Handpump connection advice

[schmurf]

It might be a bad breather, it did arrive faulty but with the help of RLBS I managed to fix it. Can still be some other issue remaining of course, but I don't feel the need to go back to it now, I'm quite happy with how the mylar bags works. I try to transfer to them as oxygen free as possible and I guess I finish one rather quickly.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

So I got my hand pull all set up, I first set it up in my basement and was serving a strong bitter at basement temp, currently 52f and it's great. I hosted our homebrew club meeting this past Tuesday and we have some older gentlemen that I didn't want to have to walk down my basement stairs. So I ran a line up to my kitchen, it's probably a 15 ish foot run and I could probably trim some of the line off but I'm getting some air in the line that I wasn't getting when I was serving from the basement, though the pours are still good. My question is, if I were to move the demand valve to upstairs closer to the handpull would that eliminate my issue? Currently the demand valve is next to the keg in the basement, and I am serving via a corny keg with about 2psi of co2 pressure.

 

[McMullan]

So I got my hand pull all set up, I first set it up in my basement and was serving a strong bitter at basement temp, currently 52f and it's great. I hosted our homebrew club meeting this past Tuesday and we have some older gentlemen that I didn't want to have to walk down my basement stairs. So I ran a line up to my kitchen, it's probably a 15 ish foot run and I could probably trim some of the line off but I'm getting some air in the line that I wasn't getting when I was serving from the basement, though the pours are still good. My question is, if I were to move the demand valve to upstairs closer to the handpull would that eliminate my issue? Currently the demand valve is next to the keg in the basement, and I am serving via a corny keg with about 2psi of co2 pressure.

With a long line, yes, I think it’s better to have the demand valve closer to the pump.

Edit: double check there’s no air entering a poor seal where the line connects to and exits the valve. That’s been an issue for me. Eyeball it while someone else pulls the pump.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I was thinking that.. I'll change it around and see what happens, thanks. Here is a bad pic of a pour from yesterday, the beer is clear, the pic is blurry.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Well as I just got my Mason in yesterday, sorry to resurrect but I'm thinking on this. Two things come to mind - one is from a member on another site, who said his low pressure propane regulator eventually got "furry," i.e., mold, I'm guessing mucor or black mold of some sort. The other is the notion that the constant, if low pressure of the propane regulator helps extend the life of the ale out a bit longer than the breather/"aspirator?

And I will plead very limited DIY...anything. Using a corny. @McMullan, I see your T setup and so forth, but at least to start, is there any kind of a problem just connecting a single 3/8" gas line throughout the system (with proper adaptors, of course. I think I'd likely need 3/8" NPT to 3/8" flares and barbs).

 

[DuncB]

Gas line diameter doesn't matter, provided it fits.
Yes CO2 prolongs " cask" life but not true cask ale.
Not sure about black mould, can't see how it could be inside regulator or lines unless contaminated. If on outside clean off with bleach etc.
Do use a large diameter beer line though to your engine.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Gas line diameter doesn't matter, provided it fits.
Yes CO2 prolongs " cask" life but not true cask ale.
Not sure about black mould, can't see how it could be inside regulator or lines unless contaminated. If on outside clean off with bleach etc.
Do use a large diameter beer line though to your engine.

Thanks. On the "cask life" I was actually referring to a comment I read somewhere, on this forum, I'd thought, that the propane option actually extends the condition out a bit longer than the RLBS breather - I think because of the small but constant CO2 pressure of the propane regulator v. the demand-only of the breather. Probably inconsequential.

On the "true cask ale," yes, I know. Sucks, but on a home level we do what we can. Actually I think my plan is to do what @McMullan showed somewhere - keeping it in the corny and drawing off 2 L or so at a time, with the PET bottle sitting in the cellar with the soft spile-corny keg quick disconnect adaptor overnight for venting and a bit of O2 pickup. Got the adaptor today. Not the same as the constant evolution of a pub cask open to oxidation throughout its life, but close enough for now. I do plan on getting a pin, and setting up horizontal stillage for the occasional event. Need a cooling solution with the footprint for that.

The black mold - he did say it happened after quite a long time of use, and likely he'd somehow gotten beer back-up or something. He wasn't blaming the propane option per se.

I've got John Quest fittings, 1/2" braided hose, and 3/8" beer tubing. With what I have, I can either use a direct BSP-John Quest adaptor attached to the engine, going to 1/2" braided hose (a short piece, drawing from something like a growler or pitcher the night), or a 1/2" braided hose spliced down to a 3/8" hose, connected to the corny.

 

[Peebee]

Thanks. On the "cask life" I was actually referring to a comment I read somewhere, on this forum, I'd thought, that the propane option actually extends the condition out a bit longer than the RLBS breather - I think because of the small but constant CO2 pressure of the propane regulator v. the demand-only of the breather. ...

LPG (Propane) regulators are much better. A breather only slows down the loss of CO2 condition, an LPG regulator holds on to it (the beer will deteriorate for other reasons before the LPG reg fails to do job). I use regulators from Cleese (Spanish, and I know @McMullan does use them too) ... they are not encumbered with useless adapters (BSP threaded ports).

I wrote a lengthy essay about it years ago and posted somewhere here ... Hang on, I've already said this on this thread (it's old too!).

 

[Gadjobrinus]

LPG (Propane) regulators are much better. A breather only slows down the loss of CO2 condition, an LPG regulator holds on to it (the beer will deteriorate for other reasons before the LPG reg fails to do job). I use regulators from Cleese (Spanish, and I know @McMullan does use them too) ... they are not encumbered with useless adapters (BSP threaded ports).

I wrote a lengthy essay about it years ago and posted somewhere here ... Hang on, I've already said this on this thread (it's old too!).

Awesome, thanks. I plan on drilling a hole or holes in my fridge and leading both beer and gas lines to/from the corny in the fridge to my engine. So far no plans for something like an RLBS check valve - presuming the .4 psi or so from the LP regulator isn't enough to have the unchecked beer-engine flow even when not in use. Reasonable?

Yes, I've seen your post(s) and have your excellent information on same on hand. Thanks for your work - been a big help.

 

[Peebee]

... presuming the .4 psi or so from the LP regulator isn't enough to have the unchecked beer-engine flow even when not in use. Reasonable?

0.4psi might be considered a little low, but it's in the range I describe as "perceived as flat" for some and so I accept it as a matter of taste (150mBar from the Cleese regulator is about 2PSI and in the limits CAMRA seem to think is okay in some of their literature* ... I prefer about 0.9-1.0PSI for a light-coloured beer, or a bitter say, lower in dark beer).

But if using "Corny keg" less than 1 PSI may not keep the lid (or post poppets) sealed.

I always suggest "demand valves" (aka hand-pump "check valves") to mitigate "accidents" with unmanaged beer-flow.


* Where I saw it (their "cellar management" book) they also said it was the "volumes" of CO2 held in by "Atmospheric Pressure" ... which is very wrong!

 

[Gadjobrinus]

0.4psi might be considered a little low, but it's in the range I describe as "perceived as flat" for some and so I accept it as a matter of taste (150mBar from the Cleese regulator is about 2PSI and in the limits CAMRA seem to think is okay in some of their literature* ... I prefer about 0.9-1.0PSI for a light-coloured beer, or a bitter say, lower in dark beer).

But if using "Corny keg" less than 1 PSI may not keep the lid (or post poppets) sealed.

I always suggest "demand valves" (aka hand-pump "check valves") to mitigate "accidents" with unmanaged beer-flow.


* Where I saw it (their "cellar management" book) they also said it was the "volumes" of CO2 held in by "Atmospheric Pressure" ... which is very wrong!

OK thanks. Yeah, I'd seen your Clesse recommendation but unfortunately I don't believe they are available to the U.S. market. But I'll look more for one with at least 1 PSI. I'd actually wondered about whether the .5 psi (it's actually .5 psi as I just read) was enough to seal the keg, so thanks for that too.

OK too on the demand valve. UK brewing egregiously overcharges on everything in my opinion (e.g, check valve UK brewing - not even one that can be broken down or otherwise easily cleaned - $67.75 ; RLBS, $17. He charges heavy for shipping, and RLBS does not, so the cost still remains exorbitantly high with UK Brewing.) Kind of sucks he's the sole US distributor for most cask products, but I can get things fairly reasonably directly from RLBS. I'll look into it.