Grrrr....DANG PHENOLS!!!

[Samophlange]

Hi all,
I'm new to the forums, but have been "brewing" for a while.
I put it in quotes, since I have brewed up at least 25 batches of extract beer, but have only had 2 I would consider drinkable.

I've read a ton and even taken brewing courses, but I can't for the life of me figure out why the stupid phenols will not get out of my finished product!
I can actually see the infection bacterial floating around at the top of some of my bottles. The best beer I had was kegged, but so was one of the worst. Not all of the bottled beers are infected, but if they are, its an entire batch.

I have...
- Used 3 water sources (Bottled and even chlorinated city water for the heck of it)
- Replaced all of my equipment (siphon tubes, autosiphons, carboys, buckets, bottles)
- Used plastic and glass carboys
- Used Idophor, San-star and even bleach to santize. (At proper mixes and rinsing bleach.)
- Ferment at 60-70 degrees with dry and liquid yeast
- And even used campden tablets to try to drive of chlorine in case it was a chlorophenol instead of a wild yeast/bacteria related phenol

During brewing, I don't leave gains in too long and watch the temps carefully. I don't squeeze out bags (hop or grain), and I cool the wort down quickly with a sanitized wort chiller and pitch at a safe temp.

I've talked to alot of homebrewers and professional brewers who have mentioned the typical things (Wild yeast, bacterial infection, tannins, proper temps). I've done them all.

HELP!

 

[Paul07293]

Phenols are usually a by product of warm or weak fermentation. Are you pitching the yeast at ferment temps or pitching at warm temps (80+) and cooling to 60-70? Are you making a yeast starter or just pitching the vial/packet into your wort?

 

[bullinachinashop]

Wort aeration?

 

[jcdouglas]

Do you have a friend that homebrews? Is there a homebrew club in your area? I recommend brewing with another brewer and observe their brewing techniques, even if they are brewing all grain. Post an ad on craigslist if you need to, there are a lot of us who are willing to help out a fellow brewer.

 

[Samophlange]

Thanks for the quick replies!
I cool to ferment temps then pitch.
On lower gravity beers I tend to pitch a pack of yeast. I have just recently been pitching larger quantities of yeast, and our local brewpub's brewmaster has been giving me the excess of his 1056 from his beers. I used that on a Black IPA that bubbled away straight for two weeks. (In secondary now- fingers crossed!)
I do aerate the wort. I have a pump and inline air filter hooked to a diffusion stone. I let it run 10-15 mins at cooled temps.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the quick replies!
I cool to ferment temps then pitch.
On lower gravity beers I tend to pitch a pack of yeast. I have just recently been pitching larger quantities of yeast, and our local brewpub's brewmaster has been giving me the excess of his 1056 from his beers. I used that on a Black IPA that bubbled away straight for two weeks. (In secondary now- fingers crossed!)
I do aerate the wort. I have a pump and inline air filter hooked to a diffusion stone. I let it run 10-15 mins at cooled temps.

Phenols almost always come from either chlorinated water (or with chloramines), infection, or stressed yeast.

If you're pitching enough healthy yeast at the correct temperature, then it must be either chlorinated water or an infection.

Can you buy some bottled distilled water to make sure it's not water related?

If that fixes the problem, you know it's water. If not, you know it's an infection.

 

[Paul07293]

Have you thought about trying Belgians? Just kidding . This is from the AHA Homebrewopedia. It sounds like you've addressed everything they list as causes of phenols. Hopefully someone who has experienced a similar problem will chime in.

phenols. (fee'-nolz)

Volatiles found in small quantities in beer. Higher concentrations, due to the brewing water, infection of the wort by bacteria or wild yeasts, cleaning agents, or crown and can linings, impart off-flavors characterized as phenolic, medicinal, or pharmaceutical. Sixty volatile phenolic compounds are present in beer, and their concentration is greater in dark beers than in pale beers.

 

[microbusbrewery]

I can actually see the infection bacterial floating around at the top of some of my bottles.

If you're seeing bacterial infections and you've replaced all your equipment, then at the very least you have sanitation issues somewhere in the process. I think the recommendation to brew with someone else is the best route to go. I'd say do a brew session at a successful fellow brewer's place then also have the fellow brewer come to your place. Hopefully that will help you pinpoint the issue(s). Gotta give you props for sticking with it despite only having a 8% success rate.

 

[kladue]

The likely culprit is the air stone, it is probably harboring wild a wild yeast strain that gives the phenols. Boil it for 20 minutes, and then after each use clean it and store it in a sealed container after a short soak in iodaphor solution. Leaving it exposed to dry just invites all manner of beasties an opportunity to set up shop and reinfect the wort at next use. Dipping the air stone in sanitizer will not hit all the internal areas reliably, so sealing it up helps keep it uninfected longer.

 

[High_Iron]

My guess was the stone too. try using a wire whisk instead of the stone on your next batch.

 

[HeyNoPie]

I wondered about the stone as well when I saw it. I just shake the heck out of the bucket and it seems to have worked well enough for me. You might give that a shot

 

[Samophlange]

I'll definitely give that a shot. In the past I've had issues with oxidizing, but never phenols like I have recently. I think I'll pick up a low gravity extract kit that will wrap up in a week or two so I can test out the theory.

Thanks all! I'll update when it stops a-bublin' and is post-carbonated.