Grain Substitutes and Thoughts

[mingo]

Just brewed the Raging Red Irish Red and it's not red at all. I took my recipe in to the LHBS and several substitutes were made. After having brewed I started a little research that provided answers that will make me question substitutions in the future. I would love to hear commits on what good substitutes could have been made and why. The substitutions are below, recipe grains on the left and LHBS grain substitutes on the right. I was attempting to brew a malty batch of brew and the ingredients left out are probably essential to what I was looking for.

The Caraaroma - 120L
The Carafoam - Carapils
The Melanoiden - Victory

 

[BigEd]

There are so many recipes listing ingredients that are particular to one manufacturer and some that may no longer be made it is not unusal to have to make subs once in a while. Those are all pretty close matches. CaraAroma and CaraFoam are trade names for dark crystal (120L) and dextrin malt respectively. CaraPils is also a trade name for dextrin malt although it tends to be used generically. Melanoiden and Victory aren't exactly the same but in the typical small quantities used it should be fine in that beer.

 

[Beernik]

A SRM of 13 - 15 will result in a nice red.

I haven't used it but I've seen melanoidin malt described as a cross between Munich and Biscuit. Victory is similiar to Biscuit.

 

[mingo]

As recall, I once brewed a IRA that had a very small amount of Black Patent Malt, which resulted in a beautiful red hue.

 

[tootal]

http://www.brew.is/files/malt.html

A friend just sent me this today.

 

[rklinck]

As recall, I once brewed a IRA that had a very small amount of Black Patent Malt, which resulted in a beautiful red hue.

Now you are cooking with gas! The secret to the deep red hue in an Irish Red is the addition of a small amount of Black Malt.

 

[mingo]

Thanks for the link tootal, I've bookmarked it for future reference.

 

[mingo]

Just to cap off the thread; the beer tasted great, just not the color I expected.

 

[donovanmaxwell]

How much Black Malt are you guys talking about? A couple ounces? An IRA is on the short list for upcoming brews.

 

[stpug]

IMO, the only substitution for melanoidin malt is aromatic malt. Victory, biscuit, munich, etc don't come close to the flavor contribution of melanoidin/aromatic. Personally, I'm not a big fan of melanoidin/aromatic in general, but it does play well in an IRA.

 

[roastquake]

How much Black Malt are you guys talking about? A couple ounces? An IRA is on the short list for upcoming brews.

you got it, a couple ounces will do

 

[Matt3989]

Irish red's typically get most of their color from small amounts of roasted barley. In my opinion it's the hardest color to really nail, a hair too much color and it looks like a stout in a pint glass, a hair too little and you've got a pale or an Amber ale. So I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the substitutions made.

Mash/sparge pH also can play a big role on how much color you extract with the sugars.

For Irish red's I've heard of brewers throwing in the roasted barley at different points through out the mash, sometimes not even crushing it. If you toss it in at the end of the mash, you can always just recirculate until you get the color you want.

 

[mingo]

donovanmaxwell - the IRA recipe that I used previously, where the color came out dark red, had 2 ounces of black patent for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Sanjuro]

Check out this substitution I had to make here:
(All substitutions were made because my HomeBrew supply was out of what the recipe called for)

Belgian White (recipe)

Recipe called for:
2.5lb Flaked Wheat - used 1.25lb Flaked Barley and 1.25lb Oatmeal instead
3lb White Wheat
4.5lb Belgian Pilsner - used German Pils instead

1/2oz Corriander
1/2oz Bitter Orange Peel - used Tangerine peel instead
1/2oz Orange Extract - used 1oz instead, cause I was drunk and said to myself "I like orange so I'll use the entire bottle!!"

WLP 400 - used WLP 410 instead


WTF did I just brew.. Does it fit any style? Is there a such thing is an Oat-Wit?

Thx fellas!!

 

[Beernik]

That's a lot for a LHBS to be missing. I think I would have told them to order it and call me when it came in or got ingredients for something else.

You can use oats in a Wit. But wheat is one of the signatures of the style. Maybe call it a wheatless wit.

It's going to be different. Oats strike me as a chewy-smooth mouthfeel whereas wheat is more of a silky-smooth mouthfeel.

 

[Sanjuro]

Well, there is still 3lb of White Wheat though.. It's just the flaked wheat that's missing.

 

[Beernik]

Oh, I thought the oatmeal was instead of the wheat.

I got it now.

You should be fine.

 

[charliehorse]

Check out this substitution I had to make here:
(All substitutions were made because my HomeBrew supply was out of what the recipe called for)

Belgian White (recipe)

Recipe called for:
2.5lb Flaked Wheat - used 1.25lb Flaked Barley and 1.25lb Oatmeal instead
3lb White Wheat
4.5lb Belgian Pilsner - used German Pils instead

1/2oz Corriander
1/2oz Bitter Orange Peel - used Tangerine peel instead
1/2oz Orange Extract - used 1oz instead, cause I was drunk and said to myself "I like orange so I'll use the entire bottle!!"

WLP 400 - used WLP 410 instead


WTF did I just brew.. Does it fit any style? Is there a such thing is an Oat-Wit?

Thx fellas!!

That sounds pretty good. Particularly subbing barely for wheat. Perhaps you should get drunk while brewing more often.

 

[Sanjuro]

That sounds pretty good. Particularly subbing barely for wheat. Perhaps you should get drunk while brewing more often.

Ok. So I'm down to a 1.010 reading and cold crashed it. The beer smells kind of like a sour orange but tastes drinkable. I think it'll be just fine. Dunno if it is worth sharing though.


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