Has anyone ever messed up a batch??

[slheinlein]

Granted, I am new to this forum but have spent quite a bit of time the past few weeks reading many, many threads. It always appears that when someone has major problems (at least to me) with a batch, someone (who knows much more than I) replies with...

"And your beer is fine. Don't worry."

Now, I am curious how many people out there have actually ruined a batch and the reason it was ruined. I am sure there has been at least a few ruined batches. This would give us Noob's some valuable good information on what not to do. Maybe the top 10 things to avoid would be good. I don't want to be the first thread that reads...

"Worry! Your beer is NOT fine!"

 

[Revvy]

I think we've all had a bad batch on occasion..I have..BUT even they don't always end up STAYING bad...

Read this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

It may seem like there are a lot of infection threads on here BUT...if you read them (or answer countless ones on a daily basis) You aren't seeing a lot of infections...What you're seeing is the usual spate of nervous n00b threads of people who THINK THEY HAVE AN INFECTION....and no more than we debunk and calm the brewer down, on a daily basis...It's just like stuck fermentations....It SEEMS like there's a whole bunch of brewers who have stuck fermentation, when in reality they are using airlock activity as a fermentation gauge, and NOT a HYDROMETER, or NOT WAITING 72 HOURS before panicking...

99% of the time when we look at a picture of the SUPPOSED infection it is just odd krauzen, or yeast colonies on the surface of the beer in secondary OR the mess that comes from dry hopping in secondary with pellet hops trapping CO2 bubbling...

Just like 99% of the time when the person takes a hydro reading they come back with this...

Originally Posted by Name Witheld
Rev.
Wanted to let you know that everything is o.k. Checked on the primary this morn. There is still no bubbler activity, but when putting my nose to the bucket, there is that distinct aroma. I opened the lid and saw A LOT OF KRAUSEN. So much that I had to resist the temptation to make a beard and mustache out of it. hahahahaha. I'm going to give it 10 days until I check S.G. again.
Thanks

It is actually more likely for an experienced brewer, like me, to get an infection- Perhaps we let something slide in their cleaning/sanitization process and something from their previous batch got nasty between brewing sessions, and infected their latest batch- It sometimes happens that small matter gets lodged in a hose connection and doesn't get cleaned out or zapped with the sanitizer....Or perhaps over many uses a fermenter or bottling bucket develops a scratch in it, which becomes a breeding ground for contamination.....but with brand new, cleaned and sanitized equipment, in a first time batch of beer...highly unlikely.

I wrote a blog about jumping to conclusions and bandying about the "I" word on N00b threads awhile back.It's funny, I was just thinking how it seems there's been a decrease in talking about infections around here...There seems to be a cultural shift over the last year, where we don't feed the fear factor, and calmy explain to the panicked brewer that what he is seeing is normal...and asking for pictoral proof...

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/The_quotIquot_wordand_other_brewing_words_Im_tired_ofa_Rant/

We actually talked about YOU GUYS before Christmas...

We're going to be seeing a TON of nervous beginners in the next 6 weeks or so, as homebrewing kits are being given as gifts...(it's time to start copying your answers to a seperate file, so you can cut and paste them at will)

I bet you don't realize that the majority of what I write is not technical or scientific in nature...It's PSYCHOLOGICAL....because in actuality the majority of the "is my beer ruined" thread are NOT about ruined beer, or infections....They are about the brewer's fear, and the thought that beer is such a frail thing that it will "die" if they don't watch it constantly...

That's why we tell you not to worry....Because 99% of the time you are worrying for nothing.

Maybe it's 'casue of my training, and 4 years of counselling training in seminary AND training for 6 months as a hospital chaplain...but the first thing I noticed here was the fact that those thread arise becasue the poster is scared.....and because fermentation is so freaky smelling, and looking and the basic concepts of are not quite grasped just from books, but experience...They are just the natural thing that happens when someone is trying something new for the first time...People get scared, and they over think.....

SO we try to both calm fears and educate...but mostly calm fears....

 

[Brewmasters Warehouse]

I will give #1 of the list of things that cause my batch is ruined. Poor sanitation of equipment is by far the reason most ruined batches of beer occur. You can not take short cuts when it comes to sanitation.

 

[Revvy]

Our beer is much hardier than we often give it credit, especially when we're starting out, we think if we look at it wrong it will die. But that's really not the case

I've stuck my entire unsanitized arm in a full bottling bucket to tighten a leaky spigot before and it still turned out fine.

Most of us have done all matter of dumb stuff to our beer, and usually it STILL turns out OK despite our stupidity....So don't worry about it...As long as you take proper precautions, you'll be fine...

Don't turn brewing into something you worry about, like it's a new born baby...it's not...It's a hobby, and it is fun....Not brain surgery.

And if something happens? SO what, it's not the end of the world......I hate to break it to you, but it's inevetable that you will have a bad batch or infection somewhere down the line...On Craftbrewer radio they said it usually happens around the 10th, the 30th and the 50th batch...even the pro's deal with it (the Brewer at New Glarus said in an interview that a commercial brewery operation gets a 3 year grace period before their first infection)

It's called a house germ...and it develops over time...

I got an infection around the 20th batch, I replaced my autosiphon, bottling wand and all my hoses and temporaly change my sanitizer, in case the house germ was getting used to it...

This is one of the best posts on the subject....

If you pitch enough viable, healthy yeast to do their job, it's hard to contaminate your brew to the point it isn't drinkable. Trust me, I've had an infection in my brewery, and I had to work really hard to get it! In my case, it was on the fourth generation of re-using yeast which I had not washed properly (I was still a n00b back then). Every time you reuse yeast you are growing the level of contamination by 100-1000x, so I learned the hard way you have to be very careful going beyond 1 or 2 re-uses of yeast.

A n00b following sanitary procedures using new equipment is very unlikely to have ruined beer. The worst thing that may happen is your beer will go sour after 4-6 months of room temperature storage. I doubt your beer will last that long.

The hosts of the podcast in Australia have 60 years of brewing experience...It's funny, but John Palmer learns from them they've been doing hpmebrewing radio for 6-7 years first on commercial than as a podcast...this is a very good discussion on infection and infection control.

They talk about the "timeframe" of infections, and how it is less likely for a first batch to be infected...it tends to occur around the 10th batch and the 50th...When the equipment gets more used up, and "house germs" start to build up. They used the term "house mouth" in the discussion, how we may not even notice, because we're sort of used to the taste of our beers, it's usually NOT a regular drinker of our beers that notices it.

December#2,2006

“What is sour mashing?” I hear you ask. So said our brewmaster as he guides you thru this most interesting of ways of making a beer. In a nice compact show, we also cover feedback, Kit and Kilo infections, our beer superhero turns “gay”, and a faviourite beer song is requested yet again. Not enough, well also hear about WHO stuffed up his brew day.

http://radio.craftbrewer.org/shows/December2-06.mp3

 

[MrShake]

I personally have messed up 1 batch of beer. It was an ESB that I was brewing since I had A TON of fuggles hops. Recipe was wrong, technique was bad. Pitched to warm. No temp control.













IT WAS THE 2ND BEST BEER I EVER MADE!!!

 

[mattmcl]

I've been brewing for 20 years and have never tossed a batch. A couple times there have been off flavors, but that's about it. To my knowledge, I've never had an infected batch.

Remember, fermentation is a natural process, and those yeasties don't want an infection. Not to get philosophical, but that whole force of life that accounts for a 1% failure rate in any form of birth control is at work with the yeast too. Nature will find a way.

 

[Revvy]

I personally have messed up 1 batch of beer. It was an ESB that I was brewing since I had A TON of fuggles hops. Recipe was wrong, technique was bad. Pitched to warm. No temp control.













IT WAS THE 2ND BEST BEER I EVER MADE!!!

AND I betcha you never can recreate that recipe eh? And wish you could...

It's the same with that amber ale in my never dump your beer thread...it ended up being amazingly smooth...

This is the story of my infected batch and look how it turned out. I posted this yesterday...

I had a porter that had bottle gushers no less...during judging at a contest...I was lucky though I had two patient judges...they let the first one gush, then asked for the second...it gushed as well...but they let the gushing stop and actually judged the remaining beers...

AND THEY LOVED THE FREAKIN TASTE!!!!!

They said on my judging sheets that had it not gushed I would have prolly placed in the top 3...and they were stymied, because they wrote in my evals, that there were absolutely no off flavors..

It sucked because I drank plenty of those beers (most of the cases) with no problem...but out of the last 6 were where the contest entries were...and I was home on the weekend of the judging, and when I opened one...right around the time I knew they were judging, I pretty much crapped in my pants...especially since I opened a second one and it gushed too....

I left the other two alone for several months in my fridge...and they gushed as well..

My porter had some lactose and some maltodextrine for body....so I'm betting that covered up the cideryness of it..and the off flavors...or it was just an overall good tasting beer despite the gushing.

 

[jkarp]

I royally messed up my Oktoberfest last summer. New kettle, didn't sit well on my flat-surface stove, and I couldn't get a decent boil going. There was so much DMS in the final brew I could've sworn someone snuck in and stuffed corncobs in the bottles. VILE stuff.

 

[Revvy]

Remember, fermentation is a natural process, and those yeasties don't want an infection. Not to get philosophical, but that whole force of life that accounts for a 1% failure rate in any form of birth control is at work with the yeast too. Nature will find a way.

I missed this awesome Post, Matt...this is so true!!!

 

[BrewinJack]

I have had some batches go wrong... but wrong is the wrong word, they just didnt go as planned... I brew cider more then beer, but also brew meade and the ocasional wine... Of all my fermentation over the last 6 years infection has been the least of my worries... more often then not its your own fualt, you missed a step, you forgot and ingreediant, you left the boil to long, you didnt leave it long enough... you didnt add the F-ing Lemon in a batch of mead... you didnt let the wort cool enough, you let it cool too much... mostly its human error... but strangely, oddly,... impossiably these batches which you mess up some how end up working 99% of the time any way... and in many cases its 100 times better of a beer then it would have been if you hadnt screwed up... I have seen guys screw up an IPA recipe and end up with ambrosia... seen too much extract added in a stout recipe and get out an 8% ABV monster which you wanted to drink all night... Smelled cider fementation so rotten youd think a racoon died in your fermenter (oddly enough one time this happened, a racoon got into my fermenter and it did drown, that batch was ruined)... but when you you racked to secondary off the yeast cake thinking it gonna be food for the fishes... holy crap what is this liquid gold i have here...

Brewing itself is open to Murphy's law; Anything that can go wrong will go wrong... but there is a paradox to it... Call it the Brewers paradox... "reguardless of what goes wrong, its still beer and you have to remember that beer was invented by aciddent anyway."

just think about that

Cheers

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I had a bad batch this summer, the brew went horrible. it was the first time I used a Carboy for a fermenter, and pushed the rubber stop for the blowoff tube into the wort. I had to fish it out with a hanger, and it took about 20 minutes for me to get it out. I was so frustrated that I didn't notice the hanger had rust on it. On top of that I had to evacuate my home due to fires, and the house got extremely hot during fermentation. I was using Wyeast Kolsch , which likes a lower ferm temp, so the 85* or so that the house got to didn't help. Anyhow, the beer tasted like chlorine and each bottle over flowed with fizz within a few seconds. It was undrinkable, so I dumped it. At that point I was just happy that home hadn't burned to the ground , so dumping a batch of beer wasn't a big deal.

 

[ArcaneXor]

My third Mr. Beer batch when I was starting out back in 2007 was irreparably infected, and I had to dump it eventually. Everything since then has been great, although I had an amber ale that got sour as it aged, but that only made it better.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Ummm, yeah. I accidentally brewed a cigar beer once. hopstopper users... - Page 5 - Home Brew Forums

 

[Revvy]

Sparky I loved your thread...though I was sorry about your bad batch...

I thought this was My worst brewing mistake...

But it wasn't a real beer, it was a GaP experiment...and it was my only dumper...I try to see all my beers through to the bottle...

Here's the story...
The biggest lesson I learned is NEVER stick your hand in your 160ish degree mast tun to re affix your braid...I think my hand will never be the same ..

It's 2 posts and it starts here...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/734770-post76.html

 

[davesrose]

I had a couple bad batches in a row....right after primary, I could tell from the nasty taste that it was infected. First time I knew it had to be coming from the bucket. So I sanitized and re-sanitized the bugger. The plastic still had an artificial type smell to it....but I tried brewing another beer in it. Same thing. So I finally decided to chuck it and spend the extra money on having glass carboy fermentors. Now only good beers!

It did kind of irk me that whatever plastic was used in this particular fermentor wasn't the best. The first fermentor I had gotten with my beer kit never gave me any problems.

 

[Endovelico]

My first two mini-batches of IPA had fusel problems, and its been about two months into aging and i still get the solventy flavours. No harsh hot tastes however. I kept it at 21 ºC (Air temperature) so it might have gone as high as 24 ºC which is the recommended limit for the SafAle-04.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Revvy, that was just WRONG. Made me cringe just thinking about it!

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I also brewed a hefe using they new WB-06 dry yeast. I thought it was aweful and couldn't drink it, so I gave a whole 5 gals to deathweed, and he said it was great - go figure. It was going in the yard if he didn't take it though.

 

[Revvy]

So all you new brewers lurking on this thread with nervous and baited breath (and I know this is probably getting a HUUUUGE amount of views by you Christmas Present Brewers)...I hope you realize that...

It is really UNLIKELY that the batch you just brewed with your BRAND NEW and sanitized equipment more than likely (99%) will not be infected.

And unless you did some crazy a$$ stuff like we did,.there is a greater than 90% chance you beer won't be RUINED.

AND if it tastes funny, there is AT LEAST a 50% chance (more than likely greater) that if you leave you beer alone in the bottles for a few months it will turn out anywhere from GREAT to surprisingly drinkable...(IF you dump your batch there is a 100% chance you will never know...so the odds are better if you leave it alone.)

And finally SOMETHING WILL INEVITABLY GO WRONG...and so what, you learn from it, you commiserate with your friends about it, you laugh about...and you move on!!!



And that's why we with experience tell you all NOT to worry...becasue the ODDS ARE IN YOUR FAVOR that everything REALLY IS FINE!

 

[nealf]

Made a batch that was pretty bad. I wasn't planning on partigyling the 999 barleywine so I didn't have any yeast or hops ready... So, I just threw in a random assortment of hops (mostly 1st year homegrown) and pulled some yeast straight out of the fridge that had been washed about 4 months earlier.

Didn't let the yeast warm up just dumped it in and I was pretty sure it was going to be jacked up; it was. I suppose all of the yeast was dead because it took about 5 days to show signs of fermentation.

I'm think some lacto took hold on it because thats kinda what it tastes/smells like. So, I have about 2 cases and am hoping that it will sour up decently in a while. They have been in bottles maybe 2 months and will probably stay there for quite some time before I give up.

But, I thought it was a shame to let all that sugar get thrown away after the barleywine hit the boil. Only got 3 gallons so it wasn't a whole batch. The barleywine turned out fine!


So.. It is possible to make a bad batch; but its pretty hard.

 

[menschmaschine]

The only batch I've had that was questionably drinkable was a decocted Altbier. It just has an odd taste to it that I can't pinpoint. It's not infected... in fact, it's not that bad... just odd and slightly off-putting. All of my brewing/fermenting procedures and temperatures were sound, so the only thing I can chalk it up to is scorched grain on the decoctions since it was my first decoction and I don't think I stirred enough (unless Spalt hops taste really weird, since it's all Spalt). It was a 10(+) gallon batch I brewed well over a year ago and the taste just won't go away.

I managed to drink 3 cases of it over the past year, but I still have one left that I'm tempted to dump. It's fine to drink very cold and with a cigar to mask the taste, so I guess I'm hanging onto it for back-up. It's tough to dump a beer that you put so much effort into... decoction, lagering, bottle priming with saved wort, etc.

 

[Zenman]

I had a Kolsch that turn out putrid in both my wife's and mine opinion. Tasted like a green hefe, if there is such a thing. Thing is, my one friend who is a huge weiss beer fan thought it was great, so I gave it all to him and he loved it.

LHBS thinks it was a slight bacteria infection or maybe because of the higher ferment temps I had (was about 80 ambient temp in my house, hey it is hot in phoenix in the summer....) I popped one open that I saved 3 months after the initial bottle was opened, to see how it aged. It was way mellowed on the off flavor, but still pretty gross after taste in my opinion, but it was much, much, much better tasting.

It was my third batch I tried, at least my buddy liked it. Next batch of a light golden ale came out fine... so not sure what went wrong on that Kolsch, someday I'll try it again.

 

[maltMonkey]

Man -- you guys are either a lot more careful, lucky, or just stingier than I am (and I'm pretty stingy). I've thrown out 4 batches.

- 1 was my second batch ever (after a mr beer kit that SHOULD have been thrown out) - an ancient partial boil kit that developed a gusher infection in the bottle.

- 1 was an English Pale Ale pitched onto a 5th or 6th generation yeast cake that somehow turned into paint thinner LITERALLY .

- 1 was a Belgian strong ale that turned out 14 points too low, didn't show any kind of promise for flavor after 3 mos in secondary, developed mold in the airlock, then my cats knocked the airlock & stopper off for ?? days while I was on vacation....plus I had remade the same beer the following week.

- 1 was a brown ale that was my first all grain on equipment I had just built. Had many many problems with the mash (too high temps) and it ended up sticking about 15 points above the expected final gravity. I pitched more yeast, but nothing, then I forgot about it for a few months.

 

[Revvy]

Man -- you guys are either a lot more careful, lucky, or just stingier than I am (and I'm pretty stingy). I've thrown out 4 batches.

- 1 was my second batch ever (after a mr beer kit that SHOULD have been thrown out) - an ancient partial boil kit that developed a gusher infection in the bottle.

- 1 was an English Pale Ale pitched onto a 5th or 6th generation yeast cake that somehow turned into paint thinner LITERALLY .

- 1 was a Belgian strong ale that turned out 14 points too low, didn't show any kind of promise for flavor after 3 mos in secondary, developed mold in the airlock, then my cats knocked the airlock & stopper off for ?? days while I was on vacation....plus I had remade the same beer the following week.

- 1 was a brown ale that was my first all grain on equipment I had just built. Had many many problems with the mash (too high temps) and it ended up sticking about 15 points above the expected final gravity. I pitched more yeast, but nothing, then I forgot about it for a few months.

But again you proved my point...you can see where each thing went wrong...it's not like the average first time brewer who follow his instructions to soak his brand new equipment in sanitizer, and follows his instructions....he/she pretty much isn't going to have a bad batch...no matter how worried about it he is....

AND Matt, this is 4 batches out of how many and over how many years? (uh if it's 4 outta 5 in 6 months of brewing don't bother answering we DON'T wanna scare the newbs... And if that is the case. Pm me privately, someone may have to pimp your process for you.)

 

[JacobInIndy]

I have only dumped one batch. It was a wit that had WAAAAAAAYYYYYY too much orange peel(and pith on top of that). Everytime I drank a bottle, it gave me heartburn from the "pure citric acid" flavor it had.

Now a good story:

My first batch...lot's of things went right, lot's of things went wrong. For one, I racked to secondary only three days into primary. Three days! The beer wasn't too great. It was drinkable, but not great. I left it alone for about two months. Then, I took some to the lake and left it in my trunk for three months. The summers here don't get really hot(about 85 or so most days), but still...it was in my trunk where the temp probably gets to about 110 or so daily. It had a long hard journey in there, that's for sure(I drive like a nut!).

I cracked one yesterday and it was awesome. Has nice flavor, easy to drink, great carbonation and head retention, and best of all...it picked up some sort of light fruit flavor...sort of grape-ish, but better.

Do not dump...unless it tastes like battery acid with a cat pee twist.

 

[Revvy]

I have only dumped one batch. It was a wit that had WAAAAAAAYYYYYY too much orange peel(and pith on top of that). Everytime I drank a bottle, it gave me heartburn from the "pure citric acid" flavor it had.

Now a good story:

My first batch...lot's of things went right, lot's of things went wrong. For one, I racked to secondary only three days into primary. Three days! The beer wasn't too great. It was drinkable, but not great. I left it alone for about two months. Then, I took some to the lake and left it in my trunk for three months. The summers here don't get really hot(about 85 or so most days), but still...it was in my trunk where the temp probably gets to about 110 or so daily. It had a long hard journey in there, that's for sure(I drive like a nut!).

I cracked one yesterday and it was awesome. Has nice flavor, easy to drink, great carbonation and head retention, and best of all...it picked up some sort of light fruit flavor...sort of grape-ish, but better.

Do not dump...unless it tastes like battery acid with a cat pee twist.

Jacob..if you haven't would you cut and paste the "good story" in my https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/ thread?

It deserves being placed in the "canon" of success stories in there.

 

[Yooper]

I don't know how many batches of beer I've brewed or how much wine. I don't really keep track. But, I've never had a bad batch. I have a blonde now that may be a bit astringent, so that may be my first. I had one batch I hated, but it was the fault of the recipe I think, and my best friend loved it (it was the vanilla caramel cream ale) and drank it all.

I've made at least 250 batches of beer, and nearly that much wine, I'd guess. Never had a dumper. Some are not great, but none have been bad. I'm pretty relaxed about many things, but not sanitation or ingredients. Maybe that's why.

If you follow proper sanitation, and give some thought to the ingredients, pitch the correct amount of yeast and give decent temperature control, you'll have decent (if not great) beer.

 

[eschatz]

I got drunk one night brewing a MASSIVE beer. OG was 1100! It started as a RIS and I ended up throwing in a bunch of honey and choc powder and some extra DME. I had no extra hops to balance it out with. I dont know what the hell I was thinking. This thing could not get low enough. It ended up being this brutally malty, overly sweet undrinkable monster.
I keep it in the closet and drink a bottle every 3 months. It's getting better. Maybe in about a half decade it'll be great. But I've got the patience to wait that long.

 

[StoutFan]

I had an experience with dad once that was odd. Brewed up a Molson clone, tried lagering it with ale yeast, and the extract we were using had sat on the shelf for WAY too long. Ended up tasting somewhat cidery and flat. Forgot about the batch at the back of the bottle cabinet for a while, pulled one out, and low and behold time saved all. Very smooth, still a little cidery, but quite tasty.

 

[thataintchicken]

two bad batches in close to 20 years.

Sanitation in one case. Crap yeast in the other.
Lessons learned: Clean and never assume it's sanitized. Even White labs has a bad batch now and then.

keep a stash of yeast handy, and clean clean clean. One can NEVER be to sterile.