Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[Dangeruss]

@mrphillips Save you the time going through all these threads. Go onto Northern Brewers website under web tv they did an episode of this graff thread. They used Apple Cider in their version and went over the tasting notes. Chip W. also has a new video blog called Chop and Brew.

@snooby I did about the same but did a pound of munich malt, you can do an addition of cloves, all spice soaked in 2oz vodka for a week then put in secondary or into bottle/keg. I bottle mine and used dark brown sugar for priming and it gives it a nice element to it.

 

[CliffMongoloid]

Checked on my Graff last night, brewed on saturday (9/28/13) looked to be chugging along nicely then last night when i got home from work no airlock activity and Krausen had fallen..

Did not check gravity but i wouldn't think it would finish in 2 days... Hydrometer broken i am picking one up tonight

Internal temp was at 58 when i got home last night... Let it warm up to 62 when i left for work this morning.... Only changed 1 frozen water bottle so hopefully it stays around that temp and it starts back up

Anyone else run into this issue?

I attempted to step up a half pack of Nottingham... I think i did it correct, made a starter pitched the yeast let it go 2 days on the stir plate then fridge for a day, made another starter, decanted and pitched into new wort and on starter for a day then pitched from starter to graff... Could i have under pitched?

Gravity is at 1.032... Starting a starter of us-05 and will pitch tomorrow

 

[ca2devri]

Hmmm... is this a stuck fermentation? I brewed a Graff on Sept 15 and today (Oct 2) I checked and for the 2nd time in 3 days the hydrometer is saying 1.02 and the airlock has stopped completely. Isn't this too high for it to be finished? Any reason it might be stuck?

I used fresh pressed cider and Nottingham yeast. The OG was 1.065 and it's been at around 68 degrees.

seems too high to bottle but I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Chris

 

[hunter_le five]

Hmmm... is this a stuck fermentation? I brewed a Graff on Sept 15 and today (Oct 2) I checked and for the 2nd time in 3 days the hydrometer is saying 1.02 and the airlock has stopped completely. Isn't this too high for it to be finished? Any reason it might be stuck?

I used fresh pressed cider and Nottingham yeast. The OG was 1.065 and it's been at around 68 degrees.

seems too high to bottle but I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Chris

Sounds like the yeast may have petered out. You might try raising the temps a few degrees and rousing the yeast a bit, and then checking again in a few more days.

1.02 is pretty high for this recipe (my FG was 1.007), but that's still 5.9%abv so it's not horrible attenuation. It will probably just be a little sweeter than intended.

Just to be clear, that's 1.020, and not 1.002, right?

 

[ca2devri]

Yep, 1.02. I check again today. It doesn't taste very sweet. The apples were almost all mcintosh which seems to make a very sour tasting cider.

I won't have time to bottle for at least another week. I might bring it up from the basement to see if that does anything to it. If I was sure it wasn't going to create bottle bombs I'd just bottle it now.

Chris

 

[hunter_le five]

The apples were almost all mcintosh which seems to make a very sour tasting cider.

I don't have any experience with mcintosh, but for what it's worth, all of my ciders have seemed a bit sour until they had time to age.

 

[mrphillips]

The higher FG will probably only mean that your cider will be a little sweeter (because the yeast didn't eat up all that tasty sugar). If it's stable, and your ABV is reasonable, I wouldn't worry about it. It's all about the taste! Convention be d@mned!

 

[ca2devri]

Well I brought it upstairs just now and almost immediately I saw some action (bubbling and airlock). I think from the swishing around because it was too soon for it to warm up. But I do think it was a bit colder down there than I had thought (maybe around 60 F?) So I guess I'll leave it a while longer and see what it does.

Chris

 

[mrphillips]

Just tried my first batch of Graff. I took the original recipe posted and tweeked it a little bit. Will it work? After tasting the wart...there's a very good chance of it!

5 Gallon Batch:

3 Gallons Apple Cider
2 Gallons Water
2 lbs. Extra Pale Malt Extract
1 lb. Brown Sugar
1/2 lb. Crystal 80
1/2 oz. Citra Hops
Yeast: S-04

 

[insanim8er]

I just finished my second all grain graff... I did the same recipe as I did for my pumpkin pie graff (posted above a few weeks ago). But I made a few modifications.

I did half an ounce crystal hops @ 60
I didn't mash with pumpkin, nilla wafers or graham crackers
I added a full LB (vs 1/2) of light brown sugar @ 15

So I did:

3 lb MO 2-row
2 lb crystal 60
1 oz tortified wheat
1 lb light brown sugar
.5 oz crystal hops

I did use Ringwood (1187) with a starter

I added 1 gallon 3qts water to my mash for 60min @ 158f
Mashed out 1 gallon @ 18 brix (1.072)

Batch sparged with 1 gallon @ 170
Second runnings 1 gallon @ 9 brix (1.035)

Combined boil 2 gallons @ 11 brix (1.043)

Final boil gravity was off the charts for the refractometer.

Final gravity (combined with apple juice) 17 brix (1.068)

I'm expecting this to be 7-7.5% ABV

Btw- my efficency SUCKED (~47%). I gotta adjust my grain mill.

I brewed outside on my front porch. I live in a pretty busy neighborhood. I had a few people stop to talk. One guy was skeptical and cringed when I told him what I was making. I offered him some of my pumpkin pie graff that I had on tap. He took me up on it. He loved it and shared with the lady he was with. She loved it too. Ended up being the new neighbor down the street. Good way to meet the neighbors.

 

[eltorrente]

I've been brewing for over 17 years, and I never brewed up a Cider. Glad I found this thread.

I read through the first several pages, and decided to head to the LHBS and brew one up.

I went with:
3lbs light DME
.75lbs Crystal 40
.5 oz Citra boil
.5 oz Citra after boil
1/2 Cinammon stick (Added right after boil, then put into fermenter)
Nottingham Yeast
.75 gallons of wort after boil
4.5 gallons Apple Juice

With that amount of Crystal, I couldn't see a reason for more grains focused on head retention.

I started with 1.25 gallons of water. I steeped the Crystal for 30 mins at 155 degrees. I then added the .5 oz of Citra as I heated up to boil - basically FWH addition. I added the 3lbs of DME and boiled for 30 mins, which took it down to .75 gallons. After the boil I added the half cinammon stick and another .5oz of Citra hops.

I cooled the pot down in the sink of cold water, then mixed it in with the Apple Juice. I used 4.5 Gallons of Apple Juice and the batch was 5.25 gallons, and an OG of 1.068. I dumped the whole pot into the fermenter and didn't bother trying to filter anything.

It started to bubble slowly after about 6 hours.

I'm starting the fermentation at 65 degrees, and will raise it one degree every 12 hours until I hit 69 degrees. I'll hold it there until the kruesen starts to drop, then I'll pull it out and let it finish at room temp. The half cinammon stick is sitting in the fermenter, hopefully it'll give a little bit of flavor without being overpowering.

 

[bssrf4]

I plan on dumping the original recipe on yeast cake from a honey kolsch i'm fermenting now. Any worries?

 

[funkyskier]

I made this about 3 months ago. Fermented for a month or so and bottled. Its really tart. How long in the bottle till this is enjoyable? Or is the tart flavor how Cider should be? Ive made Eds Apfelwein and I have to cut it with Sprite. All I can use as a baseline is commercial cider like Angry Orchard.

 

[BrewerBear]

I plan on dumping the original recipe on yeast cake from a honey kolsch i'm fermenting now. Any worries?

No worries at all.

 

[CliffMongoloid]

I made this about 3 months ago. Fermented for a month or so and bottled. Its really tart. How long in the bottle till this is enjoyable? Or is the tart flavor how Cider should be? Ive made Eds Apfelwein and I have to cut it with Sprite. All I can use as a baseline is commercial cider like Angry Orchard.

Mine is also tart

 

[Redd77]

Mine is also tart

I've made this twice now. The first time I followed the recipe pretty closely and it was tart. Maybe more so than some commercial dry ciders that I've had. I let that batch sit down in the basement for a few months and it mellowed a bit but was still tart. I just recently made a second batch with a few changes. First I used a full pound of Crystal 80 instead of the 1/2 pound of Crystal 60 that was called for. Also once fermentation was complete and the graf had cleared I back sweetened it and dosed it with Potassium Sorbate. Now when I drink this new batch I get the tartness and some apple flavor followed by the maltiness of the grain. Very drinkable.

 

[Dangeruss]

Tasty but next time I won't over toast the fennel seeds

 

[insanim8er]

I've made this twice now. The first time I followed the recipe pretty closely and it was tart. Maybe more so than some commercial dry ciders that I've had. I let that batch sit down in the basement for a few months and it mellowed a bit but was still tart. I just recently made a second batch with a few changes. First I used a full pound of Crystal 80 instead of the 1/2 pound of Crystal 60 that was called for. Also once fermentation was complete and the graf had cleared I back sweetened it and dosed it with Potassium Sorbate. Now when I drink this new batch I get the tartness and some apple flavor followed by the maltiness of the grain. Very drinkable.

I've never made the original recipe. I made mine all grain with 3lb MO and 2lb crystal 80. It wasn't tart at all. It was very drinkable right out of the fermenter.

I'm wondering. Did you use juice that has added vitamin C, or asorbic acid. I read that can add tartness. The juice I use is from costco and it's 100% apple juice (not from concentrate) with out anything added.

 

[mrphillips]

My Graff is still chugging along after being in the primary for 12 days. My OG was 1. 052, and with this lengthy fermentation, I'm expecting it to finish around 1.005. I used 3 gallons apple cider, 2 gallons of water with 2 lbs. of DME, and a pound of brown sugar, so I was surprised that my OG wasn't in the 1.060's range...but I'm excited all the same!

 

[CliffMongoloid]

I've never made the original recipe. I made mine all grain with 3lb MO and 2lb crystal 80. It wasn't tart at all. It was very drinkable right out of the fermenter.

I'm wondering. Did you use juice that has added vitamin C, or asorbic acid. I read that can add tartness. The juice I use is from costco and it's 100% apple juice (not from concentrate) with out anything added.

Just checked the label of the apple juice and it does have Vitamin c added.... Darn

 

[insanim8er]

Just checked the label of the apple juice and it does have Vitamin c added.... Darn

Ya, that's probably the culprit. Maybe try again with a juice that doesn't contain ascorbic acid, and of course no potassium sorbate. If you have a Costco near by, get their Kirkland apple juice. It's around $7.99 for two gallons. The ingredient is nothing more than apple juice and that's it. Everything I've made with it has been good.

If you do get a chance, report back and let us know if you notice a difference.

 

[CliffMongoloid]

Ya, that's probably the culprit. Maybe try again with a juice that doesn't contain ascorbic acid, and of course no potassium sorbate. If you have a Costco near by, get their Kirkland apple juice. It's around $7.99 for two gallons. The ingredient is nothing more than apple juice and that's it. Everything I've made with it has been good.

If you do get a chance, report back and let us know if you notice a difference.

Thanks I'm going to try this recipe with cider.... Maybe even only use 3 gallons and bump up the base and use 4 or 5 lbs of 2 row, .5 crystal 60, .5 carapils what u think?

 

[JhonKa]

This is my 2nd time making Apple Graff. Last time I made it as directed by Brandon and it was delicious. This go around, I substituted the DME for 1.3lbs of Cara Red and 1.3 lbs of american pale malt. I also used .5lbs of 120L crystal malt because I used cheap store brand juice.

It's been in the carboy for 4 days now and still fermenting strong. It has a really nice dark amber color and I can't wait to see how my improvisation worked out.

 

[CliffMongoloid]

Would adding lactose in secondary help with the tartness?

 

[ca2devri]

Hmmm... is this a stuck fermentation? I brewed a Graff on Sept 15 and today (Oct 2) I checked and for the 2nd time in 3 days the hydrometer is saying 1.02 and the airlock has stopped completely. Isn't this too high for it to be finished? Any reason it might be stuck?

I used fresh pressed cider and Nottingham yeast. The OG was 1.065 and it's been at around 68 degrees.

seems too high to bottle but I'm not sure what else to do at this point.

Chris

Update: after 1.5 weeks upstairs and some more fermentation, it has gone down a bit more (maybe 1.016 or so) but seems to have totally stopped again. I think it tastes good now, but am a bit worried about bottle carbing now (will it bee over carb'ed?).

Maybe I mashed at too high a temp and some of the sugars are not converting? I'm new to brewing and did have trouble measuring the mash temperature well so it might have been high.

I'm thinking I will bottle tomorrow and take the chance. Hopefully won't have bottle bombs.

Chris

 

[jeff62217]

Gonna give this a go as my third brew.
I made 2.5 gallons of some good cider with honey and wine yeast. Back sweetened/primed with cran-raspberry juice and sugar. Conditioned to lighly carb'd in a week and put in the kegerator.

Following the recipe to a T... using tree top apple juice, 1lb light 1lb amber DME, .5 oz Willamette, .5lb crystal 120L and 1-2 oz torrified wheat, Nottingham.

 

[BurlyGirl]

This will be my first experience with brewing so I'm VERY excited to be starting with exactly what I was looking for (and thanks again to BGCG for pointing me in the right direction).

Now, one Q? that I haven't been able to find a definite answer for...

I'm using fresh pressed apple cider (will be pasteurizing it) and I'm nervous about how much priming sugar to use. I've seen SO much about bottle bombs and I'd hate to see my first batch go out like that!

 

[eltorrente]

This will be my first experience with brewing so I'm VERY excited to be starting with exactly what I was looking for (and thanks again to BGCG for pointing me in the right direction).

Now, one Q? that I haven't been able to find a definite answer for...

I'm using fresh pressed apple cider (will be pasteurizing it) and I'm nervous about how much priming sugar to use. I've seen SO much about bottle bombs and I'd hate to see my first batch go out like that!

Just leave it in the primary fermenter for a few weeks and make sure fermentation is completely done before bottling it. Once the yeast has eaten all the sugars in the juice, you won't get bottle bombs, because it will only ferment the priming sugar that you added afterwards.

 

[insanim8er]

Just leave it in the primary fermenter for a few weeks and make sure fermentation is completely done before bottling it. Once the yeast has eaten all the sugars in the juice, you won't get bottle bombs, because it will only ferment the priming sugar that you added afterwards.

Unless she puts too much priming sugar in it, or she's fermenting at a super low temp and the sugars aren't being converted during those few weeks. Or even if she doesn't mix the priming sugar properly.

Let it ferment out at proper temps. How long you let it bulk age/condition is up to you, but general rule of thumb is 1-2-3

1 week in primary
2 weeks in secondary
3 weeks in bottle

Whatever you decide to do, once you think it's ready take a hydro sample. Wait a couple days do a second... And then a third. If they're stable all 3 time, you can bottle.

He is a calculator to determine how much sugar to use:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

Be sure to properly mix your priming sugar in your bottling bucket, but be careful not to oxygenate the graff. If you don't mix well you will have inconsistent carbing between bottles, and some bottles can contain too much sugar and can explode.

There are charts out there to determine the amount of co2 you want for particular styles of beer, so you can get an idea of how much carb you want in your graff and adjust the sugar from there. Obviously If you want a hef style carb, you'll use more sugar than say a stout style carb.

 

[MMAniacle]

I recently gave this recipe a shot, and unfortunately used a cider that contains sodium benzoate Is there any chance that I can salvage this batch? After about 2 weeks there is next to no activity going on: in 2 weeks time I have only seen the gravity drop from 1.05 to 1.045

I've read that sometimes dilution and a strong starter may be able to overcome the sodium benzoate, would it be worth brewing up a second batch and mixing the two together? Or should I just cut my loses and start over?