Grapefruit Pulpin IPA

[Rob2010SS]

Hey everyone, I'm Rob (obviously). New here as of last week and just beginning into the adventure that is home brewing. I'm starting out with extract, but eventually would like to venture into all grain.

I just did my first batch this weekend of Norther Brewer's Grapefruit Pulpin IPA. Gotta say, pretty pumped for it. The first part seems to have gone well! Attached are some pictures I took during the process. The OG reading came out almost exactly where it should have - 1.065.

I do have some questions that came up during the process that I hope someone can shed some light on.

1. When steeping the grains at the beginning of the process, from what I've read, it says to steep for 20 min OR until the water hits 170 degrees, whatever comes first. I guess I have multiple questions to this. When I hit the 20 min mark, the water was at 150 so it still had 20 degrees to go. I pulled them out at the 20 min mark but what happens if you leave them in longer? Anything?

2. When you pitch your yeast into the fermenter, you never want to shake it or mix it, correct? Just let it do it's thing?

3. I bought the 3 piece airlock to use instead of the standard that comes with the kits. Is it possible to have the 3 piece filled TOO much? I did not see any markings on it as far as max fill lines or anything.

Thanks for the info in advance. Looking forward to learning from you guys.

 

[TwistedGray]

1. When steeping the grains at the beginning of the process, from what I've read, it says to steep for 20 min OR until the water hits 170 degrees, whatever comes first. I guess I have multiple questions to this. When I hit the 20 min mark, the water was at 150 so it still had 20 degrees to go. I pulled them out at the 20 min mark but what happens if you leave them in longer? Anything?

2. When you pitch your yeast into the fermenter, you never want to shake it or mix it, correct? Just let it do it's thing?

3. I bought the 3 piece airlock to use instead of the standard that comes with the kits. Is it possible to have the 3 piece filled TOO much? I did not see any markings on it as far as max fill lines or anything.

Thanks for the info in advance. Looking forward to learning from you guys.

I can answer some of your questions...

1. I get my water to 160, turn it off, and seep for 30 minutes. I've done the same for each of my extract brews, and the directions have always been one in the same.

2. You can slosh it around, but there isn't reason to do so. The fermentation will kick in assuming you didn't pitch when it was still too hot. I usually let mine sit for 24 hours to chill then I'll pitch.

3. Hard to comment without a picture for reference.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Thanks for the info Twisted. I'll keep that in mind for my next batch, in regards to how to steep the grains.

As far as sloshing it around after pitching, I'm confident I didn't pitch too hot. I kept the kettle in the ice bath until it hit about 75-78*F (depending on where you checked it), then transferred to the fermenter.

As for the airlock, see the picture here. I marked up the picture to show what I did just a bit ago. So, let me take a step back. I said I didn't see any fill lines on it when I first filled the airlock, I clearly didn't look good enough. There is a clear fill line in the middle. So, my problem was in the class that I took at Northern Brewer in Milwaukee on Saturday, the guy said don't fill it past those notch things that you see inside the red box. So, that's what I did. I filled it up to that point. However, when I went home at lunch just now, I was going to grab a pic of the airlock to post here and sure enough, I looked and saw the fill line. So I re-setup the airlock. I filled it to the blue line you see in the picture. As soon as I did this, the "bobber" piece started floating so I think that's the proper setup now, unless someone tells me otherwise.

Thanks.

 

[TwistedGray]

Thanks for the info Twisted. I'll keep that in mind for my next batch, in regards to how to steep the grains.

As far as sloshing it around after pitching, I'm confident I didn't pitch too hot. I kept the kettle in the ice bath until it hit about 75-78*F (depending on where you checked it), then transferred to the fermenter.

As for the airlock, see the picture here. I marked up the picture to show what I did just a bit ago. So, let me take a step back. I said I didn't see any fill lines on it when I first filled the airlock, I clearly didn't look good enough. There is a clear fill line in the middle. So, my problem was in the class that I took at Northern Brewer in Milwaukee on Saturday, the guy said don't fill it past those notch things that you see inside the red box. So, that's what I did. I filled it up to that point. However, when I went home at lunch just now, I was going to grab a pic of the airlock to post here and sure enough, I looked and saw the fill line. So I re-setup the airlock. I filled it to the blue line you see in the picture. As soon as I did this, the "bobber" piece started floating so I think that's the proper setup now, unless someone tells me otherwise.

Thanks.

You should be good on the FILL LINE, you should see it bob up and down now.

re: Yeast
Sounds okay to me, and given that you are seeing it bob up and down already you're fine...the yeast is active.

ps: I slosh mine around once the yeast settles, but you really don't need to do anything at this stage but wait.

 

[zgja2]

Thanks for the info Twisted. I'll keep that in mind for my next batch, in regards to how to steep the grains.

As far as sloshing it around after pitching, I'm confident I didn't pitch too hot. I kept the kettle in the ice bath until it hit about 75-78*F (depending on where you checked it), then transferred to the fermenter.

As for the airlock, see the picture here. I marked up the picture to show what I did just a bit ago. So, let me take a step back. I said I didn't see any fill lines on it when I first filled the airlock, I clearly didn't look good enough. There is a clear fill line in the middle. So, my problem was in the class that I took at Northern Brewer in Milwaukee on Saturday, the guy said don't fill it past those notch things that you see inside the red box. So, that's what I did. I filled it up to that point. However, when I went home at lunch just now, I was going to grab a pic of the airlock to post here and sure enough, I looked and saw the fill line. So I re-setup the airlock. I filled it to the blue line you see in the picture. As soon as I did this, the "bobber" piece started floating so I think that's the proper setup now, unless someone tells me otherwise.

Thanks.

So you want to fill it to the fill line. By not covering the holes like you have shown it is esentially open and not doing what it is designed to do.

As for temp at time of yeast pitch. I do not know what yeast you pitched but if you used any of the yeasts NB offers as options for this kit 75-78 is way too hot. S-05, 1056 and the like will throw some serious off flavors at that temp and higher.

Ferm temp control is one of the best things you can do to improve your beer. I recommend reading that section extensively. Cheers!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Zgja, I used the S-05 yeast for this. So that was the temp that I moved to the fermenter. However, I did the whole "concentrated wort" thing where the boil was only about 2-2.5 gallons so I topped off with water after transferring the wort which I would imagine brought the temp down quite a bit more, hopefully into safe ranges.

As far as fermentation temp, it's in a darker room of the house and kept at about 71-72 degrees, depending on time of day. As far as maintaining the temp in the fermenter outside of what the house AC is set at, not sure how to go about that just yet. I haven't red that section yet.

Thanks.

 

[zgja2]

Zgja, I used the S-05 yeast for this. So that was the temp that I moved to the fermenter. However, I did the whole "concentrated wort" thing where the boil was only about 2-2.5 gallons so I topped off with water after transferring the wort which I would imagine brought the temp down quite a bit more, hopefully into safe ranges.

As far as fermentation temp, it's in a darker room of the house and kept at about 71-72 degrees, depending on time of day. As far as maintaining the temp in the fermenter outside of what the house AC is set at, not sure how to go about that just yet. I haven't red that section yet.

Thanks.

Reading about temp control will be time well spent I promise. 71-72 ambient means 76-77+ actual beer temp. Again too high. S-05 produces clean profile in the 64-68F range (actual not ambient).

If you search "homebrewtalk swamp cooler" in google you will find some low tech temp control solutions. A fridge or freezer with a digital controller is what i employ for a more hands off approach. Hope that helps!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Ok, so my basement is a pretty steady 63-65. Perhaps that would be a better place to move the fermenter to then?

Thanks for the info man, I really appreciate it.

 

[zgja2]

yes! A much better place. You can move it back up stairs once most of fermentation is done to help it finish.

 

[jmartie13]

Do you have a fermometer sticker on your carboy? Definitely helps, and very cheap. When I first started I did the swamp cooler, and partially frozen towels for temp control.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Hey jmartie. I do not have one of those. Will that work with the bucket fermenter as well? Probably should get some of those... For now I'm going to move it to the basement and I think that should take care of it.

I sealed up the fermenter about 4pm yesterday. Will the change in temperature at this point if I move the fermenter from a 71-72 degree area to a ~65 degree area have a negative effect on anything? Do I need to be careful about shaking it up too much at this point? (I have to carry it down a spiral staircase and it's likely to shake a little bit).

Thanks.

 

[Tarpon87]

You will be fine to move it. Your yeast are just getting active and they will use what little oxygen you introduce. Most people shake up their fermentor to oxygenate the wort prior to pitching anyway. Post fermentation oxygenation you want to avoid as much as possible.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I did do the shake up prior to pitching as well. Ok, thanks Tarpon.

 

[TwistedGray]

Also, you're not asking yet, but if you rack into secondary and intend to leave there off the yeast it doesn't hurt to shake it up a bit, too so that the Co2 blow-off pushes the o2 out of the carboy.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Not quite sure what you mean twisted. Do you mean once I transfer to secondary, shake it up prior to sealing it?

 

[TwistedGray]

Not quite sure what you mean twisted. Do you mean once I transfer to secondary, shake it up prior to sealing it?

Yes, but it might not be necessary. The reason that I shake it up (slosh it around) is that it forces the o2 out (courtesy of the Co2). You would have the airlock on at this point, else it won't be able to push the o2 out (obviously).

The reason I rack of the yeast into the secondary is because I try to reduce the amount of sediment that I'm pulling into bottles. I actually rack a third time just before bottling, too. (Note: I still get some sediment in bottles.)

 

[Rob2010SS]

Now I'm with you, twisted. I may give that a shot, the shaking after transferring to secondary. I may also steal your idea of racking a 3rd time.

On a side note, we have fermentation!

View attachment 1497918723829.jpg

 

[Yooper]

Not quite sure what you mean twisted. Do you mean once I transfer to secondary, shake it up prior to sealing it?

No, no, no! You don't need to transfer to secondary at all; but if you do, do it "quietly", without any splashing or shaking at all. Make sure that the tubing is at the bottom of the carboy, in a circle on the bottom, so it gently fills from the bottom without splashing. Ideally, you would have the proper sized carboy so that you fill to the top of the carboy to minimize any risk of oxidation. Cover with the bung and airlock, and minimize any splashing/shaking/agitating when you move it back to its place. The receiving carboy is full of air, and so shaking it up with the air simply will damage the beer, not make the c02 protect the beer. Beer is a great thing, but it still complies with the laws of physics!

Beer is extremely susceptible to oxidation which mutes the flavor of the beer, and can often ruin it in a larger amount. The idea is to absolutely minimize any exposure to air once fermentation has begum.

 

[TwistedGray]

Beer is extremely susceptible to oxidation which mutes the flavor of the beer, and can often ruin it in a larger amount. The idea is to absolutely minimize any exposure to air once fermentation has begum.

Quite possibly explained my method incorrectly.

Could you better guide the OP when racking into a secondary and how to remove the o2 once all beer is racked?

If they're moving from a 5gal to a 5gal how do you recommend they remove any layer of o2?

 

[Rob2010SS]

No, no, no! You don't need to transfer to secondary at all; but if you do, do it "quietly", without any splashing or shaking at all. Make sure that the tubing is at the bottom of the carboy, in a circle on the bottom, so it gently fills from the bottom without splashing. Ideally, you would have the proper sized carboy so that you fill to the top of the carboy to minimize any risk of oxidation. Cover with the bung and airlock, and minimize any splashing/shaking/agitating when you move it back to its place. The receiving carboy is full of air, and so shaking it up with the air simply will damage the beer, not make the c02 protect the beer. Beer is a great thing, but it still complies with the laws of physics!

Beer is extremely susceptible to oxidation which mutes the flavor of the beer, and can often ruin it in a larger amount. The idea is to absolutely minimize any exposure to air once fermentation has begum.

Yooper, I understand your point about transferring quietly. From what I've read, that's very important so I plan to be very careful with it. If you could provide some insight into what Twisted was saying, that'd be much appreciated.
This does raise a question though. The recipe I'm doing calls for secondary. Right now, my secondary is a 6.5 gal big mouth bubbler but I used the 5 gal bucket for the primary. Can i go from 5 to 6.5? I know ideally, I should have gone the other way, but since it's too late now, can I go to the 6.5 gal for secondary?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Probably should elaborate on my last message a bit. The kit that i'm doing calls for secondary fermentation in which there's some dry hopping and grapefruit peel added. Will it be ok to do that in a larger vessel or will that cause me issues?

 

[Yooper]

Quite possibly explained my method incorrectly.

Could you better guide the OP when racking into a secondary and how to remove the o2 once all beer is racked?

If they're moving from a 5gal to a 5gal how do you recommend they remove any layer of o2?

You can't really remove any layer of o2 from a carboy, but some people purge the carboy with c02 to help a bit. By filling the carboy with c02, it can displace the oxygen. However, gasses readily mix, and that's one of the reasons many people don't routinely do a secondary.

Yooper, I understand your point about transferring quietly. From what I've read, that's very important so I plan to be very careful with it. If you could provide some insight into what Twisted was saying, that'd be much appreciated.
This does raise a question though. The recipe I'm doing calls for secondary. Right now, my secondary is a 6.5 gal big mouth bubbler but I used the 5 gal bucket for the primary. Can i go from 5 to 6.5? I know ideally, I should have gone the other way, but since it's too late now, can I go to the 6.5 gal for secondary?

I wouldn't. You can use a 6.5 gallon carboy for primary, and the 5 gallon carboy for a secondary if you want- but even then it's not always easy to minimize oxygen update.

You could add the dryhops and peel to the current fermenter after fermentation slows and avoid transferring the beer to the larger carboy if you want.

 

[zgja2]

No, no, no! You don't need to transfer to secondary at all; but if you do, do it "quietly", without any splashing or shaking at all. Make sure that the tubing is at the bottom of the carboy, in a circle on the bottom, so it gently fills from the bottom without splashing. Ideally, you would have the proper sized carboy so that you fill to the top of the carboy to minimize any risk of oxidation. Cover with the bung and airlock, and minimize any splashing/shaking/agitating when you move it back to its place. The receiving carboy is full of air, and so shaking it up with the air simply will damage the beer, not make the c02 protect the beer. Beer is a great thing, but it still complies with the laws of physics!

Beer is extremely susceptible to oxidation which mutes the flavor of the beer, and can often ruin it in a larger amount. The idea is to absolutely minimize any exposure to air once fermentation has begum.

Yooper is correct. Very rarely is secondary necessary and when it is, you must do everything you can to reduce 02 exposure. In this case, for an IPA, a secondary is 100% not needed. Very gently add the hops to the primary and let them ride for a week or whatever the recipe calls for.

IPAs are especially susceptible to o2. When i make an IPA (granted it has around 9+ oz of hops) they never touch air once yeast is pitched. I ferment in a sanke keg. When it is opened to dryhop a hose is immediately inserted into the headspace and constantly feeds co2. When it is time to cold crash my blow off tube is hooked to a co2 tank so when the beer contracts no o2 is drawn in just co2. Then I closed transfer under pressure to a closed, purged keg. This sounds like a lot but when you jam a beer full of hops even a little o2 can have a effect. Seems silly but this is the way to make a truly great IPA. Dont ever let anyone tell you "IPA is a easy style, just add a ton of hops"

 

[Rob2010SS]

So I've read a lot about getting the beer off of the yeast cake. There's some pretty mixed opinions about it - some people agree, some disagree. By doing the dry hopping and the peel on while the beer is still on the yeast cake, that won't give any off flavors? It'd be in the fermenter about 4 weeks total...

 

[Yooper]

So I've read a lot about getting the beer off of the yeast cake. There's some pretty mixed opinions about it - some people agree, some disagree. By doing the dry hopping and the peel on while the beer is still on the yeast cake, that won't give any off flavors? It'd be in the fermenter about 4 weeks total...

Four weeks is longer than I typically go in the fermenter, but many others do that with no harm or degradation in flavor.

I think the "get it off the yeast cake" and "secondary" came about because that's generally what winemakers do. I was a winemaker about 20 years before starting to brew, and it is a routine course of winemaking to rack fairly frequently. But winemakers typically leave in wine in a fermenter for a very long time (often a year or more), and use sulfites as antioxidants as a matter of course. So it's similar in technique in many ways, but not at all the same.

I really like the flavors I get from a beer that spends about 14-17 days total in the fermenter, including dryhopping. Since this is new to you, you probably will have to try a couple of different things and see which tastes better to you, and works better with your lifestyle.

I'd leave the beer alone for the first 7 days or so, either way. Once it's finished up and starting to clear, you can add your dryhops and peel. The thing is, I'd be surprised if you had a ton of room in that fermenter- with the krausen (foam) and the amount of headspace you need, you are sort of playing with fire to make a 5 gallon batch in a 5 gallon carboy or bucket! If you haven't had a blow out or anything, you're lucky for sure.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Four weeks is longer than I typically go in the fermenter, but many others do that with no harm or degradation in flavor.

I think the "get it off the yeast cake" and "secondary" came about because that's generally what winemakers do. I was a winemaker about 20 years before starting to brew, and it is a routine course of winemaking to rack fairly frequently. But winemakers typically leave in wine in a fermenter for a very long time (often a year or more), and use sulfites as antioxidants as a matter of course. So it's similar in technique in many ways, but not at all the same.

I really like the flavors I get from a beer that spends about 14-17 days total in the fermenter, including dryhopping. Since this is new to you, you probably will have to try a couple of different things and see which tastes better to you, and works better with your lifestyle.

I'd leave the beer alone for the first 7 days or so, either way. Once it's finished up and starting to clear, you can add your dryhops and peel. The thing is, I'd be surprised if you had a ton of room in that fermenter- with the krausen (foam) and the amount of headspace you need, you are sort of playing with fire to make a 5 gallon batch in a 5 gallon carboy or bucket! If you haven't had a blow out or anything, you're lucky for sure.

With that last comment of yours, I'll be sure to keep an eye on it and watch for the blow out. I also know now to start with the 6.5 and go to the 5 on future batches that require secondary fermentation. Now I just have to make a decision on if I risk it and try and transfer to the 6.5 or if I just dry hop in the primary...

 

[zgja2]

So I've read a lot about getting the beer off of the yeast cake. There's some pretty mixed opinions about it - some people agree, some disagree. By doing the dry hopping and the peel on while the beer is still on the yeast cake, that won't give any off flavors? It'd be in the fermenter about 4 weeks total...

4 weeks fine to leave it in primary. For this beer though i would shoot to have it in bottles by the 14-21 day mark.

 

[BowAholic]

lots of great advice has been given here... this is one of my favorite beers and I have made it a dozen times. I always let it sit for 3 weeks in the primary, add the grapefruit mix and dry hops to the primary, and then keg or bottle a week later. It makes a wonderful beer. I know I could reduce the time by 1 week, but I have plenty of beer fermenting at one time so I'm not in a hurry. Enjoy!

 

[TonyKZ1]

I've also made this recipe from NB. I added the hops and grapefruit peel after two weeks and bottled a week later. Really smelled great. The only problem I had was some of the grapefruit peel got into my bottling bucket when transferring and kept clogging up my bottle filling wand & hose. Next time I make this, I'll use a bag to put the grapefruit peel in and that ought to solve my problem. Looking forward to drinking it soon.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Thank you all for the info, it's greatly appreciated. This is where I get so strung up. This is my first batch of home brew and I want it to be good. So I read about all of these different methods that people employ (i.e transferring to secondary for dry hopping, dry hopping in primary, leave in primary for 3 weeks, leave in primary for 2 weeks) and I want to do what is going to turn out the best, but until you try all of them, you really don't know what's best for you. I'm sure this kind of knowledge will come with experience.