Grain Mill and Scale

[wfred]

I am just starting all-grain brewing. What should I buy for a grain mill and a scale? We don't have any local homebrew stores so I will need to buy grains in bulk and then weigh and crush them when I am ready to brew.

Thanks,

Fred

 

[E-Mursed]

I like the Malt Monster - MM2 to be exact, but they make other great versions too. Nice crush and built like a freaking tank.

http://www.monsterbrewinghardware.com/

 

[Czm]

I think I may get one from rebel. All setup in stainless for reasonable price.

 

[Golddiggie]

+1 on getting a Monster Mill... I have the MM2-2.0 with the hardened steel rollers, base, hopper, and hopper extension (39# capacity total)...

For the scale, look at the UltraSHIP 35 and 55 models (I have the 55)... The number is the pound limit for the scale. I simply use a bucket on top of the scale, tare the weight of the bucket, and then start pouring/scooping/dumping grain into the bucket. Depending on the grain bill, I use either a 5 gallon Lowe's bucket, or an ale pail to weigh with.

My Monster Mill is a BEAST when it comes to crushing grain. The 2" diameter rollers has it going through the grain much easier, and makes a lovely noise. I power mine with an 18v DeWalt cordless [hammer] drill without issue. Just be sure you have a drill with a 1/2" chuck for that mill (no wimpy 3/8" shaft there)... My only 'issue' with the Monster Mill was the set screws provided to hold the gap setting. BUT, Fred sent me hex head screws to use instead. Those hold without any issue at all. Simply put, I couldn't get the thumb screws in tight enough to hold the gap setting. I just use a wrench on the hex screws and they don't budge. :rockin:

Oh, and customer service/support from Monster is top shelf, IMO/IME...

 

[kincade]

I like the rebel mill, but for $30 more you can get the proven mm2 with 1" longer rollers and a larger diameter roller (1 1/2" vs 1 5/16"), in stainless.

It should be noted that many believe the barley crusher's problems are due to the smaller roller diameter coupled with wear of the knurl. As rebel set out to eliminate these problems in theirs it will likely not be a problem but only time will tell.

Point being, there are many options in the same price range which will yield similar results. Also look at the crankenstein...

 

[kincade]

I use the ultraship 55 as well with great results.

 

[Golddiggie]

From my conversations with Fred from Monster Brewing Hardware, unless you're going to store your mill where there's a moisture (or high humidity) problem, the stainless rollers are not ideal. Better to go for the hardened option (only available when you go with the 2" rollers). The stainless rollers are softer than the hardened rollers, so the stainless actually won't last as long. Granted, we're talking the difference between lasting several thousand pounds, or tens of thousands of pounds of grain here.

Also, for scales, I use my UltraSHIP 55 for grain, but then a more precise scale for my hops. Got both from William's Brewing. Just be sure you get the AC adapter for the large scale. IMO, the smaller one works just fine off of batteries.

 

[goybar]

I have the Crankandstein 2A, and don't have any problems with it.

As far as a scale I went with a digital model that could measure in pounds/ounces plus grams.

Gram scale can be important if/when using high alpha acid hops like Magnum.

 

[phenry]

I use a Barley Crusher and I'm happy with it. For scales I use an 11 lb for grains and a 100g for hops/minerals. Both found on amazon.com, neither very expensive.

 

[marquette048]

+1 on getting a Monster Mill... I have the MM2-2.0 with the hardened steel rollers, base, hopper, and hopper extension (39# capacity total)...

For the scale, look at the UltraSHIP 35 and 55 models (I have the 55)... The number is the pound limit for the scale. I simply use a bucket on top of the scale, tare the weight of the bucket, and then start pouring/scooping/dumping grain into the bucket. Depending on the grain bill, I use either a 5 gallon Lowe's bucket, or an ale pail to weigh with.

My Monster Mill is a BEAST when it comes to crushing grain. The 2" diameter rollers has it going through the grain much easier, and makes a lovely noise. I power mine with an 18v DeWalt cordless [hammer] drill without issue. Just be sure you have a drill with a 1/2" chuck for that mill (no wimpy 3/8" shaft there)... My only 'issue' with the Monster Mill was the set screws provided to hold the gap setting. BUT, Fred sent me hex head screws to use instead. Those hold without any issue at all. Simply put, I couldn't get the thumb screws in tight enough to hold the gap setting. I just use a wrench on the hex screws and they don't budge. :rockin:

Oh, and customer service/support from Monster is top shelf, IMO/IME...

I'm looking at the MM2-2.0 with the hardened steel rollers, base, hopper, and hopper extension...if you don't mind me asking, where and how much did you pay for it? Looks like a beast, and I tend to like the overkill!

 

[LuiInIdaho]

I use a Barley Crusher and I'm happy with it. For scales I use an 11 lb for grains and a 100g for hops/minerals. Both found on amazon.com, neither very expensive.

I also have the Barley Crusher and could not be happier. I think that any type of mill with two (or more) rollers would serve you well. I also use an 11 pound scale. I take a couple of identical plastic pitchers which I can zero out on the scale and put my grains in the pitchers. I use three pitchers to weigh out all the grains, and then pour them into the mill hopper as I crush the grains. The pitchers make it easier to pour grain into the BC hopper. This setup works well. Mark

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm looking at the MM2-2.0 with the hardened steel rollers, base, hopper, and hopper extension...if you don't mind me asking, where and how much did you pay for it? Looks like a beast, and I tend to like the overkill!

Went direct to Monster for it all. Same prices as showing on their site. It's a bit of a beast, but it makes a C&S look small in comparison. It absolutely DWARFS a Barley Crusher too. Get Fred to send you hex head set screws with it and I think you'll be beyond happy with it.

Oh, and it's more than a beast, it's a MONSTER!! :rockin:

For reference, I was happy with the BC I had, except for it's tiny (7#) hopper. With my MM2-2.0 I have yet to need to refill the hopper for ANY of my batches. Maybe when I have a larger mash tun, and am doing a BIG 10 gallon brew, I'll fill it more than once. But I suspect that's a ways off... I do have to get more than one container to receive the crushed grains when I'm brewing something bigger though. But, I have a few 6+ gallon buckets that I can use there.

If you don't have the budget to get a Monster Mill, get what you can. Personally, I wish I had gotten one instead of the BC. IMO, they're worlds apart in quality, customer support, and how they're designed. The guys from Monster actually DO reply to emails and support/help requests pretty damned fast. Unlike what you often hear about BC.

 

[Cacaman]

I also have the Barley Crusher and could not be happier. I think that any type of mill with two (or more) rollers would serve you well. I also use an 11 pound scale. I take a couple of identical plastic pitchers which I can zero out on the scale and put my grains in the pitchers. I use three pitchers to weigh out all the grains, and then pour them into the mill hopper as I crush the grains. The pitchers make it easier to pour grain into the BC hopper. This setup works well. Mark

In the same boat as Lui, I use a Barley Crusher, and an 11lb scale + pitcher to weigh my grain. I ordered the Barley Crusher 2 weeks ago, and it rocks! It comes ready to use with the hand crank or 3/8" drill, and no assembly required.

Barley Crusher

Scale

 

[kincade]

The stainless rollers are softer than the hardened rollers, so the stainless actually won't last as long. Granted, we're talking the difference between lasting several thousand pounds, or tens of thousands of pounds of grain

This is not true according to fred/mm. Even his website says that the stainless he uses is the same hardness as his 1144 steel and will wear the same. I cant speak to what grade stainless anyone else uses.

 

[Golddiggie]

This is not true according to fred/mm. Even his website says that the stainless he uses is the same hardness as his 1144 steel and will wear the same. I cant speak to what grade stainless anyone else uses.

THose are the standard hardness rollers, not the HARDENED rollers available on the 2" diameter models. I also got the information directly from Fred when I was deciding on which mill to get. The life expectancy of the stainless rollers is LESS than those of the hardened steel rollers.

 

[kincade]

THose are the standard hardness rollers, not the HARDENED rollers available on the 2" diameter models. I also got the information directly from Fred when I was deciding on which mill to get. The life expectancy of the stainless rollers is LESS than those of the hardened steel rollers.

I was talking about the regular 1144 steel rollers, not the relatively expensive hardened steel upgrade. For the standard mills he offers this:

"As an upgrade to 1144 steel we offer 303 Stainless Steel. It will wear just about the same as our 1144 steel, but will not rust. Recommended for those that live in salty or moist environments, and those that want to wet mill."

On the 2" roller models he offers these options:

"There are three roller material options available for the larger 2" mills. They come standard with 1144 alloy steel, which offers fantastic wear for home brewers. Plain steel mills kept indoors, and used regularly won't have rust issues. Non climate controlled areas, or minimal usage could see some corrosion come up that is easily removed with a wire brush. As an upgrade to 1144 steel we offer 303 Stainless Steel. It will wear just about the same as our 1144 steel, but will not rust. The last option is for our 1144 steel rollers that have been heat treated/hardened. The regular 1144 alloy rollers are heat treated to approximately 51-54 Rockwell C hardness. This upgrade is what you want for any mill used in a commercial environment. Brew shops, breweries, and only extremely prolific home brewers with tons of drinking buddies need to look at this option."

Fred actually talked me out of the hardened rollers unless "i wanted to impress my friends.". He said at my current schedule it would take 15-20 years to wear the knurl down on the stainless rollers. All depends on the usage.

 

[kincade]

Fwiw, the 1144 he uses is supposed to wear much longer than the steel bc uses (1018).

 

[iaefebs]

Never argue with anyone that had 200+ post's before they made their first beer. Even if they had a camera back then.

 

[marquette048]

Went direct to Monster for it all. Same prices as showing on their site. It's a bit of a beast, but it makes a C&S look small in comparison. It absolutely DWARFS a Barley Crusher too. Get Fred to send you hex head set screws with it and I think you'll be beyond happy with it.

Oh, and it's more than a beast, it's a MONSTER!! :rockin:

For reference, I was happy with the BC I had, except for it's tiny (7#) hopper. With my MM2-2.0 I have yet to need to refill the hopper for ANY of my batches. Maybe when I have a larger mash tun, and am doing a BIG 10 gallon brew, I'll fill it more than once. But I suspect that's a ways off... I do have to get more than one container to receive the crushed grains when I'm brewing something bigger though. But, I have a few 6+ gallon buckets that I can use there.

If you don't have the budget to get a Monster Mill, get what you can. Personally, I wish I had gotten one instead of the BC. IMO, they're worlds apart in quality, customer support, and how they're designed. The guys from Monster actually DO reply to emails and support/help requests pretty damned fast. Unlike what you often hear about BC.

Thanks for the info. I like to only buy things once. I might spend more, but in the end I have a great product that usually lasts a long time. Buying a lesser product twice can be pricey! I think any of today's better mills will last a very long time, but like I said before, I got to go with the Monster! :rockin:

I'll have to contact Fred and ask for the hex head set screws. While I'm at it, I'll ask about the hardened steel vs the stainless steel.

 

[Golddiggie]

kincade, I made the purchase as a one time deal. So I went with the hardened rollers since I suspect I'll be using more and more grain as time progresses. I'd rather have something designed for much heavier use than I'll give it than need to purchase a new mill in X years. For me, the few dollar upgrade to the hardened rollers makes much more sense than going to the stainless rollers. Actually, the hardened rollers are CHEAPER than the stainless rollers. So unless you want more 'bling' in the mill to 'impress your friends' the stainless is a more expensive 'nice to have' item.

Also "...303 Stainless Steel. It will wear just about the same as our 1144 steel..." doesn't mean the stainless will wear as well. I'll have to dig up the emails but I'm pretty sure that 303 stainless is softer than the 1144 steel (even non-hardened).

Get whatever option you want on the rollers, but don't complain after X pounds have gone through the stainless ones about the knurling. Especially when mine will still look brand new in comparison.

Oh, and I do have long term plans for brewing far higher volumes than we can as home brewers. While I'll probably get a larger (probable 3 roller) mill eventually in that instance, it's very comforting to know that my current mill will be up to the task for brewing 10+ barrel batches. :rockin:

 

[RGingerelli]

Rebel Brewer's Rebel Mill - it is an amazing product.
Ultra-Ship-75 - Accurate, lots of options, holds a bucket, cheap on amazon

 

[RM-MN]

I am just starting all-grain brewing. What should I buy for a grain mill and a scale? We don't have any local homebrew stores so I will need to buy grains in bulk and then weigh and crush them when I am ready to brew.

Thanks,

Fred

How much brewing do you anticipate in the next year? Are you dead set on using a conventional mash tun or are you open to doing an alternative? How big of batches do you contemplate? How many pounds of grain per batch?

I brew either 2 1/2 or 5 gallon batches. I might at times get to brew 3 times in a week and then maybe a month goes by before I can get back to it as holidays, family commitments, work, etc get in the way. My grain bill for a batch has never exceeded 11 pounds as I don't feel the need for a high gravity beer and I found out about BIAB so when the weather gets really cold and nasty I can do a complete brew right in my kitchen.

I bought a digital scale off Ebay that weighs between 0.2 ounces (suitable for weighing hops) to 35 pounds (for my grain bill). I also bought a grain mill off Ebay that was under $25 which coupled with a paint strainer works great for BIAB. I do move outside to chill a 5 gallon batch since I have a big tub, cold water at the hose bibb, and snow to get the water bath even colder.

 

[marquette048]

This is not true according to fred/mm. Even his website says that the stainless he uses is the same hardness as his 1144 steel and will wear the same. I cant speak to what grade stainless anyone else uses.

To answer any questions on the materials of the Monster rollers regarding the heat treated steel/stainless steel versions of the MM2-2.0, this is what Fred from Monster Mill emailed me today. Hope this helps....

"Heat treated rollers will last much longer than stainless. Stainless will not rust, heat treated will. Unless you're doing commercial amounts, you can expect the stainless to last quite a long time. We've seen life around 15K lbs. I would recommend stainless if you want to wet mill, but I have had reports of folks that use their regular plain steel mills with wet milling, and they don't have problems with rust. They hold back some of the grain dry to mill after they finish with the wet milling."

~~fred francis
Monster Brewing Hardware

 

[kincade]

kincade, I made the purchase as a one time deal. So I went with the hardened rollers since I suspect I'll be using more and more grain as time progresses. I'd rather have something designed for much heavier use than I'll give it than need to purchase a new mill in X years. For me, the few dollar upgrade to the hardened rollers makes much more sense than going to the stainless rollers. Actually, the hardened rollers are CHEAPER than the stainless rollers. So unless you want more 'bling' in the mill to 'impress your friends' the stainless is a more expensive 'nice to have' item.

Also "...303 Stainless Steel. It will wear just about the same as our 1144 steel..." doesn't mean the stainless will wear as well. I'll have to dig up the emails but I'm pretty sure that 303 stainless is softer than the 1144 steel (even non-hardened).

Get whatever option you want on the rollers, but don't complain after X pounds have gone through the stainless ones about the knurling. Especially when mine will still look brand new in comparison.

Oh, and I do have long term plans for brewing far higher volumes than we can as home brewers. While I'll probably get a larger (probable 3 roller) mill eventually in that instance, it's very comforting to know that my current mill will be up to the task for brewing 10+ barrel batches. :rockin:

I see no reason to argue further. I took Fred at MM at his word, both in email and his website. Both say that 303 stainless will wear about the same as his 1144 steel (again, NOT the hardened). Arguing about a 3% difference in wear is just semantics as far as I am concerned. For me the investment was far greater for a hardened roller and not necessary in my application (and in fact, somewhat counterproductive). Here is what Fred sent me:

Hardened shouldn't be necessary. We get 15K through the standard steel before wear is the problem. I calc about 47 years of life at the rate you're brewing assuming 21 lbs/batch, and 15 a year. the heat treated is for shops, and micro breweries.

Here were the prices for my prospective options (all with the hopper included):

MM-2 with 1/2" shaft in 1144: $172
MM-2 with 1/2" shaft in 303 stainless: $212
MM-2-2.0 (has 1/2" shaft already) in hardened: $251

As the only way to get hardened steel is go to to the larger rollers, the jump was not worthwhile to me especially considering I malt condition and store my mill in my garage. For someone else that stores inside, or runs far greater volume then the hardened would likely be a good buy. Even the 'little' MM-2 is a tank; it's easily 3x the mill as my last barley crusher.

 

[fsfrancis]

I was talking about the regular 1144 steel rollers, not the relatively expensive hardened steel upgrade. For the standard mills he offers this:

"As an upgrade to 1144 steel we offer 303 Stainless Steel. It will wear just about the same as our 1144 steel, but will not rust. Recommended for those that live in salty or moist environments, and those that want to wet mill."

On the 2" roller models he offers these options:

"There are three roller material options available for the larger 2" mills. They come standard with 1144 alloy steel, which offers fantastic wear for home brewers. Plain steel mills kept indoors, and used regularly won't have rust issues. Non climate controlled areas, or minimal usage could see some corrosion come up that is easily removed with a wire brush. As an upgrade to 1144 steel we offer 303 Stainless Steel. It will wear just about the same as our 1144 steel, but will not rust. The last option is for our 1144 steel rollers that have been heat treated/hardened. The regular 1144 alloy rollers are heat treated to approximately 51-54 Rockwell C hardness. This upgrade is what you want for any mill used in a commercial environment. Brew shops, breweries, and only extremely prolific home brewers with tons of drinking buddies need to look at this option."

Fred actually talked me out of the hardened rollers unless "i wanted to impress my friends.". He said at my current schedule it would take 15-20 years to wear the knurl down on the stainless rollers. All depends on the usage.

I don't see that anyone is wrong in what they've posted. Stainless, and non-hardened 1144 should last about the same. Hardened 1144 lasts 5+ times longer than either. Don't have a full on comparison yet because no one has worn out a set yet. Last report was 60K lbs, and going strong, and that was more than a year ago. Most home brewers will never get to 15K before they either quit brewing, or go pro, so heat treated for most folks is not necessary. I know very few regular home brewer/non commercial folks that would need heat treated rollers..

~~fred francis
Monster Brewing Hardware

 

[wfred]

I don't see that anyone is wrong in what they've posted. Stainless, and non-hardened 1144 should last about the same. Hardened 1144 lasts 5+ times longer than either. Don't have a full on comparison yet because no one has worn out a set yet. Last report was 60K lbs, and going strong, and that was more than a year ago. Most home brewers will never get to 15K before they either quit brewing, or go pro, so heat treated for most folks is not necessary. I know very few regular home brewer/non commercial folks that would need heat treated rollers..

~~fred francis
Monster Brewing Hardware

I ordered my MM-2 from you the other day. I can't wait to get it and start crushing some grain.

Thanks,

Fred