Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[knotquiteawake]

@Knot, I was just looking on here actually to see if anyone had ideas on how to sweeten this just a bit. I don't want it super sweet but just a bit sweeter would be nice i think for the wife and others that like this type of cider. So, you said a can of AJ concentrate was too sweet so you think half a can might be best? or what do you think? Just add 1/3 can and mix it together and taste then add more if needed? Any other ideas on sweetner?
Thanks!

Are you kegging your cider? That's the only way I know to sweeten it. While kegging add some potassium sorbate and Camden tablets to kill the yeast. Then add your half can of AJ concentrate and get your keg shake on until its all mixed in and try it out. Once it's sweet to your liking hit it with the CO2 and enjoy once carbed. If you are bottling you'd have to look up how to pasteurize the bottles to keep them from exploding.

 

[Matteo57]

I have it kegged right now and carbed up. It still needs some time to condition. Still doesn't taste up to where it should imo. So, I couldn't pop the top on the keg and throw in a bit of the AJ concentrate and then put the top back up and plug it with c02 then slowly mix it up a bit and go with it that way?

 

[knotquiteawake]

I have it kegged right now and carbed up. It still needs some time to condition. Still doesn't taste up to where it should imo. So, I couldn't pop the top on the keg and throw in a bit of the AJ concentrate and then put the top back up and plug it with c02 then slowly mix it up a bit and go with it that way?

If you keep it cold you will probably be ok. Adding more sugar now runs the risk of the yeast waking up and causing a ruckus if the keg gets warm. Otherwise you might as well try it, it's going to be kind of foamy after you shake it all up.

 

[Clifton]

I made a Ffarg. It's the exact opposite of Graff. 2 gallons juice and four pounds DME with 1/2 lb. Crystal 120l, boiled 1 oz. Willamette 4.8%aa for one hour for a 5 gallon batch.

Graff is a good cider but Ffarg is much more to my liking.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I made a Ffarg. It's the exact opposite of Graff. 2 gallons juice and four pounds DME with 1/2 lb. Crystal 120l, boiled 1 oz. Willamette 4.8%aa for one hour for a 5 gallon batch.

Graff is a good cider but Ffarg is much more to my liking.

Interesting... what's the ballpark ABV? How would you compare the two, taste-wise?

 

[Clifton]

My estimated OG was supposed to be 1.050-55 but I forgot to take gravity until the next day and it was 1.044. It finished at 1.010.

It's still not carbed up fully but I like my graff with a very light carb anyway. The Ffarg is more like an apple ale. It's maltier with less tartness and more rounded apple presence.

Give it a try and let me know what you think.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Give it a try and let me know what you think.

I think I will! I have a dedicated cider bucket with a nearly-ready-to-bottle batch of Graff in it now, and your recipe is next!

 

[diablodawg]

Pitched my first batch of this last night. Smelled good.

 

[beamaeb]

I brewed 5 gallons of this 3 weeks ago. I wanted it ready for a holiday party for tomorrow night. I was really nervous right out of primary because despite all accounts, it was not tasting good. Very foul smell right out of primary, extremely potent sour taste. Fast forward a week (tonight) after kegging and carbing and it's super, super good.

I made it to the recipe, with 120L Crystal instead of 60L (based on his comment if using store bought juice). I used 4 gallons of WalMart 100% juice.

It's super strong, and super good. I would say it's on the sour side of the spectrum, but I like sour drinks to begin with, but it's got a good beer body and feel as well.

I think people's biggest hang up with this drink will be if they are handed a glass and take a swig the cider will catch them totally off guard, since it looks like a beer, but will hit them hard with a cider punch. It won't matter though because after just a few gulps the 7.5% ABV will kick in and it'll be lights out before they know it.

I'm immediately going to brew a second batch as soon as I have the time, since I'm 100% sure my holiday party will consume the whole 5 gallons, or however much is left after I'm done tonight (4.5 gallons maybe???).

 

[modernlifeisANDY]

So I brewed this up three weeks ago, and kegged it tonight. Holy **** this stuff is good! I ended up boiling off too much wort so my final count was around 4.5 gallons instead of 5, and that extra half gallon made this stuff STRONG! It's a it dry, citrusy, appley, and fantastic! Can't wait to just demolish the keg!

FWIW I changed the recipe a bit, using more Crystal and a few other specialties I had lying around. I used Cascade for my hop of choice, but the idea to mix malt and apple is all Brandon O's

 

[KCBigDog]

I made a Ffarg. It's the exact opposite of Graff. 2 gallons juice and four pounds DME with 1/2 lb. Crystal 120l, boiled 1 oz. Willamette 4.8%aa for one hour for a 5 gallon batch.

Graff is a good cider but Ffarg is much more to my liking.

You should post the full Ffarg recipe.

 

[Clifton]

I don't have a beersmith file or anything on it but I did start a new thread with a few more details.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ffarg-apple-ale-287198/

 

[knotquiteawake]

I just realized I made a mistake on this most recent batch. My brain misfired and I put the whole 1oz of 5% cascade hops into the boil instead of just .5oz. I was already planning on back sweetening it but should i still be expecting it to need extra extra extra aging to let the hops die down a bit?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I just realized I made a mistake on this most recent batch. My brain misfired and I put the whole 1oz of 5% cascade hops into the boil instead of just .5oz. I was already planning on back sweetening it but should i still be expecting it to need extra extra extra aging to let the hops die down a bit?

I wouldn't worry about it. I made a batch with an ounce of Cascade in October and sucked it down just as soon after bottling it as my other batches.

 

[knotquiteawake]

I wouldn't worry about it. I made a batch with an ounce of Cascade in October and sucked it down just as soon after bottling it as my other batches.

Good to hear. I am planning on kegging it this weekend and bringing it to a new years party the following weekend... I'll probably wait until everyone's had a drink or two first so their senses are dulled and then start handing out the knockout juice and see what happens.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Good to hear. I am planning on kegging it this weekend and bringing it to a new years party the following weekend... I'll probably wait until everyone's had a drink or two first so their senses are dulled and then start handing out the knockout juice and see what happens.

It's just one of those things where you go with your gut and your palate. Since it's not a clone of anything, nobody is going to say "man, this is hoppier than I expected it to be". Keg it, carb it, and taste it. Taste good? Then it's ready to go. Too green? Then start with some hoppy beer and switch to graff and nobody will notice.

I know folks age graff, but I haven't bothered, because it tastes great the day I bottle it. Would it taste better after a month? Sure, I guess, but I've never had any last long enough to find out!

Of course, my opinions are just that.

 

[richwerth]

 

[richwerth]

I'm a newb with this and am wondering about pasturizing. Do I need to do that with cider? Another thread I read on here says I need to watch out for shrapnel if I don't.

 

[solavirtus]

I'm a newb with this and am wondering about pasturizing. Do I need to do that with cider? Another thread I read on here says I need to watch out for shrapnel if I don't.

It depends on what you start with and what ingredients you use. You shouldn't need to pasteurize any juice you use if you buy juice that's already been pasteurized. And you're boiling the "partial mash" portion of the recipe, so that's clean. I would suggest boiling, or at least pasteurizing any juice or cider you use that hasn't already been through that.

 

[Matteo57]

I'm a newb with this and am wondering about pasturizing. Do I need to do that with cider? Another thread I read on here says I need to watch out for shrapnel if I don't.

Sorry for the lame question, but what are you talking about, shrapnel?

 

[phero66]

Well I followed the recipe and did not boil my " pasteurized" apple juice, just added to fermentor with my boiled wort. At about 1.5 months in I noticed some build up in the bottles that did not look like yeast, at 2 months the infection was so bad half of a 22oz bottle was full of some sort of floating masses. Mind you that when bottled it was as clear as any beer I've made. They tasted fine but after the 1.5 mark I wouldn't touch them... So I would boil your juice for at least 15-30min to insure nothing is still in it or on the lip of the container, etc.

 

[richwerth]

Sorry for the lame question, but what are you talking about, shrapnel?

I read it in another post. someone was referring to bottles exploding.

 

[Clifton]

What Richwerth is talking about is sweetening his cider and pastuerizing after it is bottled so that he can have bottled and carbonated cider without the use of kegging equipment.

Is that correct Rich?

 

[Clifton]

Rich, an easy way to get a little sweeter product without worrying about bottle bombs is to use a lower attenuating yeast and use more caramel malt.

My suggestion is to try the recipe as listed, prime and bottle as you normally would. After you taste the first batch you can tweek the next one with more caramel malt or a different yeast.

 

[Guinness]

I just realized I made a mistake on this most recent batch. My brain misfired and I put the whole 1oz of 5% cascade hops into the boil instead of just .5oz. I was already planning on back sweetening it but should i still be expecting it to need extra extra extra aging to let the hops die down a bit?

Just put on another batch tonight (was mulling some wine, and felt like doing a brew!) and had .5 oz of chinook, a personal favorite hop; it's about 12%, so we'll see how it goes! I've made about half a dozen batches of this, but always stuck with a noble hop like fuggles, or NZ Hallertau. We'll see how the extra bitterness works.

 

[knotquiteawake]

I just realized I made a mistake on this most recent batch. My brain misfired and I put the whole 1oz of 5% cascade hops into the boil instead of just .5oz. I was already planning on back sweetening it but should i still be expecting it to need extra extra extra aging to let the hops die down a bit?

I Kegged it and sweetened it with a full can of AJ concentrate (SWMBO demanded it), it's really good. Like a tart AJ soda, almost no hint of alcohol. The hops leave a slight green hoppyness on the back of the throat though. Had I used a half oz like I intended this would not be there.

 

[tdogg]

first batch in the fermenter tonight! i went "all grain":

1 pound c-120
1 oz torrified wheat
4 pounds briess 2 row
s-04 yeast
.5 oz golding hops

 

[PortlandPatrick]

...almost no hint of alcohol...

Yep, this is potentially dangerous stuff!

 

[je52rm]

Noob here. so i followed brandons recipe exactly. My first time ever using dry yeast (safale-05). pitched the dry yeast directly out of packet(as per instructed from brew store) at 72 degrees F. into glass carboy that had been fully sanitized in iodaphor solution overnight then left to drain. less than 12 hours later theres about 20-30 small white "mold" looking spots directly below the blow off tube stopper at top of glass carboy. could it be that a few granules of yeast got stuck on there and started to grow? and if thats the case, am I at risk of losing my first batch of graff due to infection? i would hope and imagine that if its the same yeast there wont be any problems

also in my experience (only 3 ale batches...brown ale, ESB, and Apricot IPA) when i use white labs liquid ale yeast i notice much more krausen activity. its been almost 48 hours since i pitched yeast into the graff and theres been minimal krausen. i used a blowoff tube thinking it would go crazy with all the sugars from the AJ but it has not even come close to blowing out. is this normal for graff vs. ales? also could this be because i used dry yeast directly pitched vs. liquid yeast?

 

[Jewrican]

cant really comment on the infection part of this but ciders have MUCH less activity than beers do... you wont see much Krausen buildup etc.