Grainfather!!

[Jag75]

I'm having issues with low boiloff, so I picked up the alembic dome and it just wants to boil over - I was going to either change boil temperature in the settings or cut a larger hole in the dome until the problem goes away... anyone else tackle this in an inventive way that didn't occur to me?

What is your boil off ? It should be about a gallon .

 

[skleice]

What is your boil off ? It should be about a gallon .

Grainfather says .4 gallons. I definitely don't boil off a full gallon. Obv, spends on where we all live...

 

[RickFinsta]

It takes a few hours to boil off a gallon. I'm coming from a HSLD setup where I could do a few gallons an hour so this significantly adding to my brew day length (used to be about four hours maximum from strike to pitch). I always used to have to top off after a 60min. boil for a 5gal batch (I would start the boil at about 6.5gal in that system) in my old setup but now I have to keep it boiling until I get to my desired OG and I'm hating it. My efficiency is way down since I am no longer doing decoction mash-outs as well, but at least that I can compensate with additional grain.

I've played with other lid arrangements and they get me a more vigorous boil and better boil-off, and while I haven't proven it experimentally, the dome increases the boil-off significantly just visually, so I know it will work but wanted to know if anyone else had attacked this issue. Today I'll try modifying the boil temperature setting and go from there.

ETA: I'm at 760' ASL

 

[thehaze]

I use the 220V/EU version and my boil-off rate, especially during warmer season is around 3-4 liters per hour. A bit less, so only around 3 liters during winter, at around -5C.

1 gallon is around 3.8 liters.

Also, never boil with a full/partial lid on. It will not benefit your beer.

 

[couchsending]

You don’t want a ton of boil off.. most professional systems are less than 5%. Excess boil off causes thermal stress on the wort and you lose a lot of aroma and flavor from the malt.

I struggle with boil intensity with the grainfather. It’s sometimes even hard to get much more than a light simmer. Just putting the lid on kinda cockeyed so steam can escape from almost all sides helps to get to a low rolling boil with no worries about DMS. I am at 6800 feet though so I boil at 201 and have to boil twice as long to get rid of the DMS precursor. I can even turn the power down to 90% with the lid on cockeyed and maintain a low rolling boil.

 

[couchsending]

Also, never boil with a full/partial lid on. It will not benefit your beer.

It won’t hurt it as long as some steam can escape and you remove it fully for the last 20-30 minutes... All the LODO guys boil pils malt for 70 minutes with a modified lid on in order to reduce intensity and thermal stress. Again boil length depends on your elevation.

 

[RickFinsta]

I'm also not worried about any kind of lid. I spent a long time distilling in a production chemistry setting (I'm a biochemist) and reactor domes with condensers will pull off anything that is volatile with steam (I know DMS is one a lot of brewers fixate on). As long as there is a pressure differential and a hole, the compounds will move from the aqueous phase. Obviously that is a bit of an oversimplification but I think enough to illustrate the point here.

 

[Jag75]

Grainfather says .4 gallons. I definitely don't boil off a full gallon. Obv, spends on where we all live...

Correct my bad . I was thinking about the amount of boil and left in the bottom and hose . So after sparge I have about 6 gallons of wort that will give me 5 gallons in the fermenter after the boil and transfer.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I'm having issues with low boiloff, so I picked up the alembic dome and it just wants to boil over - I was going to either change boil temperature in the settings or cut a larger hole in the dome until the problem goes away... anyone else tackle this in an inventive way that didn't occur to me?

I have a US version 110V so I got a second element for more power. Really nice for bringing to a boil and keeping a rolling boil.
I get almost 1 galllon per hour this way

 

[Jag75]

I dont know if you guys use the Grainfather app , but its spot on when it comes to grain and water amounts . I imagine adding rods to make the boil more aggressive could lead to less in the fermenter. Imo the Grainfather does fine. Unless your talking about just getting up to boiling temp quicker .

What I've found is once my mash is done I raise the basket and my temp is rising to boiling temp as I sparge . By the time my sparge is done I'm almost to boiling temp .

 

[RickFinsta]

I appreciate all the feedback and ideas.

I have reached out to Grainfather to see if we can get the application changed. With the "boil power" option on you can set the PWM on time to 59%, 70%, or 83% (there are more but those are in the useful range for my setup) and when using the controller manually there is a way to control the on time in 5% increments, but there appears to be no way currently to use the on time directly from the app during a brew session. I'll know more in a little while but it looks like the 70% setting and alembic dome are netting me around 0.6-0.7gal/hour, and 83% wants to boil over. I think 75 or 80% would be about the perfect range to maximize boil off while not having boil-over issues. I should note to get a good balance at 70% I needed to use a towel to insulate the dome. I'll pick up some neoprene sheet to insulate that moving forward before I settle on a power range.

It would also be nice if we could set the PWM on time for the boil in the preferences, since the boil temperature setting doesn't seem to work. My guess is the PID loop needs a lot better tuning or the temperature sensor delay is just too high to be useful when we're operating at such high pulse widths. I'd have better guesses if the documentation was better but it is *way* too dumbed down to be very useful for such troubleshooting.

I was being lazy and trying to get around having to redevelop my recipes for this new equipment but that doesn't look to be in the cards.

 

[Snuffy]

I usually round down just a bit on the water volumes provided by the GF app. A 60-min boil loses about 2/3 of a gallon on a 5-gal batch. Maybe 3/4 gal on smaller batches that boil more vigorously. I think they also allow for more trub loss than I need. I use a hop spider exclusively now after I clogged the filter with hops on my first brew. 3 gal batch. I attempted to scrape the filter lightly with the paddle and knocked the rubber endcap off. Had to start and stop the pump a few times when transferring to fermenter but eventually got there. Used a secondary to move off the hop sludge after fermentation slowed. With the spider I can pump dang near everything so I end up with usually 5.25 gallons at a bit over expected OG in the fermenter. Never knew wort could be so clear. And all the reminders during the process are too cool. Stepped mashes are a breeze.

I just got the Graincoat for Christmas and have installed it but not brewed with it on there yet. I never really had a problem with the 110v G30 boil before, so I expect it to be more energy saver than anything. I use the old M&B unit as a sparge water heater. The improvement in brew day organization and efficiency is better than I expected. I love this thing. Best used equipment purchase ever.

 

[skraeling]

I'm having issues with low boiloff, so I picked up the alembic dome and it just wants to boil over - I was going to either change boil temperature in the settings or cut a larger hole in the dome until the problem goes away... anyone else tackle this in an inventive way that didn't occur to me?

It’s possible to adjust your recipes based on your boil off rate. That’s an option as well

 

[RickFinsta]

Snuffy: I use a stainless basket for my hops and do a lot of post-flameout additions (I think the kids call it a "hop stand" these days?). So I just connect up the chiller and start circulating through that basket and it sets a bed at the bottom of the kettle and filters all the floating trub nicely. That is actually my favorite part of this setup - I never had a pump and so the immersion chilling and slow drain for filtration was always the bottleneck in my process.

skraeling: I had issues with a few stuck mashes early on trying to use my old grain ratios and had to increase my strike volume, but now that I've used it a half dozen or so times I can revisit that. I did cut down a little today and so far so good, and I think I had some more room to move. I'll work it out over then next few batches.

I don't get to brew as often as I used to since I moved from the sciences into CNC machining for a day job and now own/operate a shop. I forced myself to take a long weekend for the holiday and brewing was on my short list of things I wanted to do! That is why I got the Grainfather in the first place - to get back into brewing with a system that was a little more streamlined than how I was doing it before. Turns out I had a pretty darned efficient setup LOL.

 

[skleice]

I usually round down just a bit on the water volumes provided by the GF app. A 60-min boil loses about 2/3 of a gallon on a 5-gal batch. Maybe 3/4 gal on smaller batches that boil more vigorously. I think they also allow for more trub loss than I need. I use a hop spider exclusively now after I clogged the filter with hops on my first brew. 3 gal batch. I attempted to scrape the filter lightly with the paddle and knocked the rubber endcap off. Had to start and stop the pump a few times when transferring to fermenter but eventually got there. Used a secondary to move off the hop sludge after fermentation slowed. With the spider I can pump dang near everything so I end up with usually 5.25 gallons at a bit over expected OG in the fermenter. Never knew wort could be so clear. And all the reminders during the process are too cool. Stepped mashes are a breeze.

I just got the Graincoat for Christmas and have installed it but not brewed with it on there yet. I never really had a problem with the 110v G30 boil before, so I expect it to be more energy saver than anything. I use the old M&B unit as a sparge water heater. The improvement in brew day organization and efficiency is better than I expected. I love this thing. Best used equipment purchase ever.

I use the GF mash calculator and deduct 2qts to hit my target volume and OG. So, it seems to be it be over for me as well.

 

[skraeling]

Snuffy: I use a stainless basket for my hops and do a lot of post-flameout additions (I think the kids call it a "hop stand" these days?). So I just connect up the chiller and start circulating through that basket and it sets a bed at the bottom of the kettle and filters all the floating trub nicely. That is actually my favorite part of this setup - I never had a pump and so the immersion chilling and slow drain for filtration was always the bottleneck in my process.

skraeling: I had issues with a few stuck mashes early on trying to use my old grain ratios and had to increase my strike volume, but now that I've used it a half dozen or so times I can revisit that. I did cut down a little today and so far so good, and I think I had some more room to move. I'll work it out over then next few batches.

I don't get to brew as often as I used to since I moved from the sciences into CNC machining for a day job and now own/operate a shop. I forced myself to take a long weekend for the holiday and brewing was on my short list of things I wanted to do! That is why I got the Grainfather in the first place - to get back into brewing with a system that was a little more streamlined than how I was doing it before. Turns out I had a pretty darned efficient setup LOL.

I cut a full gallon off my strike volume. Kept having the bed collapse on me and the plate sink. Worked wonders.

 

[skraeling]

Welp my third Grainfather melted it’s boiler plug. Busy doing the warranty thing and hoping they can send me the 220v NA version instead. Tired of the stupid 120v melting itself

 

[Snuffy]

Welp my third Grainfather melted it’s boiler plug. Busy doing the warranty thing and hoping they can send me the 220v NA version instead. Tired of the stupid 120v melting itself

Dang. You got 3 melted? When does it happen - during mash or boil?

 

[skraeling]

Dang. You got 3 melted? When does it happen - during mash or boil?

hard to tell as I only unplug at the end to clean up. My guess is boil though.

 

[Snuffy]

hard to tell as I only unplug at the end to clean up. My guess is boil though.

So it melts the cord where it attaches to the controller or at the boiler? I assume at the boiler or it would be melting the controller too.

*I just found a thread on Reddit where they showed the plug melted on the end where it attaches to the controller. Yikes.

**Found a YouTube video where a guy had the same issue, they replaced his controller twice. He hooked up a PC case fan to the side of his controller to blow across the internal heat sink. Seemed to help. Plug stayed cool to the touch. So apparently it's a controller overheating thing. Gonna keep an eye on mine. 5 brews in and I haven't noticed anything like that yet.

 

[skraeling]

So it melts the cord where it attaches to the controller or at the boiler? I assume at the boiler or it would be melting the controller too.

melts at the prongs where they go into the unit. This one wasn’t too swelled this time but the cords done for.

 

[Snuffy]

melts at the prongs where they go into the unit. This one wasn’t too swelled this time but the cords done for.

ok. I edited my last post with some info I found online.

 

[skraeling]

ok. I edited my last post with some info I found online.

That was actually me in the video. Case fan seemed to only prolong it.

 

[Snuffy]

That was actually me in the video. Case fan seemed to only prolong it.

HaH! That is awesome. Makes me feel better there's one less unit experiencing that than I feared. My guess is you may get another entire unit. Good try at a fix tho. Was I right that they replaced your controller a couple of times? I read some stuff on Reddit too and I may have mixed the stories.

 

[skraeling]

HaH! That is awesome. Makes me feel better there's one less unit experiencing that than I feared. My guess is you may get another entire unit. Good try at a fix tho. Was I right that they replaced your controller a couple of times? I read some stuff on Reddit too and I may have mixed the stories.

Every time with this issue it’s been a full unit replacement. Plug to boiler is damage so whole thing is replaced. Also your warranty starts over from the new unit as well and I do in fact have that in writing from them.

 

[Snuffy]

Every time with this issue it’s been a full unit replacement. Plug to boiler is damage so whole thing is replaced. Also your warranty starts over from the new unit as well and I do in fact have that in writing from them.

That's all you could ask for from a warranty, IMO. I know it's a PitA, but I am glad to see they follow thru. I bought mine from an individual. I wonder if the warranty is transferrable. Probably not, but for what I paid, I'll buy replacement parts if I have to. Good luck. If they were to send you the 220 version, do you have the circuit for that?

 

[skraeling]

That's all you could ask for from a warranty, IMO. I know it's a PitA, but I am glad to see they follow thru. I bought mine from an individual. I wonder if the warranty is transferrable. Probably not, but for what I paid, I'll buy replacement parts if I have to. Good luck. If they were to send you the 220 version, do you have the circuit for that?

Yeah I have a plan in place I believe will work. Waiting to confirm they will send me me the 220.

 

[skleice]

Every time with this issue it’s been a full unit replacement. Plug to boiler is damage so whole thing is replaced. Also your warranty starts over from the new unit as well and I do in fact have that in writing from them.

Wow!?!? I didn't realize that. My unit was recently replaced due to the same issue. Good to know!

 

[ihavenonickname]

I had my whole unit replaced after the same melting plug problem. That was in OCT 2018 and I was under the impression that they had changed the controller specs to solve the problem. Also I bought my original one off Craigslist and it wasn’t a problem for the warranty. I’ve put 30 brews in on my replacement so I’m pretty dang satisfied.

So how new is your melted one? I thought this problem was starting to go away for them.

Another note, since it melted I haven’t tried stress testing like I did before - all night mashes, full volume step mashes starting from room temp. I just use the thing like it was designed to be used- also back to using the basket as intended with full flow pump recirculation - this has stopped my scorching problem and I figure it’s better on the element too.

 

[skraeling]

I had my whole unit replaced after the same melting plug problem. That was in OCT 2018 and I was under the impression that they had changed the controller specs to solve the problem. Also I bought my original one off Craigslist and it wasn’t a problem for the warranty. I’ve put 30 brews in on my replacement so I’m pretty dang satisfied.

So how new is your melted one? I thought this problem was starting to go away for them.

Another note, since it melted I haven’t tried stress testing like I did before - all night mashes, full volume step mashes starting from room temp. I just use the thing like it was designed to be used- also back to using the basket as intended with full flow pump recirculation - this has stopped my scorching problem and I figure it’s better on the element too.

This one made it almost two years. It still had the Unupgraded 15amp plug and sockets not the better 20a ones

 

[Snuffy]

Also I bought my original one off Craigslist and it wasn’t a problem for the warranty. I’ve put 30 brews in on my replacement so I’m pretty dang satisfied.

Glad to hear that! Did you have to provide any sort of proof of purchase or did they just replace your unit, no questions asked?

 

[treacheroustexan]

Glad to hear that! Did you have to provide any sort of proof of purchase or did they just replace your unit, no questions asked?

I’ve had my unit replaced like 4 times before they finally gave me the updated receptacle. Never had to show proof of purchase, just sent them pictures of the damage and the serial number on the unit.

 

[TheBrewBrotha]

I’m working with CS now for my 3rd Grainfather replacement due to the melting plug issue. It’s getting tiresome as their CS is a bit slow these days. I didn’t think about asking for a 220v as replacement. Anyone know what type of outlet the 220v version needs? I already have 240v nema 14-30 outlet for my Spike Solo

 

[skraeling]

I’m working with CS now for my 3rd Grainfather replacement due to the melting plug issue. It’s getting tiresome as their CS is a bit slow these days. I didn’t think about asking for a 220v as replacement. Anyone know what type of outlet the 220v version needs? I already have 240v nema 14-30 outlet for my Spike Solo

top plug is what it comes with.

 

[johndan]

Anyone have an exploded diagram of the G30 pump?

Mine has been clogging during the last few batches. I could get it to clear by forcing air down the recirculating pipe after removing the valve but Grainfather tech support recommended that I take it apart and clean it. Which I did, but after I put it back together it's leaking. I've clearly put a gasket in the wrong place or something.

The Grainfather is about 95% great and 5% infuriating. I'm baffled by some of the design choices they made. A reset button on the bottom? Really?

 

[Jag75]

Anyone have an exploded diagram of the G30 pump?

Mine has been clogging during the last few batches. I could get it to clear by forcing air down the recirculating pipe after removing the valve but Grainfather tech support recommended that I take it apart and clean it. Which I did, but after I put it back together it's leaking. I've clearly put a gasket in the wrong place or something.

The Grainfather is about 95% great and 5% infuriating. I'm baffled by some of the design choices they made. A reset button on the bottom? Really?

I dont have a diagram but a couple things I did to mine to help the pump . I took out the spring and ball in the valve . I also added the Robobrew false bottom . It fits perfectly. So I use the reg filter plus the false bottom and I've not had one issue with the pump clogging . I know this doesn't help putting your pump back together but once you get it back these I listed will help .

 

[johndan]

Thanks. I actually took out the spring and ball already. I bought a Robobrew false bottom, but after I got the false bottom I found out that there are two versions. Both work fine in an actual Robobrew, but the one I have is slightly too large to fit into the Grainfather. The one that fits is flat; the too-large one has several concentric, circular ridges. I ordered the correct one last week but it hasn't arrived yet.

A David Heath video on the Grainfather warned that taking out the spring and ball meant if you accidentally hit the pump button when nothing was attached to the recirculating arm, you might end up spraying boiling wort everywhere. Once I have the correct Robobrew false bottom, I'm planning to put the ball and spring back in. In theory, if the false bottom is effectively filtering, the valve shouldn't get clogged.

 

[Knkbrand]

HaH! That is awesome. Makes me feel better there's one less unit experiencing that than I feared. My guess is you may get another entire unit. Good try at a fix tho. Was I right that they replaced your controller a couple of times? I read some stuff on Reddit too and I may have mixed the stories.

My first grainfather melted and when I got my 2nd one, I plug the heater plug directly into the wall. when I get to about 3 degrees from mash temp, I plug into the controller for the mash. After mash, I plug back into the wall for boil. So far (16 Batches) no signs of melting. Just my solution.

 

[TheBrewBrotha]

top plug is what it comes with.

Thanks for that visual. Unfortunately I can’t utilize the 220v GF with my current set up but great info to have for the future

 

[johndan]

Here's a link to a folder that contains instructions on pump disassembly/assembly and a text file that links to a video showing how the tubing connects to the pump. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but looks pretty straightforward.

Thanks. I actually took out the spring and ball already. I bought a Robobrew false bottom, but after I got the false bottom I found out that there are two versions. Both work fine in an actual Robobrew, but the one I have is slightly too large to fit into the Grainfather. The one that fits is flat; the too-large one has several concentric, circular ridges. I ordered the correct one last week but it hasn't arrived yet.

A David Heath video on the Grainfather warned that taking out the spring and ball meant if you accidentally hit the pump button when nothing was attached to the recirculating arm, you might end up spraying boiling wort everywhere. Once I have the correct Robobrew false bottom, I'm planning to put the ball and spring back in. In theory, if the false bottom is effectively filtering, the valve shouldn't get clogged.