guess who's now brewing professionally?

[unionrdr]

I have to agree with you. For the first couple years I did what I came to call recombinent extract. A few different extracts,both wet & dry with various hops at varying times. Clear beer that had nice flavors & aromas.
Eventually,like myself,going partial mash would save money & give more flavors & aromas. Cooper's is a high flocculation yeast that ferments well down to 65F. It's great for a bit of those English ester flavors. US-05 is virtually the same from my experiments thus far. It just gives cleaner flavors minus the fruity esters. WL029 kolsh yeast is what I use for my hybrid lagers,both light & dark. Gives lager like qualities at ale temps of 65-69F. It's not just for kolsh anymore!

 

[kombat]

One of the top cake designers in the Atlanta area used to do just that. My wife worked for her. She'd buy the mix, add I think one or two ingredients not listed on the box, and be done with it. She could have done it from scratch, but it wasn't worth the hassle.

Right. But she wasn't a "baker." She was a cake decorator.

Gordon Ramsey is a world-class chef. Do you think Gordon Ramsey would be caught dead using canned pasta sauce in one of his restaurants?

The key to being a cake maker was the design and decorating, not the cake mix.

Those are elements for a cake decorator. Not a classically trained professional chef/baker.

A real chef/baker doesn't need to rely on a cake mix. Heck, they wouldn't even use someone else's recipe. They'd have the skills, knowledge, experience, and passion to develop their OWN recipes, and they'd be superior to anything you can find on sale in the bakery aisle at the grocery store.

Just like the key to brewing is recipe and execution

First of all, again, we're talking about not only using someone else's recipe, but ingredients that someone else already processed and even measured out for you to make it foolproof.

Secondly, there's a great deal more skill involved in the initial steps of brewing than there are in the initial steps of baking a cake. With a cake, once you've perfected the recipe (as opposed to just using Betty Crocker's), all you have to be able to do is weigh out some powder and count eggs. With brewing, there's knowing how to treat your water, being able to monitor and adjust mash pH, milling the grain properly, hitting the correct mash temperatures, maximizing extraction efficiency, and so on. If you just let someone else do all that "hard stuff" and you just rehydrate the fruit of all that delicate labour, you're not really "brewing."

I mean, extract brewing is a great way for newcomers to get into the hobby, and it's a lifesaver for people without the time, money, space, desire, or skill to brew from all-grain, but I think it's bizarre to try and run a professional scale brewery that way. Small breweries are supposed to appeal to the counterculture "against-the-grain" crowd who value the passion and creativity that small brewers impart into their beers. If a small brewer is just rehydrating some wort and fermenting it, where's the "craft" in that? Where's the loving dedication to creating something fresh and innovative from the ground up?

 

[jbaysurfer]

Why you gotta be the debbie downer Kombat? I'm stoked for the OP. He's getting PAID to make beer, and that makes him a professional. If you like you can tell yourself he's just a "Beer Mixer", but I'm pretty sure nearly every one of us called our first batch an "Extract Brew".
-
There are many places using extract in their commercial systems. Some are all extract, others are partial. Many more use hop EXTRACT, or don't make their Belgian Candi sugar themselves...but that doesn't mean they're not brewing beer.
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A little less judgment and a little more support are in order IMHO.
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CONGRATS Dantose!!!!

 

[dantose]

Why you gotta be the debbie downer Kombat? I'm stoked for the OP. He's getting PAID to make beer, and that makes him a professional. If you like you can tell yourself he's just a "Beer Mixer", but I'm pretty sure nearly every one of us called our first batch an "Extract Brew".
-
There are many places using extract in their commercial systems. Some are all extract, others are partial. Many more use hop EXTRACT, or don't make their Belgian Candi sugar themselves...but that doesn't mean they're not brewing beer.
-
A little less judgment and a little more support are in order IMHO.
-
CONGRATS Dantose!!!!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Jesus, with this tone, you'd think you'd have to plant the grain, grow the grain, malt the grain, crush the grain, and then carry it on from there to be 'professional'.

Get over yourselves, the guy found a job that he loves doing.

 

[MuddyCreek]

Right tool for the job. You can make great beer with extract, with all-grain or with both. Congratulations Dantose. I'm very happy for you. Kombat, I'm happy for you too. I assume you make beer as well and that brings you joy. So it appears everybody's happy. Let's all RDWAHAHB!

 

[Ridire]

Wow. I'd be excited. Don't let the poo poos take away from it.

 

[kombat]

Congrats to the OP, I can't fault anybody for following their dreams. Good luck, I hope I get to taste it someday!

 

[ktblunden]

Congrats OP. My only misgiving regarding the use of extract is it must put the cost of ingredients through the roof. When you can see drastic savings at the homebrew level, it must really add up when you're talking about 198lbs of extract in one recipe.

 

[Conestoga]

Right. But she wasn't a "baker." She was a cake decorator.

Gordon Ramsey is a world-class chef. Do you think Gordon Ramsey would be caught dead using canned pasta sauce in one of his restaurants?



Those are elements for a cake decorator. Not a classically trained professional chef/baker.

A real chef/baker doesn't need to rely on a cake mix. Heck, they wouldn't even use someone else's recipe. They'd have the skills, knowledge, experience, and passion to develop their OWN recipes, and they'd be superior to anything you can find on sale in the bakery aisle at the grocery store.



First of all, again, we're talking about not only using someone else's recipe, but ingredients that someone else already processed and even measured out for you to make it foolproof.

Secondly, there's a great deal more skill involved in the initial steps of brewing than there are in the initial steps of baking a cake. With a cake, once you've perfected the recipe (as opposed to just using Betty Crocker's), all you have to be able to do is weigh out some powder and count eggs. With brewing, there's knowing how to treat your water, being able to monitor and adjust mash pH, milling the grain properly, hitting the correct mash temperatures, maximizing extraction efficiency, and so on. If you just let someone else do all that "hard stuff" and you just rehydrate the fruit of all that delicate labour, you're not really "brewing."

I mean, extract brewing is a great way for newcomers to get into the hobby, and it's a lifesaver for people without the time, money, space, desire, or skill to brew from all-grain, but I think it's bizarre to try and run a professional scale brewery that way. Small breweries are supposed to appeal to the counterculture "against-the-grain" crowd who value the passion and creativity that small brewers impart into their beers. If a small brewer is just rehydrating some wort and fermenting it, where's the "craft" in that? Where's the loving dedication to creating something fresh and innovative from the ground up?

I agree with this 100%, and I'm also proud and happy for OP at the very same time. Imagine that, I can feel two things at once ...

 

[cjgenever]

Kombat has good points. However, I am happy for the op. Congrats on the new job!

I would agree that an extract Brewer is a lesser Brewer than an ag Brewer. Extract beer can be just as good as ag, but ag takes more knowledge and experience.

None of that matters though. You do what you need to to get the job done. If that means extract, so be it. There is no shame in it as long as the beer is good.

Fwiw... Professional means getting paid for you're doing. There's no reason why a professional Brewer couldn't use extract. Nor is there any reason why they shouldn't. I would use extract for most of my brews if it wasn't so much more expensive. As long as its fresh it makes good beer

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[zwiller]

Congrats and best of luck!

A good brewer can make good beer, period. A BOP near me is all extract and their beers are far better than all but the best homebrewed stuff. Kinda scary to think a bunch of total novices at a BOP for a bachelor party can hand you a beer "they made" and it's damn good or even better than your AG... Plenty of things to geek out about and tweak in extract brewing. In some ways, he's a lucky SOB since his brewdays are short and he doesn't have service the other gear... The electric part is still kinda crazy to me but is also genius since it is easier to install, get permits, etc. It goes without saying that if he does well, the owners will likely upgrade to a larger AG system.

 

[dantose]

Congrats OP. My only misgiving regarding the use of extract is it must put the cost of ingredients through the roof. When you can see drastic savings at the homebrew level, it must really add up when you're talking about 198lbs of extract in one recipe.

Buying bulk it really isn't that bad. A 3.5% basic batch is under $400. There's about 1000 pints in 4 bbl so it's about $0.40 a glass in ingredients. To be honest, at this scale the savings in ingredients would probably be less than the increased cost in labor.

 

[ScubaSteve]

The strongest effect on flavor is how beer is fermented, aged, etc. If you can manage those variables and are using quality extract, I see no reason why you couldn't make great beer. You might even be able to pull off some sort of steeping grain setup for improved flavor.

 

[dobe12]

I've been BIAB all grain brewing for about 3 years now. Did a few extract kits before making the switch. This thread has inspired me to go back and make an extract batch from an original recipe. I never thought about it, but I didn't start making my own recipes until switching to all grain. So, I'm going to give it a shot. I'm actually kind of excited thinking about how quick/easy the brew day will be!

Thanks to the OP for inspiring me and congrats on the new job! Haters are gonna hate... don't let it bother you. If someone asked them to brew beer and get paid for it, but they must use extract while the brewery gets its feet under itself, you're damn sure they'd jump at the opportunity.

CONGRATS!

 

[dantose]

There is a light beer that we keep standard, but I've also got a beer using about equal parts centennial (60 min) cascade (30 min) and saaz (finish) 17 IBU, 3.5%. Still trying to come up with a name.

Update on this, the recipe was built based on what was sitting out back in storage. Name ended up being Misfire! (2014) and planning to do a similar use up the extras batch yearly. BIG hit too. Has been selling very well. Next batch is going to be a black IPA and then looking at a Porter or a Blueberry ale.

 

[JohnSand]

Great, thanks for the updates. It is always exciting to hear that a homebrewer has stepped up and become professional.