Gravity & ProMash?

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GABrewboy

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I am curious about something as I am still new to ProMash. What is the
" Measurement taken in Fermentor " used for in the software? Is this a post boil reading or what? Thanks....still trying to get my numbers up to where they should be......still at around 67% effic. and would like to up!!! UGH!
 
GABrewboy said:
I am curious about something as I am still new to ProMash. What is the
" Measurement taken in Fermentor " used for in the software? Is this a post boil reading or what? Thanks....still trying to get my numbers up to where they should be......still at around 67% effic. and would like to up!!! UGH!
When calculating eff. I always use the measurements in the fermentor. I've found that this is more accurate for me and my system. Just try to be as accurate as you can with this. It's a great tool to help adjust your settings for your system so that you can make minor changes and up your eff.....
 
Hmmmm......okay!! Well now I think I am totally confused on a few things then......the brew I did yesterday was Scotish Heavy Ale. My OG should have read based on the ProMash at 1.56, after having my final runnings to 1.005 like it said to do, my gravity was at 1.48. Then it says post boil should have been 1.63, I got 1.54. My eff. it says was 68%. Now, if I click on the fermentor side of this it tells me my eff. is at 87%, which I am a little confused about now because wouldn't my gravity be a little better then this if I was at almost 90%? Maybe I am still learning, well there is no maybe about it, I am still learning........:drunk:
 
I find the most accurate time to take a reading is in the kettle before boiling. As long as your kettle is marked you know your volume, and the only loss that enters the equation is the deadspace in your MLT (assuming an MLT system like most of us use).
 
Baron, I took two readings! One was pre-boil after wort was collected, then one post boil just before yeast pitching. My pre-boil was at 1.48 and my post boil was at 1.54. So if I am understanding you right then, the kettle reading is the most accurate and I am at 67% eff.....
 
GaBrew, I was at the same point yesterday and after I set and thought about it, if you are want the eff of your mash it would make more sense to get the reading in the kettle pre-boil, that way you get a more accurate account of your mash set-up. My eff in the kettle was %76 and in the fermenter was %96, I know there is no way in hell I could be at %96. Just my thoughts...
 
That was my thinking exactly.....no way I went from 67% to 87% just from boiling the wort....So now I just need to figure out why I am only at 75%, but I think I might have an idea why, just not sure how to fix the problem.....think my SS braided hose is not laying on the bottom of my cooler. It sticks up about an inch or two from the bottom, so there is about an inch or two of worth that get's left behind each time I mash or sparge.....hmmm......just not sure how to get it to lay flat though......
 
You got it...at least the way most of here measure efficiency, i.e., how much sugar did we get out of the mash vs. how much was in the mash. Once you get the wort in the kettle you're done with that phase and everything following (boiling, siphoning, etc.) is unrelated. I'm guessing the average is ~70% for homebrewers. With tweaks you can get it higher, or just up your grain bill to compensate for efficiency.

However, there is also 'brewhouse efficiency' which commercial brewers use and I learned a little bit about last weekend while touring a brewery with some other hbt'ers. In that case, they look at the total amount of sugars in the grains (like we do) vs total amount of sugars that actually make it to the finished product (not like we do). This takes into account boiling/evaporative losses, line losses, deadspace losses, bottling losses, etc. So when a brewhouse says their efficiency is 70% (apparently an average #), it's would probably be more like 90-92% the way we measure it (sugars extracted from mash tun).

The Kaiser will correct me if erred in my explanation.
 
Very interesting tid bits there Baron......So in other words, I need to get my eff. for sure up more then 67% as with loses and such I am now about 50%.....geeeesssss.....I would like to try and solve my problem without having to spend more money for grains, even though not that expensive I would like to get the most out of my extracting of the sugar if I can before having to up my grain bill.........:D
 
Actually, I'm saying that 67% is not that bad for a homebrewer, although it could certainly be improved and there's nothing wrong with wanting to bump it up some. I would look at the quality of your crush and probably manifold design as two places to find a few more points.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Actually, I'm saying that 67% is not that bad for a homebrewer, although it could certainly be improved and there's nothing wrong with wanting to bump it up some. I would look at the quality of your crush and probably manifold design as two places to find a few more points.

Then I feel pretty good about my set up, I have done 3 ag batches and all have been above 75-76%. Now I am planning on getting a new false bottom from Sabco, that should get me up some since it has more surface area to filter thru and less chance for channeling....( I hope)
 
Yes, I think my manifold is a problem!!! At least I think so, but maybe not. It is the SS braided hose, but it doesn't sit flat on the bottom of the cooler. Because of the design of the cooler, the drain plug was at an angle and the SS braided hose is kind of the shape of a banana when the cooler is empty. The copper and drain plug are angled upwards slightly, and that makes my SS braided hose on that same angle and I don't get to drain all the wort from the very bottom of the cooler......I assume this might be a problem right?
 
The other little variable in there is the volume. Make sure your volumes are correct. If you are doing a 5 gallon barch, but you end up with 5.5 gallons, the gravity will be a little lower, giving a false low efficiency.
 
GABrewboy said:
Very interesting tid bits there Baron......So in other words, I need to get my eff. for sure up more then 67% as with loses and such I am now about 50%.....geeeesssss.....I would like to try and solve my problem without having to spend more money for grains, even though not that expensive I would like to get the most out of my extracting of the sugar if I can before having to up my grain bill.........:D

I'm a little confused as to what eff. your actually getting. You have said 67%, 9?% and now 50%..........Remember that eff. is not just a gravity reading. It also takes into account the amount of wort you get from your mash and the amount you get into your fermenter.........So, water (wort) and gravity make up the eff. numbers.
 
Rusty said:
I'm a little confused as to what eff. your actually getting. You have said 67%, 9?% and now 50%..........Remember that eff. is not just a gravity reading. It also takes into account the amount of wort you get from your mash and the amount you get into your fermenter.........So, water (wort) and gravity make up the eff. numbers.
That is brewhouse efficiency (sugars into fermentor). Most homebrewers that I know of are discussing mash efficiency which is simply how much sugar you extract after mashing and lautering vs what is possible. I think GA is assuming if his mash efficiency is 67%, then his brewhouse efficiency is probably somewhere around 50%, the difference in which is purely dependent on the losses between the pre-boil kettle and the fermentor.

Since brewhouse efficiency involves a lot more work, I usually just stick with mash efficiency (plus it sounds more impressive...higher #) :cross:
 
Well then, I'm always working my ass off to get around 73-75% BREWHOUSE eff..............

Baron von BeeGee said:
That is brewhouse efficiency (sugars into fermentor). Most homebrewers that I know of are discussing mash efficiency which is simply how much sugar you extract after mashing and lautering vs what is possible. I think GA is assuming if his mash efficiency is 67%, then his brewhouse efficiency is probably somewhere around 50%, the difference in which is purely dependent on the losses between the pre-boil kettle and the fermentor.

Since brewhouse efficiency involves a lot more work, I usually just stick with mash efficiency (plus it sounds more impressive...higher #) :cross:
 
Rusty said:
Well then, I'm always working my ass off to get around 73-75% BREWHOUSE eff..............
Worthy target! According to the tour a few of us went on last week of a local brewery that is an excellent efficiency for a commercial brewery...Pretty sure he said it requires over 90% mash efficiency to achieve in his setup. It does look like a commercial brewery has more places for losses to occur (lots of pumping wort/beer around), but I'm not sure how it compares percentage-wise to a home system.
 
So no one has said yet, does my SS braided hose need to be flat on the bottom of my cooler? And if it does, what is the best way to obtain this if my drain plug is about 1-2" from the bottom and the drain plug is angled slightly upwards......
 
It would help if it were flat on the bottom (less deadspace, and the heavier sugar solution tends to migrate down. Hopefully you are batch sparging? If you are fly sparging I think you'll be much happier with a copper or c-pvc manifold.
 
Yes, I am batch sparging!!!! So I wonder if there is a way then to get this thing to the bottom of the cooler??? Anyone know????
 

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