Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[NashamBrewer]

I have a question or two. I've never brewed anything. I am going to try and make the Graff. My first question is. when and how do you add the carbonated to his drink? and what do you use to carbonate it?

More specifically, once fermentation is complete, you'll add priming sugar to your Graf. From what I have read 4oz appears to be the correct amount for a 5 gallon batch. Once you've added the priming sugar this will restart fermentation (which as previously mentioned produces CO2 and alcohol). Once your Graf has reached the levels of carbonation you like you can pasteurize it to kill off any active yeast. Keep in mind that you can produce bottle bombs by:
1) Going overboard with your priming sugar.
2) Adding adequate priming sugar but not checking your carbonation levels.
3) Not pasteurizing your Graf

As stated I'm new to this game also, so if I've provided inaccurate information someone PLEASE correct me. My wife will go nuts if she finds broken bottles in our office.

 

[BrewerBear]

More specifically, once fermentation is complete, you'll add priming sugar to your Graf. From what I have read 4oz appears to be the correct amount for a 5 gallon batch. Once you've added the priming sugar this will restart fermentation (which as previously mentioned produces CO2 and alcohol). Once your Graf has reached the levels of carbonation you like you can pasteurize it to kill off any active yeast. Keep in mind that you can produce bottle bombs by:
1) Going overboard with your priming sugar.
2) Adding adequate priming sugar but not checking your carbonation levels.
3) Not pasteurizing your Graf

As stated I'm new to this game also, so if I've provided inaccurate information someone PLEASE correct me. My wife will go nuts if she finds broken bottles in our office.

4 oz is fine to prime with. Points 2 and 3 are not accurate as there is no need to pasturize this drink.

 

[NashamBrewer]

4 oz is fine to prime with. Points 2 and 3 are not accurate as there is no need to pasturize this drink.

Thank you sir. That's the type of instruction I need.

 

[Zuzu]

ahh. thanks a lot guys for the info!

 

[NashamBrewer]

ahh. thanks a lot guys for the info!

No worries brother. I've learned us new guys have a little learning curve to figure out. I've figured out just enough to get me in trouble and HOPEFULLY produce a good quality product. Lol

 

[Zuzu]

I wonder. is there a change in taste if you do force-carbonating with pressurized CO2 with a keg system. Or should you just let it carb on it's own?

 

[jgonzo108]

So my Graff Cider has been in the bottle for almost three weeks after 2 weeks primary and one in secondary. I followed recipe to the "t", except racking to secondary, using 120l crystal as suggested when using cheaper juice. I used Motts. I used Fuggles for hop addition. I made this for the wife since she is the cider person in the house. Tried one today to see the carb level and check flavor. All I can say is I was disappointed. It's still a little tart and carb levels were still not where I want them to be. I used 3/4 cup corn sugar to prime in a 5 gal batch. As for the flavor, I opted to make this because some said it was compariable to Woodchuck and the wife is a big fan of Woodchuck Cider. I know this recipe is like comparing apples to oranges since Woodchuck is a true cider, but IMO,this is nothing like Woodchuck. The flavor is still a little tart and there is little to no apple flavor. I am gonna let this sit and age for a bit to see how the flavor comes through but I can honestly say that I probably won't brew this again.

 

[LeverTime]

So my Graff Cider has been in the bottle for almost three weeks after 2 weeks primary and one in secondary. I followed recipe to the "t", except racking to secondary, using 120l crystal as suggested when using cheaper juice. I used Motts. I used Fuggles for hop addition. I made this for the wife since she is the cider person in the house. Tried one today to see the carb level and check flavor. All I can say is I was disappointed. It's still a little tart and carb levels were still not where I want them to be. I used 3/4 cup corn sugar to prime in a 5 gal batch. As for the flavor, I opted to make this because some said it was compariable to Woodchuck and the wife is a big fan of Woodchuck Cider. I know this recipe is like comparing apples to oranges since Woodchuck is a true cider, but IMO,this is nothing like Woodchuck. The flavor is still a little tart and there is little to no apple flavor. I am gonna let this sit and age for a bit to see how the flavor comes through but I can honestly say that I probably won't brew this again.

<you may already know this>
You probably need to let this sit longer if it's not even carbed yet.
</you may already know this>

I really like this stuff, but I don't think it tastes very much like Woodchuck cider. A pretty good apple flavor comes through in mine, but I also used some relatively expensive organic apple juice. All the regular apple juice I could find was from China, and I didn't like the idea of drinking Chinese apple juice.

 

[jgonzo108]

Yeah I already knew that. Lol. It is carbed but not to the point where I want but then again most ciders are not carbed like beer. It's going on three weeks in the bottle and we are leaving town for week this coming Saturday. I figured I would let it sit til the before I checked again. That would make five weeks bottle conditioning.

 

[NashamBrewer]

I just finished bottling 24 22oz'rs of my Graf. I primed with 4oz priming sugar now it's time to play the waiting game. I had enough to top off a pint glass for some immediate indulgence. I have to say its still AMAZING. Now I'm ready to get these bad boys carbed up.

 

[Ventucky805]

K brewing a version of this today.

8 oz 60l crystal
Steeped in 1 gal h2o
3 # amber dme (2/3 up front 1/3 late addition)
.5 oz mt rainier hops 6.1 alpha 30 mins (cheapest the lbhs had at $1.25/oz)
Pinch of Irish moss out of habit
4 gal Safeway apple juice
.5 oz mt rainier dry hop (to make up for extra dme and crappy juice)
Pectic enzyme (I'm not going to cool the wort so hopefully this prevents haze)
Nottingham yeast 1 pkg

I know it deviates from op's recipe but hopefully it still turns out good. When I make cider with this juice it winds up around 5% abv so I'm guessing it will end up around 7%. Don't have beer smith so I didn't crouch numbers, but my redneck instincts tell me that the extra malt and dry hop will leave it somewhat balanced still.
Cheers.
Ps thanks Brandon for giving me another excuse to make apple beverage. I'm getting antsy to try my spiced cyser 1 gal experiment batch thats about a month in primary and this provides a perfect distraction that will likely be drinkable way sooner.

 

[fumanchu]

Should be good. I did something similar to this, including the nottingham, only I added dark cherry extract and it's smelling fantastic. I haven't exactly tasted it, it's been aging in secondary for only a month, but nottingham will probably make an awesome cider/graff.

 

[Ventucky805]

Yeah notty is my go to cider yeast (and ale yeast as of late due to my house being in to mid to low 50s for the last several months, had to pitch it in a heffe because the danstar Munich was too sleepy to make bubbles) my "house cider" is the cheapest juice I can find with notty. pretty smooth but a tad tart so I add about 2 oz fresh juice to a pint. Looking forward to not having to back sweeten every single glass. Yay for graff.

 

[yeastieboysbrewing]

Went to the LHBS to get ingredients for this today, doing to brew things up tomorrow. :rockin: Went with:

US-05
.5 lbs caramel 120
1 lb Munton's light DME
1 lb Munton's amber DME
0.5 oz Cascade 6.2% AA
1.0 oz Torrified wheat (need to find a use for the other 15 oz. since they only sell by the pound)
4 gallons apple juice (2 Mott's, 2 Whitehouse)
Yeast nutrient (just figured I should be safe and add some)

Can't wait to try this after all the rave reviews. I'll post back with results in due time.

 

[rjd]

after 3 batches I don't have it nailed down but here are some observations:

apple juice/cider varies wildly: quality in/quality out.
like a wine it may benefit from acid adjustment.
Malto-dextrin for some body.

if you want to get apple taste/nose:
1-1.5 cans of A.J.Concentrate to prime instead of sugar

I like this stuff, my better batch was the first with high grade unfiltered/AJ/Cider w/pectic enzyme.
the cheap aj batch was the worst.

for my next batches I intend to slow down the fermentation with cool temps
so as not to blow off all the apple aroma and try Red Star Cote des Blancs instead of the English ale yeast.

Good Luck!
RJ

 

[TXjayhawk]

I brewed the original recipe about 5 weeks ago using Costco apple juice. It sat in primary for 4 weeks before I bottled. It has been bottle conditioning for just 1 week, but I used one to cook some pulled pork this past weekend. I had to taste it :cross: and it has nice apple aroma and flavor and it is crystal clear, but it is tart.

Does this sweeten up at all as I let in condition? The way it is now, I don't like it, too tart.

 

[ScrewBrew]

@rjd .... I've made cider with Cote du Blanc yeast and it finished off very dry due to the high attenuation (I think) of a wine yeast. .998 if I remember correctly. It was not apple-ly at all and drank more like a wine. Oh.....and be ready for atomic Rhino Farts from outer space!

I'm curious to see how it would turn out with the added (un)fermentables from the Graff recipe.

 

[ScrewBrew]

After posting here and reading through the thread some....I've decided to brew batch #3. Some friends who are more schooled than me in brewing suggested I try a darker grain and some darker malt for more complexity and body.

Here is my Recipe:
- 12 oz 120l Crystal Grain
- 1.5oz Torrified Wheat
- Steeped in 1.25 gal water
- 1lb Dark DME
- 1lb Amber DME
- .5 oz Cascade pellet hops, 3.2% alpha @30 mins
- 4 gallons Mott's Apple Juice
- US-05 yeast, pitched dry over cooled wort @67 degrees

Gravity was 1.060, right on the money. Initial color is much darker than my previous two batches, it looks more like beer.

- I plan to prime with one container of frozen, thawed apple juice concentrate to try and get some apple flavor back in.

 

[JonathanG]

Update:

I bottled my first batch of this at the end of July 2012. It'd been a couple of months since I'd had one, so I decided to crack a bomber open yesterday. IMHO, it's tasting the best it's ever tasted right now. I still have 6-bombers and 2-12-oz. bottles left. It has completely cleared up, and the carbonation is holding up well.

 

[Rustyduck]

Okay, I keep a house cider on tap at all times and the best advise I can give (if you keg) is use the standard recipe and then vary the final product by adding your favorite fruit flavor. I usually do this by adding a gallon of pomagranite/cherry/blueberry or your fav.....right at kegging. This means using about a gallon less apple juice up front to make about 4 gallons cider, so the additional juice at kegging is strictly for backsweetening/flavor. Usually ends up about 6%Abv and very drinkable! This recipe is almost bullet proof, turns out however you adjust. Current batch is a Pom/Blueberry mix by Tropicana....Awesome!

 

[MSU_BREW]

Looking forward to bottling my Graff this weekend!

 

[renderman]

Update on the 50/50 Graf

Buddy took a gravity and it's at 1.006 and to quote him it tasted like vomit!

I told him it needs to sit longer ... We'll rack it in another 2 weeks and let it sit another month before bottling!

Fingers crossed

 

[BBQB]

Update on the 50/50 Graf

Buddy took a gravity and it's at 1.006 and to quote him it tasted like vomit!

I told him it needs to sit longer ... We'll rack it in another 2 weeks and let it sit another month before bottling!

Fingers crossed

I really wanted to like this stuff but I agree with your buddy. I'm hoping it improves with time...but for now it's just taking up space in one of my kegs

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I really wanted to like this stuff but I agree with your buddy. I'm hoping it improves with time...but for now it's just taking up space in one of my kegs

+1 for bottling! =]

 

[casesensative]

So after checking out this thread I came up with my own all-grain recipe and brewed it up today:

I do 3 GAL batches and I used:

.3 lbs Crystal 120L
.6 oz flaked barley (instead of wheat, for head retention - its what I had lying around)
2.4 GAL Motts Apple Juice
.6 Gal water (for wort)
.3 oz EK Goldings (whole hops)
3 Lbs. Maris Otter Pale Malt

rehydrated and pitched US-05 somewhere around 60F

Measured OG was 1.062.

Here's to hoping this turns out well!

Anyone have any idea how much AJ concentrate to use at bottling time for a 3 GAL batch to help give it more sweetness?

Will let everyone know how it turns out!

 

[Pastorken]

Great, fun recipe. I scaled it down to just 1 gallon and cracked the first bottle after 3 weeks conditioning.
Yuck!
Lol! It's way too bitter for a cider and too sour for a beer (and I like sour beers!) so here's hoping it gets better with age. At least I only have 4 more bombers to store, so no big waste.

 

[Wraithraider]

Morning all!
Anybody else have the flavor cycle, while in a keg, of too young then just right then 'oh god get it out of my mouth'?
I'm curious because I'm worried this is normal, seeing some of the more recent posts talking about bitter, sour, and vomitous.
Mine has been in the keg about a month now and the transition has been interesting. Anytime I drink it now seems to be more in the name of science than actual enjoyment.
Thanks for any feedback. Cheers!

 

[Bobbybob]

My batch has been bottled for eight days now and is starting to taste more like a beer/cider. It is still pretty bad but has improved remarkably in a little more than a week. I followed the recipe with Kirkland aj.

 

[SilverZero]

Bottled my first batch of this February 23rd, 8 gallons using the OP recipe and Kirkland AJ with some Cascades hops. Just tried my first bottle on Friday, and I think it's good! Definitely good enough to keep around and age even if my friends don't like it.

 

[Dust]

I was excited to brew some Graff for my next endeavor but these last few reviews have been quite discouraging... I had thought that this was do-able in just a few weeks to a month but it seems like it may take months (like Apfelwein) for the taste to turn out the way it should... is this the case?