Has anyone use sulfuric acid for mash acidification?

[Hugh_Jass]

Dilute the phosphoric from 88 to 50 percent using distilled water. I've found at this dilution not much is required for adjustment but is much more difficult to overshoot the pH.

TThat's my method anyway.

 

[Homercidal]

Dilute the phosphoric from 88 to 50 percent using distilled water. I've found at this dilution not much is required for adjustment but is much more difficult to overshoot the pH.

TThat's my method anyway.

I do this, but I did 44% because it was SUPER easy to mix half and half with water (distilled, BTW).

 

[foodgrade]

so you pretty much just pour the same amount of water as the phosphoric acid, is that how you did it? Or would it be half the amount of phosphoric acid?

I do this, but I did 44% because it was SUPER easy to mix half and half with water (distilled, BTW).

 

[jamesmiclee]

I am using Brun Water to calculate water adjustments and it seems that a good solution for a Wheat IPA All Grain recipe I am working on would be to use Sulfuric Acid for the mash acidification because it will add sulfates which my water greatly lacks for a somewhat hoppy bear.

My first question is whether anyone has used sulfuric acid to good effect? Secondly, where do you get it?

I can not seem to find a food grade sulfuric acid that comes in a small quantity, say 4 oz. bottle. I don't want a litter of the stuff. Any ideas???

Thanks,

JerryD

Hi Jerry,
So the question you asked, about how to add sulfates for hop expression, I also had. I found an answer.

You are not asking how to adjust mash ph and there is no need to add any sulfates for hop expression before the mash. You just want the finished beer to have a reasonable level of sulfates to enhance the hops, probably about 300ppm for a well hopped beer.

I too looked at sulfuric acid after reading bru nwater. I found that the food grade stuff sells in bulk and the quantity is greater than I'd ever use as a home brewer. Also, the idea of handling liters of a strong acid that gives off corrosive fumes... no. I ruled that out. So, what does that leave as a means to add sulfates?

Calcium Sulfate a.k.a Gypsum. Gypsum can add sulfates it seems, but lowers pH. Not ideal for me, as I already have lowered the pH for the mash and I am not looking to lower it in the finished beer. Although, I can think of one reason I might do that. If I wanted to lower the ABV by adding distilled water and I was adding a lot, then I may want to adjust the pH a little and add some sulfates. But, assuming your pH is where you want it already in your finished beer, then what does that leave?

Food grade magnesium sulfate a.k.a. Epsom Salts. From what I read on how to brew dot com, under the Using Salts section, Epsom Salts will not lower ph that much, but will add 103ppm sulphate and 26ppm magnesium per gallon for every gram you add, so getting close to 300ppm seems like it is achievable, provided you don't already have loads of magnesium in your water. (Of course, magnesium can be used as a laxative so be careful not to inadvertently overdo it!)

I have not brewed with Epsom Salts yet and as a fairly new all grain brewer I am still learning. So don't take my advice without verifying first for yourself. I am not a chemist either, but, from what I've read on this so far, I am going to try using Epsom Salts to brew an Extra IPA. My water profile has no sulfates or magnesium. Really good for malty beers. Not good for an Extra IPA like a Sierra Nevada Torpedo clone.

I hope the Epson Salts work some magic and allow me to successfully diversify into making my first great well hopped beer.:rockin:

 

[TungstenBeer]

Food grade magnesium sulfate a.k.a. Epsom Salts. From what I read on how to brew dot com, under the Using Salts section, Epsom Salts will not lower ph that much, but will add 103ppm sulphate and 26ppm magnesium per gallon for every gram you add, so getting close to 300ppm seems like it is achievable, provided you don't already have loads of magnesium in your water. (Of course, magnesium can be used as a laxative so be careful not to inadvertently overdo it!)

I use them all the time because my water is actually a little low in magnesium (Beersmith suggests 10-30ppm and my water is like 9ppm) and they are just as easy to use as gypsum. There's no need to go over 30ppm, and over 50ppm you're going to start having, uhh... evacuation issues.

 

[helibrewer]

Here is a 25% soln (1+3): Sulfuric Acid

 

[doug293cz]

Best approach is to adjust calcium, sulfate, and chloride before doing any acid or alkali additions. Add gypsum and calcium chloride to get as close as you can. If your calcium is getting high, but you need more sulfate, then you can think about adding Epsom salts. Too much magnesium can give you an unpleasant bitterness. Once you've got your ions balanced, add acid (lactic or phosphoric) or alkali (baking soda or pickling lime) to adjust your pH. Adjusting pH first, and then trying to adjust your Ca, SO4, and Cl, is a losing proposition.

Brew on

 

[Homercidal]

Best approach is to adjust calcium, sulfate, and chloride before doing any acid or alkali additions. Add gypsum and calcium chloride to get as close as you can. If your calcium is getting high, but you need more sulfate, then you can think about adding Epsom salts. Too much magnesium can give you an unpleasant bitterness. Once you've got your ions balanced, add acid (lactic or phosphoric) or alkali (baking soda or pickling lime) to adjust your pH. Adjusting pH first, and then trying to adjust your Ca, SO4, and Cl, is a losing proposition.

Brew on

That is what I do, but a recent exBEERiment has me rethinking that. They claim that there is a noticeable difference between doing it that way and calculating solely for pH for the mash, and adding the flavor salts to the boil kettle.

I'm not sure the preference was as high as the noticeability, but that's one other way of doing it. I tend to add the salts in the mash because I generally have to add stuff to lower the pH and the flavor salts generally do that. If I ever have a case where adding the flavor salts lowers the pH too much, I might try it the other way. Or I might try it just to see what happens.

 

[doug293cz]

That is what I do, but a recent exBEERiment has me rethinking that. They claim that there is a noticeable difference between doing it that way and calculating solely for pH for the mash, and adding the flavor salts to the boil kettle.

I'm not sure the preference was as high as the noticeability, but that's one other way of doing it. I tend to add the salts in the mash because I generally have to add stuff to lower the pH and the flavor salts generally do that. If I ever have a case where adding the flavor salts lowers the pH too much, I might try it the other way. Or I might try it just to see what happens.

Haven't seen that exBEERiment yet. Have to go look for it.

Brew on

 

[user 246304]

Good luck with that. Sulfuric acid is a strong and fuming acid that can be quite dangerous if not handled properly. The best way to handle it safely is to only use relatively dilute sulfuric acid so that the fume potential is reduced. There is an English product called CRS that includes equal parts of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids at a relatively dilute strength. I haven't seen it in the US, so I can't comment further on it.

Use only food-grade acid since its too easy for an acid to be contaminated with heavy metals.

Sorry to bring this back, but I'm determined to fashion my own kind of "CRS" by figuring out a blend of HCl ad sulfuric that optimally suits my needs. Very intrigued by using acids like these for alkalinity reduction and anion contribution. Any thoughts, Martin (or anyone), since this original post, where one can look for food grade sulfuric?

 

[bitteritdown]

Sorry to bring this back, but I'm determined to fashion my own kind of "CRS" by figuring out a blend of HCl ad sulfuric that optimally suits my needs. Very intrigued by using acids like these for alkalinity reduction and anion contribution. Any thoughts, Martin (or anyone), since this original post, where one can look for food grade sulfuric?

Food grade 95-98% sulfuric appears to be available here: https://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/23027/SLS3793
Food grade 37% hydrochloric appears to be available here: https://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/23027/SLH3052

How one would dilute both to make a CRS or AMS type solution would be a good question for AJ Delange.

 

[ProblemChild]

gotta say - been using citric lately in pales and IPA's. Done well with both. I have done tastes and attempted to blind test my self (of course impossible) and have found my taste threashold is about 2g in four gallons. I know - mixed units. That is of course with nothing else in the water. The good news is - that amount is the max I need to acidify my mash. I find the citric easy to work with it is in crystaline form and a pound was only $6.00. at 2 grams for the mash, that is 227 brews.

Stout? Probably not (no reason to really for a stout with my water,as that is the wrong direction), but for light, crisp and/or fruitier flavors, absolutely.

 

[user 246304]

Food grade 95-98% sulfuric appears to be available here: https://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/23027/SLS3793
Food grade 37% hydrochloric appears to be available here: https://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/23027/SLH3052

How one would dilute both to make a CRS or AMS type solution would be a good question for AJ Delange.

Thanks very much, Bitter. The only thing that held me up from buying sulfuric from science lab is the hazmat fee, which if I recall correctly is $28, so more than the acid itself. But it's still something in mind. Incidentally, if you or anyone is interested, AJ does give the breakdown from CRS here.

Edit: Whoops, sorry. I think for the sulfuric I was pulling from Cynmar. That's reagent grade, not food grade, but as I understand it from Martin, you can presume it's safe.