Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[ksb63]

First batch boiling away, stuck to original recipe this time. Fermentation chamber at 67.5 everything ready for carboy.

 

[hopdropper]

Well add another fan of graff to this thread! Figured I'd give it a shot...Treetop AJ and Cascade hops. Love this stuff. It's been in the bottle about three weeks and is totally drinkable...almost too good really. It packs a punch...half way through the pint and I got a buzz. Nice. Wondering though...it has a very subtle, slightly tart apple flavor...was thinking about adding a splash of apple extract from Midwest in the next batch. It isn't fermentable...supposed to just add the flavor. Anyone try that yet? Oh, and check out the label I scratched up on the Beer Labelizer website...

 

[bovinejony]

As an attempt to make an apple-pumpkin cider, I brewed a graff like recipe a month ago. I followed Brendon's recipe except for the following changes:

-Used Rogue's pacman yeast (cultured from the shakespeare stout, used just because I wanted to try it out)
-Added Centennial hops as per recipe, but also added 1/2 oz for dry hopping
-Added a pumpkin and spice slosh to the secondary for a week. Not knowing that pumpkin is best to be mashed with the grain load, and forgetting to do so during the mash/brew day, I wasn't sure how to prepare it to be added to the secondary. I know that I could just add pumpkin pie spices, but i really wanted to add pumpkin into the beer. Some reading on HBT revealed that unmashed pumpkin can leave a starchy mouth feel, and doesn't add much. In an attempt to reduce this, I "mashed" 4 16oz cans of organic pumpkin (added about quarter gallon of H2O) at 150F for 45mins (couldn't find on google whether pumpkin even has B-amylase, but what the hell), strained the slosh so as to minimize the retention of fiberous clumps, added spices (quarter tsp of each: nutmeg, cinnamon, allspice, ginger)to the liquid run off, and boiled for 10mins. I then cooled and added with the dry hops to the secondary.

I tasted it at bottling and could not detect a strong pumpkin flavor, but also did not detect any starch off-flavors. It's only been a week, so in about another week or two I will crack one open and report on the final product.

 

[ZombieBrew83]

hopdropper-
I've played around with adding more malt and/or using less apple juice to offset the tartness you speak of. I posted my latest results a few pages back if you're interested. Nice label!

bovinejony-
Please keep us updated! This recipe is so fun to play around with. I am very interested to hear about your results!

 

[gelatin]

Cherry graf above is coming along well, no change in gravity since day 3, still at 1.030. Getting much smoother already, with another week or two and possibly some backsweetening, this is going to be awesome.

 

[blstr]

Put my 2gallons in a TAD today with a few bottles to spare. WOW! I can't wait for this to carb up. If it's better than my yeasty dregs sample...this is fantastic! The only thing I may do next time is add some frozen concentrate to backsweeten but probably not it's great as is.

 

[Rondacker]

Tastes really good. In keg a couple of weeks. Yum!

 

[bovinejony]

Update from previous post:

Similar to most posts in this thread my graff came out a tad tart and lacking a perfect level of 'sweetness'. My attempt to 'mash' pumpkin and add it to secondary was successful on one half as it did not impart any off-flavors or mouth feel, as well as providing an excellent aroma, but was unsuccessful in imparting an obvious pumpkin flavor to the beer. Next time I will probably increase the amount of spice and pumpkin I add, as well as adding it during the boil/mash. I also feel like the cider could use an even stronger malt-base, as it is still rather 'cider-ish' as pertaining to that.

That said, this graff is incredibly tasty and easy to drink. Oddly, my first sip all I can taste is the sharp tartness of the cider, but by the 3rd sip I hardly notice it and begin to notice the subtle malt-spice base of the beer. I dry hopped and added 1/2oz hops to the boil and can't taste them in the cider, but get that nice refreshing hop sensation when I burp (come on, we all love it). The spice adds a nice aroma, although I think I will add a slightly larger amount for the next graff. I also want to play with addidnt slightly more body to the graff, as some have done in the thread; maybe adding more like 30-50% of the graff as the malt base, and the rest the AJ.

Anyway, here's to one hell of a winter beer.

 

[PowPow]

Whats your experience regarding time in fermentor? The original post says 2 weeks, then bottle or keg. Has anyone experienced any pros or cons with leaving it in the primary fermentor for more than two weeks?

 

[nightrider069]

it looks like mine stalled what to do?? re pitch with a nutrient

 

[gelatin]

Stalled where, with what OG and recipe?

 

[nightrider069]

i used the recipe as posted on the first page it only been in the primary 3 days and not much is happening and there is not a lot of karsun in the top I haven't took a gravity reading but I know that it isnt normal og was 1.050

 

[blstr]

Mine had a very small krausen the first few days w/minimal airlock activity. It fell to the bottom early day 3 then it took off like crazy...like 6 or more inches of frothy goodness on top. Relax and give it another 48hrs.

 

[gelatin]

Mine had fairly small krausen and stayed that way the whole time, though I had huge airlock activity. More or less finished fermenting in 4 days. Settled at 1.028 FG, which due to the amount of lactose I added is about right (OG 1.082). Still a bit tart, but it has a sweetness to it that I think will come out nicely in a few more weeks as the tartness hopefully mellows.

 

[capnjb]

would love to hear how this turns out as I have some extra flaked barley and was thinking of substituting that for the torrified wheat as well.

It worked just fine with the flaked barley. Fair amount of head when poured from the keg. It hangs out for a bit then fades... but laces the glass nicely. It's not clear by any stretch of the imagination, but it's actually quite a bit better than I was expecting.

Once your mind understands that you're drinking a cider based drink it becomes easily quaffable in large amounts. It doesn't finish tart like a cider so it's not difficult to lose count of the trips to the well, if you get my meaning

I drank graff almost exclusively while watching football this past weekend. I'm pretty sure I put a major dent in the keg. It's tough having the tv in plain view of the taps... too easy to top off a half full glass

 

[JonM]

I pushed a case of this stuff to the back of the brew closet and kinda forgot about it for a while. Previous batches didn't last long, but that forgotten case has been aging for about 8 months. I had a bottle the other day and it is incredible with a few months of aging. It's good after a couple weeks, but amazing after a few months. Cheers!

 

[nightrider069]

well there is still airlock activity but very slow I guess I will leave it alone for a few weeks to see what happens. Is is my first Graff an cider I have been doing partical mash and I am planning on doing my first all grain soon

 

[Sharkman20]

I kegged mine up the other day. It was very tart at room temp... like pucker your arsehole tart, but it wasn't so bad when it was cold so I racked it on top of one can of apple juice concentrate in the keg and threw it in the fridge at 35 degrees to force carb.

 

[Stovetop535]

Read through the first 30 pages along with the last 5 and decided I will be trying this out here this weekend or the next. Just a couple questions I have since I will be bottling and kegging some.

1) For the individuals who are kegging, are you setting and forgetting it or quick carbing? Also, what seems to be the preferred level or carbonation for this drink?

2) Are bottle bombs with the Graff not an issue?

I am new to the cider world and dont want to blow anything up in the house (pretty sure I would be banished to the garage if this happened). Does this mean all the fermentation is done after 2 weeks and that is why it is safe to bottle? I take it this is considered a finished cider, not a sweet cider?

 

[ZombieBrew83]

Read through the first 30 pages along with the last 5 and decided I will be trying this out here this weekend or the next. Just a couple questions I have since I will be bottling and kegging some.

1) For the individuals who are kegging, are you setting and forgetting it or quick carbing? Also, what seems to be the preferred level or carbonation for this drink?

2) Are bottle bombs with the Graff not an issue?

I am new to the cider world and dont want to blow anything up in the house (pretty sure I would be banished to the garage if this happened). Does this mean all the fermentation is done after 2 weeks and that is why it is safe to bottle? I take it this is considered a finished cider, not a sweet cider?

I bottled mine so I cannot comment on kegging advice. Bottle bombs are always an issue. However, if you treat you're yeast right they'll chew through this in no time. Both Notty and S-05 finish fast. Two weeks with the appropriate conditions should be plenty of time. Plus the sugar in the apple juice is mostly simple sugars that are easy for the yeast to devour.

This recipe will be dry and tart. NOT a sweet cider. If you are worried about it being too tart you can add an extra lb of DME to the boil to help prop up your FG. I prefer doing this over the original recipe. Although it covers up the apple flavor in favor of malty beer sweetness a little more. Either way, it is a very unique and delicious drink.

 

[gelatin]

Bottle bombs are just as much an issue with Graff as with any bottle conditioned cider or beer. Priming sugar will restart fermentation and produce the CO2 that carbonates the Graff. Only if you want to drink it flat though and skip the priming sugar do you not need to worry about bottle pressure. Some people over-prime the Graff and then pasteurize it to get residual sweetness - once the beer is pasteurized, it will not produce any more CO2.

 

[bovinejony]

2 weeks into bottle conditioning and the graff has improved significantly from 1 week. Either the increased carbonation is subduing the tartness or the tart-contributing elements have been conditioned out. I had added some spice and pumpkin to it and now notice a stronger presence of those flavors now that the tartness is under control. I also dry hopped this cider with half oz hops. It is nice to have the aroma, but for such a spicy winter beer I would not dry hop it again, as it kinda conflicts with the mood of the graff.

Damn excited to show this one off this holiday season =)

 

[Stovetop535]

Thanks for the replies. I will probably start with the originally recipe and see how dry and tart it is. I want to try and keep the apple flavor the first time around, so I will probably skip the extra dme.

Bottle bombs are just as much an issue with Graff as with any bottle conditioned cider or beer. Priming sugar will restart fermentation and produce the CO2 that carbonates the Graff. Only if you want to drink it flat though and skip the priming sugar do you not need to worry about bottle pressure. Some people over-prime the Graff and then pasteurize it to get residual sweetness - once the beer is pasteurized, it will not produce any more CO2.

So maybe double the amount of priming sugar and then pasteurize once the bottles are carbed to the levels of my liking? I saw 7/8 of a cup recommended as the amount of priming sugar, so basically just go up from there and understand that I need to pasteurize the bottles.

Anyone else with comments on kegging and carbonation?

 

[daggers_nz]

hi there, haven't read thread but could you sub out some of the apple juice for concentrate+water to cut costs?

 

[nightrider069]

Wow I thought it was a stuck fermentation but I just checked the fg and it was 1.006 started at 1.050. Wow it tasted great I will be doing it again soon.. :rockin:

 

[JonM]

hi there, haven't read thread but could you sub out some of the apple juice for concentrate+water to cut costs?

As long as the concentrate has no potassium sorbate or BHT it should be fine.

 

[Sharkman20]

Has anyone tried this with a pre-spiced cider yet? How did it turn out? Did the flavors carry over well after primary?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Has anyone tried this with a pre-spiced cider yet? How did it turn out? Did the flavors carry over well after primary?

Pre-spiced like the kind available at Trader Joe's? Tried it. Came out like... um, ass. It was terrible. I so wanted it to be good, too. It's was just too off-balance.

 

[Sharkman20]

Yea, figured I'd ask. The whole foods here sells an organic fresh pressed spiced cider and it tastes awesome, but I don't know how well the spices and whatnot would stand up to primary fermentation. I'll throw a cinnamon stick and some other stuff in secondary on my next batch and see how that turns out.

 

[Rustyduck]

Yea, figured I'd ask. The whole foods here sells an organic fresh pressed spiced cider and it tastes awesome, but I don't know how well the spices and whatnot would stand up to primary fermentation. I'll throw a cinnamon stick and some other stuff in secondary on my next batch and see how that turns out.

Yeah, I have made the bas recipe over 10 times and in my experience have found that any flavor additions were most notable after the primary fermentation was complete. Tried with cinnamon, nutmeg and clove and the primary fermentation chewed right through most of the flavor, I now add any flavor enhancements to the bottom of my keg and rack onto that and immediately chill. You can add the spiced cider then if thats the flavor profile you are after, just chill immediately if you keg to prevent further fermentation. Works like a charm with cherry concentrate too.

 

[blascar]

so good

 

[blascar]

im sure it says somewhere on these 191 pages but what color bottle should i use? green bottle like a woodchuck? or clear or brown? i guess it wont matter too much since it has little hops but does anyone have a suggestion

 

[mike_in_ak]

Having read it all, I actually don't remember seeing that. Default to brown.

 

[TAPPAR]

I have used concentrate, most of the cheap apple juice you use is actually from concentrate anyway.

 

[allottc]

Love the Dark Tower series. Love this recipe. Great Job.

 

[OcularTrauma]

Anyone used liquid malt extract? Last time I did this, I followed the original recipe exactly and it was great! This time my LHBS was out of dry, so I picked up 3.3lbs of LME. I've read that its 1.25:1 for LME : DME so I'm gong to use 2.5lbs. Any issue there? I'm also switching over to C120 so I'm a bit worried about residual sweetness with the LME.

The plan tonight is to make 5g exactly like the first time, and 5g with some different hops and darker extract, closer to the https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f78/gunslingers-graff-147726/ recipe.

Anyway, I went to buy a total of 4oz of torrified wheat (2oz per batch) and I ended up with 4oz per batch! It's already crushed so I'll probably just got for it, but now I'm worried :/

Love this stuff! Anyone on the fence should really give it a try while there is still fresh cider to be had :rockin:

 

[MacrosNZ]

Anyone used liquid malt extract?

I use LME. I just chuck in a 1.5kg can and be done with it. Still turns out great.

 

[gelatin]

I bottled my cherry graff today after three weeks in primary. The pound of lactose gives it a heavy mouthfeel like juice, which is great. There's still a bit of tartness, but once it's carbonated, further conditioned, and chilled I think it's going to be quite drinkable. I also added an equivalent to 3/4 cup sugar from sucralose, and carbs for 3 volumes CO2.

 

[Stovetop535]

Just put my first batch into the primary last night. No signs of fermentation yet, but it is a little cold in the basement ~58*. I used nottingham yeast and their webpage says recommended temp for fermentation is 57-70* with a good tolerance down to 54*, so I think it will be fine.

I did pitch rehydrated yeast, so hopefully I will get some sings soon.

One quick question, for those who keg this, have you tried different levels of carbonation? If so, where do you carb yours at?

 

[daggers_nz]

I also added an equivalent to 3/4 cup sugar from sucralose, and carbs for 3 volumes CO2.

are you a bit worried about bottle bombs at 3 volumes?