have the same dream. I want to go a little larger, more along the lines of a 10-barrel system. When you crunch the numbers it is hard to come close to covering costs with a little nano. Now if you have a few grand burning a hole in your pocket then why not?

If you want to learn a little bit more head over to probrewer.com and read around. Pretty good information over there.

 

[Braufessor]

yeah - I think it would be the other things...... If I could actually be licensed to brew beer in my basement and sell it at a farmers market or where ever - that would be awesome.

However, it would be unlikely you could zone residential for a brewery - even a nano. It is likely that you would need a separate establishment - $$$. Fees associated with distribution, etc. Meeting codes....

It is too bad that it could not be as simple as a modest licensing fee and then you sell your product. My guess is even with this friendlier entry into nano brewing - it would still be costly and involve a lot of paper and hoops.

Beyond that - "brewing" as a profession is really more about "cleaning" as a profession. As well as marketing, etc. I think everyone entertains the idea. But, for me personally, the reason I love brewing is that it is my hobby. I would think that as it moves into the realm of "job" - a lot of the shine would wear off in a hurry.

But - if it were really that simple, and you could do it low key, where you could sort of keep it a hobby and be able to sell it on some small scale level - Yeah, I would do it.

 

[beergolf]

i turned a hobby into a profession many years ago. Totally ruined it for me. You end up doing all the mundane stuff and not what you enjoyed about the hobby. No thanks.

I will keep brewing as a hobby that i can enjoy.

 

[PLOVE]

I'm also a dreamer, but also a realist. It's just too bad the industry is so highly regulated and taxed. Imagine if you had to go through all this crap just to sell a few tomatoes at your local farmer's market.

The real kick in the pants likely isn't TTB or even state licensing, but local county regs that typically won't let you have your brewery on place of residence. Ironically, you can have a winery located on a vineyard. Maybe I should grow barley and claim ag laws should permit a brewery on premises.

The big killer seems to be that to even get started, most folks are plunking down 6-12 months worth of rent on a commercial property before they even produce a single batch of beer. It takes tons of time and $$$ to bring your facility up to code before the state and feds will even consider approving you as a licensed brewery.

Love to do it, but if you had to drop 10-20k just to have a facility that can only produce 10 gals per whack (my system), wouldn't pencil out.

if you haven't come across this website - do read. They seem more than eager to sell you a system less than 7BBL (nano), but equally eager to talk you out of economic suicide.

Worth a read (and a laugh?):http://www.soundbrew.com/small.html

 

[paperairplane]

The main issue I have is commercially you have to keep making the same few beers over and over and over....

 

[Phunhog]

I have!!.....well kind of I call my little operation a non-commercial nanobrewery but I think a lot of people think it is a fully licensed brewery. I pour at all sorts of private parties and charity events. The key is to brew beer at such a high level that of course people think you are a "pro". Now of course I don't sell my beer but even that is turning out to be a plus. Now I don't have to comply with any government regulations(other than "homebrew" ones). I sell brewery merchandise to cover the costs of the beer ingredients plus I usually make a few extra bucks. The funny thing is that people really are into the whole "underground" brewery vibe! Obviously it isn't something you get at your local bar/liquor store so that makes it "special". It's getting to the point that I am seriously considering stepping up to 20 gallon batches to keep up with the demand. A nice problem to have!!

 

[Carusoat]

I think about it all the time. The nano brewery law is pretty cool, but it has some issues. First, distribution costs were mentioned above and with this nano license you aren't allowed to have any distribution other than lugging your kegs to the bars yourself, so that shouldn't cost you too much really. A major issue I see is that you are only allowed to sell your beer in no bigger than a 4 oz glass!! This is great for tasters, but what If I actually liked one and want a pint? I think you're allowed to sell bottles on premise though.

I too share the dream of turning the hobby into a business, but at the nano level I think it would be difficult to turn much of a profit. Recently I've been thinking more of going for a brew pub rather than just a nano, which NH has a separate license for.

 

[insanim8er]

I see people saying, "so and so told me I should open a brewery." Well If I had a dollar for every time someone told me I should open up a brewery, I could afford to open a brewery. If it was as simple as a few hundred dollars a year, and the recommendation of a friend, we would all have breweries.

 

[mrboz]

You know how to make a million with a nano-brewery?

Start with 2-million.