Has anyone tried this quick-lagering method?

[MrFancyPlants]

I think he was confusing diacetyl with DMS.

I thought pilsner had a higher occurrence of DMS.

 

[j1n]

Why hurry?

The better question is, why wait?

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Why would the type of malt influence the need for a diacetyl rest?

My mistake. It's not the type of malt, but I understand that a long fermentation (as is usual with some pilsners) reduces the need for a diacetyl rest. However, even this is controversial. I wish I could re-locate the source.

 

[douglasbarbin]

I thought pilsner had a higher occurrence of DMS.

It does, allegedly. Which is why I thought that's what he meant, even though he said diacetyl.

 

[brettg20]

DMS - longer boil not fermentation

 

[djonesax]

I just finished my d-rest at 68 for a week. So far I have fermented about 8 days at 55, then let the temp rise to 68 over a couple days and held until day 15 (today). At this point the beer has hit its final gravity at 1.012 and tastes great. I started the cold crash and will keg this weekend, so I'll be pitch to keg in about 3 weeks and serving in under 4. If this keeps going well, I will be making more lagers for sure since the process is only about a week longer(if that) than my typical ale.

Thanks,

David

 

[actionjackson905]

I just finished my d-rest at 68 for a week. So far I have fermented about 8 days at 55, then let the temp rise to 68 over a couple days and held until day 15 (today). At this point the beer has hit its final gravity at 1.012 and tastes great. I started the cold crash and will keg this weekend, so I'll be pitch to keg in about 3 weeks and serving in under 4. If this keeps going well, I will be making more lagers for sure since the process is only about a week longer(if that) than my typical ale.

Thanks,

David

I would love to see a pic of that when it's ready!

 

[djonesax]

I would love to see a pic of that when it's ready!

This technique did not work for me as far as clear beer is concerned... I was going to post a pic but the beer is so cloudy I was a little embarrassed. Not sure what I did wrong clearing it, but the beer it self tastes very good and like a lager. I cold crashed it and added 1 tsp of gelatin in 1 cup of 150 degree water to the fermenter for 3 days and I don't think it cleared a bit. So as far as no off flavors goes, I would do another lager this way, but I would cold crash it longer. Many people said that stirring in the gelatin was not necessary but I am thinking that is maybe when adding to a cony where the diameter is much less that my 15 gallon fermenter. I am considering trying to add more gelatin to the kegs to see if it clears but I have never had good luck clearing in my kegs. I always wondered if the pickup tube was always picking up a little sediment because it my first clear beer was always the last served. I'll try the gelatin again.

David

 

[budbo]

You want a fast Lager? do what the Commercial Breweries do to get it done in 3 weeks, Ferment at 55-60, then freeze it after it is fermented, you will have an ice block that is pure water and a small amount of concentrated beer and sludge, then slowly thaw it (36-38 degrees) takes a couple days, rack it off the sludge, run it through a .5 micron filter (cold) and you have a fast clean crisp lager. In my opinion it doesn't taste as good as one done right (3-4 months at 36 degrees) but it works.

 

[douglasbarbin]

You want a fast Lager? do what the Commercial Breweries do to get it done in 3 weeks, Ferment at 55-60, then freeze it after it is fermented, you will have an ice block that is pure water and a small amount of concentrated beer and sludge, then slowly thaw it (36-38 degrees) takes a couple days, rack it off the sludge, run it through a .5 micron filter (cold) and you have a fast clean crisp lager. In my opinion it doesn't taste as good as one done right (3-4 months at 36 degrees) but it works.

What is the point of freezing it?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

This technique did not work for me as far as clear beer is concerned... I was going to post a pic but the beer is so cloudy I was a little embarrassed. Not sure what I did wrong clearing it, but the beer it self tastes very good and like a lager. I cold crashed it and added 1 tsp of gelatin in 1 cup of 150 degree water to the fermenter for 3 days and I don't think it cleared a bit. So as far as no off flavors goes, I would do another lager this way, but I would cold crash it longer. Many people said that stirring in the gelatin was not necessary but I am thinking that is maybe when adding to a cony where the diameter is much less that my 15 gallon fermenter. I am considering trying to add more gelatin to the kegs to see if it clears but I have never had good luck clearing in my kegs. I always wondered if the pickup tube was always picking up a little sediment because it my first clear beer was always the last served. I'll try the gelatin again.

David

Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.

I never noticed that. I always heated the water first, then added gelatin and stirred, then added that to the fermenter. My beers are always very clear, but I wonder if they would be even clearer if I used the gelatin correctly

 

[djonesax]

Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.

Cool water for 1 hour, then microwaved to 150, as per instructions.

I added a second gelatin addition to the second keg and we'll see in a few days if its clear.

David

 

[djonesax]

I never noticed that. I always heated the water first, then added gelatin and stirred, then added that to the fermenter. My beers are always very clear, but I wonder if they would be even clearer if I used the gelatin correctly

I think the purpose is to expand the gelatin but not so much that it creates something solid when it cools. Then heating it to 150 is to pasteurize it. Boiling it, I imagine does both all in one set but then you end up with jello?

Maybe, this would make another good exBEERiment. Boiled gelatin versus cool soaked and pasteurized.

David

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I think the purpose is to expand the gelatin but not so much that it creates something solid when it cools. Then heating it to 150 is to pasteurize it. Boiling it, I imagine does both all in one set but then you end up with jello?

Maybe, this would make another good exBEERiment. Boiled gelatin versus cool soaked and pasteurized.

David

I think boiling would denature the gelatine.

 

[jmadway]

Did you add the gelatine to the 150 degree water? If so, then that's your problem. The gelatine needs to go into cold water for half an hour or so, then get heated to 150 (until it's clear) before being added to the fermenter.

Hmmm....I've never left the gelatin in the water prior to heating. I follow the Brulosophy method of adding the gelatin and then heating it to 150 in 7 second bursts in the microwave. Stirring in between. That's always worked for me.

 

[MandingaBIAB]

My mistake. It's not the type of malt, but I understand that a long fermentation (as is usual with some pilsners) reduces the need for a diacetyl rest. However, even this is controversial. I wish I could re-locate the source.

This is why I just BIAB!!!!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Hmmm....I've never left the gelatin in the water prior to heating. I follow the Brulosophy method of adding the gelatin and then heating it to 150 in 7 second bursts in the microwave. Stirring in between. That's always worked for me.

The important bit is adding the gelatine to cold water THEN heating (as you are doing), rather than adding the gelatine to already hot water (which doesn't work very well based on my irrefutable evidence of one batch).

I've had success both with and without blooming the gelatine first (soaking it in cold water), but I think it's slightly clearer with the blooming (no side-by-side brews to back this up though).

 

[castillo556]

You want a fast Lager? do what the Commercial Breweries do to get it done in 3 weeks, Ferment at 55-60, then freeze it after it is fermented, you will have an ice block that is pure water and a small amount of concentrated beer and sludge, then slowly thaw it (36-38 degrees) takes a couple days, rack it off the sludge, run it through a .5 micron filter (cold) and you have a fast clean crisp lager. In my opinion it doesn't taste as good as one done right (3-4 months at 36 degrees) but it works.

Hmmm, I have never heard this before.

 

[djonesax]

Here is a pic of my Oktoberfest done with this method. I was drinking the beer by three three weeks but I don't think it was really ready until the end of the 3rd week. It tasted it very good but at the end of the 3rd week it was pretty clear.

I took a hundred pictures but had a really hard time with the lighting on my crappy phone camera. This is the best of the crappy pics.

David

 

[jdauria]

This method is solid as long as you:

3. Take a gravity reading before you crash it the first few times you do this to ensure you're done.

Doing the fast lager method for the first time with a Dortmunder. Used my refractometer to take gravity readings during the various steps of fermentation and used BeerSmith refractometer tool to adjust for "fermenting wort". Per Beersmith within 2 weeks I was down to 1.010.

But yesterday, I decides to pull a sample to taste it before moving it off the yeast to lager it for a week or two, throw the hydrometer in the sample, and to my surprise it's reading 1.020 after adjusting for temp. How the heck did that happen?

 

[schematix]

But yesterday, I decides to pull a sample to taste it before moving it off the yeast to lager it for a week or two, throw the hydrometer in the sample, and to my surprise it's reading 1.020 after adjusting for temp. How the heck did that happen?

Refractometer correction formulas aren't very accurate. They will indicate change, but not much else once fermentation has started. Use it pre-fermentation only, or throw it in the trash.

Also if you didn't degas your sample thoroughly that tends to make the hydrometer float higher, which will give you a higher reading.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Refractometers (IME) are far more accurate than most people credit them with - I'm rarely out by more than a point of two for final gravity compared with a hydrometer reading. Having said that, I use the hydrometer if I want to be sure of a reading. Also, a cheap Ebay one is likely to be a piece of junk.

Like Schematix said, you need to degas samples when using a hydrometer - especially cold lagers (then tend to hold lots of carbonation). If your degassed sample still reads 1.020, try warming the beer up to 50F until fermentation finishes, then chill it again.

 

[bluebarnaclebrewing]

If my OG was 1.056 and my est FG is 1.011 would I start to ramp up them temp when my specific gravity is at 1.023 or when it hits 1.033 (50% of estimated attenuation) I'm using the white labs german lager yeast 830.

It's been at 12.5 degrees C for 8 days now and I'm down to 1.030. Sample tastes nice so far and no off flavors I can detect. Wait it out or am I safe to start ramping up to finish and d-rest?

 

[augiedoggy]

Refractometers (IME) are far more accurate than most people credit them with - I'm rarely out by more than a point of two for final gravity compared with a hydrometer reading. Having said that, I use the hydrometer if I want to be sure of a reading. Also, a cheap Ebay one is likely to be a piece of junk.

Like Schematix said, you need to degas samples when using a hydrometer - especially cold lagers (then tend to hold lots of carbonation). If your degassed sample still reads 1.020, try warming the beer up to 50F until fermentation finishes, then chill it again.

I have a couple refractometers... a cheap $16 one and an "expensive" one my ex bought from midwest supplies for me... Guess what....side by side they are identical... They might sell them in different cases or with different readouts at drastically different prices but they are all constructed exactly the same of the exact same components and likely in the same factory... at least all the aluminum bodied ones Ive seen sold for home brewing. its a prism and it can be calibrated.... The one marked up to $60 int going to necessarily be any better regardless of the distributor you buy it from.

I also only use mine pre fermentation and use a hydrometer for FG.

 

[Ben Dempsey]

If my OG was 1.056 and my est FG is 1.011 would I start to ramp up them temp when my specific gravity is at 1.023 or when it hits 1.033 (50% of estimated attenuation) I'm using the white labs german lager yeast 830.

It's been at 12.5 degrees C for 8 days now and I'm down to 1.030. Sample tastes nice so far and no off flavors I can detect. Wait it out or am I safe to start ramping up to finish and d-rest?

I would like to know the maths on that too.
I went with the lower number for mine at only five days and took two days to go from 12-19C