Gravity Issues

[Mystwaker]

So this is my second similar thread. I have been brewing extract for the better part of the last year and have had consistently low OG reading, usually 10-20 points lower than what recipe said. My FG typically comes out close to within 1-2 points. I was told in the last thread that due to being an extract brew the OG would be fairly reliable by the recipe as the source and told that I likely am not getting the finished wort mixed up well enough and that when the yeast takes off things will mix up better. Well I did any IPA recipe this past weekend and yet again for the 6th batch in a row I have a low OG reading.
5 Gallon Batch
.5 lbs Victory Malt
.5 lbs Crystal Malt 10L
12 lbs Pale liquid extract
1oz Magnum (60min)
1oz Centennial (45min)
.5oz Simcoe (30min)
.5oz Simcoe (15)
Whirlfloc Tablet (15Min)
.25oz Centennial (10Min)
.25oz Cascade (10Min)
.25oz Centennial (5min)
.25oz Cascade (5min)
.5oz Centennial (Dry Hop)
.5oz Cascade (Dry Hop)
2 pkg English Ale Yeast, White Labs WLP002

I did a 3.5 Gallon Boil at 205-208 degrees, I live at altitude so this was a fairly decent rolling boil, with no boil over and had to top off with 2 gallons at the end. I cooled wort in an ice bath that took 30 minutes. According to BeerSmith this recipe OG should have been at 1.076 and a final gravity at 1.025. The OG reading I took was 1.054 at 68 degrees. The baby has been fermenting nicely for 3 days now and I have no means of being able to take a gravity reading from the carboy. Am I missing something or doing something wrong to lead consistent low OG readings or is it truly not that big of deal for extract as it is for AG? Also why is it that according to the recipe my FG is supposed to be so high? Does this leave open room for possible bottle bombs during conditioning?

 

[eric19312]

Check the calibration on your hydrometer.

Did you transfer full contents of boil kettle to fermenter or leave behind hops and trub? If you left a lot behind some of your sugars would be lost.

Finally did you scorch the LME to the bottom of the brew kettle?


It's not easy to be off by that much with extract...

 

[d3track]

Are you positive about the amount of extract used?

What does your hydrometer read in distiller water?

 

[Mystwaker]

Check the calibration on your hydrometer.

Did you transfer full contents of boil kettle to fermenter or leave behind hops and trub? If you left a lot behind some of your sugars would be lost.

Finally did you scorch the LME to the bottom of the brew kettle?


It's not easy to be off by that much with extract...

I did transfer full contents and as far as I know I did not scorch the LME, I had my helper stirring and I added slowly around so it could get mixed in without building up on the bottom of the kettle. As far as my hydrometer goes it reads 1.000 on room temp tap water.

 

[Mystwaker]

Are you positive about the amount of extract used?

What does your hydrometer read in distiller water?

I am fairly certain about the extract. The brew shop I use measures it out and seals it for you right there. I have not checked the hydrometer in distilled water just room temp tap water and it reads 1.000.

 

[Mystwaker]

Are you positive about the amount of extract used?

What does your hydrometer read in distiller water?

I am fairly certain about the extract. The brew shop I use measures it out and seals it for you right there. I have not checked the hydrometer in distilled water just room temp tap water and it reads 1.000.

 

[chawn]

That's a pretty big gravity discrepancy. Are you sure that your volume was correct and the top-off was well blended into the wort?

If your top-off wasn't stirred in well enough, that could easily lead to a low gravity reading.

 

[Mystwaker]

That's a pretty big gravity discrepancy. Are you sure that your volume was correct and the top-off was well blended into the wort?

If your top-off wasn't stirred in well enough, that could easily lead to a low gravity reading.

Volume was correct as best I can tell. I measured out my 3.5 gallons for the boil and have placed graduated marks on my carboy for easier reading during my transfer but still measure everything off. I measured out my top off before adding which was 2 gallons. I placed a bung in the carboy and rocked/shaked the mix vigorously for a few minutes. Maybe I'm not mixing long enough? Would the whirlfloc have anything to do with the low reading?

 

[madscientist451]

12 lbs of LME had to go somewhere. If you have been getting low gravity readings all along, maybe get another hydrometer? Ask a brewing friend to borrow theirs? That's the only explanation I can come up with, sorry.

 

[flars]

Weigh the container of LME next time you purchase from bulk. The brew stores scale may be off.

 

[chawn]

Shaking vigorously for 2 minutes is definitely sufficient! I've never used whirlfloc, but I don't believe it will affect your gravity.

I'm assuming that you are taking your gravity reading at the proper temperature or adjusting it accordingly. So you need to check the calibration of your hydrometer. Using distilled water is preferable, but tap water will still put you in the ballpark.

If your hydrometer isn't the problem, then I'd suggest using a different supplier for your extract.

 

[RM-MN]

Volume was correct as best I can tell. I measured out my 3.5 gallons for the boil and have placed graduated marks on my carboy for easier reading during my transfer but still measure everything off. I measured out my top off before adding which was 2 gallons. I placed a bung in the carboy and rocked/shaked the mix vigorously for a few minutes. Maybe I'm not mixing long enough? Would the whirlfloc have anything to do with the low reading?

Mixing the concentrated wort with the top off water is incredibly difficult. Two minutes of rocking/shaking won't even begin to get it mixed. That's not a problem except in your mind because you hydrometer shows less OG than you really got. The yeast will find the sugars, they will start eating them, and in doing so they give off CO2 which is sufficient to do the mixing. When you do an extract batch, unless the kit maker really screwed up, you got enough sugars in the extract to mix with your water to make your OG what the kit says as long as you get the right amount of water.:rockin:

 

[chawn]

Mixing the concentrated wort with the top off water is incredibly difficult. Two minutes of rocking/shaking won't even begin to get it mixed. That's not a problem except in your mind because you hydrometer shows less OG than you really got. The yeast will find the sugars, they will start eating them, and in doing so they give off CO2 which is sufficient to do the mixing. When you do an extract batch, unless the kit maker really screwed up, you got enough sugars in the extract to mix with your water to make your OG what the kit says as long as you get the right amount of water.:rockin:

That's interesting. I only made 5 or 6 extract batches before moving to AG. But I hit my gravity every time using only spoon to stir with for less than a minute. I would assume that vigorously shaking the wort for 2 minutes would more than sufficient.

I'm not really arguing. You've obviously had a different experience than me. I would have found it very troubling had I not been able to read my OG.

 

[Mystwaker]

Mixing the concentrated wort with the top off water is incredibly difficult. Two minutes of rocking/shaking won't even begin to get it mixed. That's not a problem except in your mind because you hydrometer shows less OG than you really got. The yeast will find the sugars, they will start eating them, and in doing so they give off CO2 which is sufficient to do the mixing. When you do an extract batch, unless the kit maker really screwed up, you got enough sugars in the extract to mix with your water to make your OG what the kit says as long as you get the right amount of water.:rockin:

See this is the second time I have heard that, that it's not uncommon and that so long as you have followed recipe you are golden. I plan to start trying to move towards partial mash and possibly just AG BIAB, do you think it would be worth picking up something that I can test my gravity from the carboy after fermentation has started?

 

[amcclai7]

You're doing top off water and its not mixing thoroughly. Happened to me and seen and heard it happen to others as well. With extract its nearly impossible to miss your gravity by that much. Do your finished beers taste way thinner and way less alcoholic than they are supposed to be? If the answer is no, then I'd be 99.999% sure that's what it is.

 

[Mystwaker]

You're doing top off water and its not mixing thoroughly. Happened to me and seen and heard it happen to others as well. With extract its nearly impossible to miss your gravity by that much. Do your finished beers taste way thinner and way less alcoholic than they are supposed to be? If the answer is no, then I'd be 99.999% sure that's what it is.

Yeah they have all tasted fine. Not to thin or lacking at all, character and all seemed to line up pretty close to BJCP.

 

[Mystwaker]

Soji just did a check on my hydrometer with distilled water and it still measured 1.000. So when measuring my gravity on these extract batches is more important for my FG so I'm sure fermentation is done or close go done?

 

[amcclai7]

Soji just did a check on my hydrometer with distilled water and it still measured 1.000. So when measuring my gravity on these extract batches is more important for my FG so I'm sure fermentation is done or close go done?

Unless I'm using a lot of specialty grains I don't generally take OG reading on extract batches. Its just not necessary. FG However is very important and I always check that.

 

[flars]

Soji just did a check on my hydrometer with distilled water and it still measured 1.000. So when measuring my gravity on these extract batches is more important for my FG so I'm sure fermentation is done or close go done?

Making sure your fermentation has reached final gravity is more important than the original gravity. The OG for an extract kit is either given in the recipe, and can be calculated from the ingredients. Here is a link to a OG calculator. It also estimates the FG, but this is just an estimate, not a target.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/extract-ogfg/
SG measurements, separated by a day or two, are the only way to determine FG. Don't be in a rush though. Take your first SG reading about day 10 from the start of the fermentation. Time is the primary is good. Bottling a beer that finishes the fermentation in the bottle is very bad, the pressures developed in the bottle can cause them to explode.

 

[Mystwaker]

So with this recipe is it a concern that the estimated FG is at 1.025? That seems too high to me.

 

[RM-MN]

So with this recipe is it a concern that the estimated FG is at 1.025? That seems too high to me.

Yes it is too high unless you measured it with a refractometer instead of a hydrometer. I would expect that recipe to have a FG of 1.012 to 1.015. You may have a stalled fermentation.

 

[Mystwaker]

Yes it is too high unless you measured it with a refractometer instead of a hydrometer. I would expect that recipe to have a FG of 1.012 to 1.015. You may have a stalled fermentation.

No that 1.025 is what the recipe estimated for FG. I have not encountered a stuck fermentation or high FG like this before. If for some reason it does stick at this for some reason would just re-pitching a yeast finish it out or do I need to do something different?