Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[onipar]

Good question, I wonder what other folks prefer, too. I like it straight out of the fridge.

I like it best after it warms a tad from the fridge. Honestly, as I drank the flat, warm sample, I told my brother I could drink the stuff that way it's so good.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I like it best after it warms a tad from the fridge. Honestly, as I drank the flat, warm sample, I told my brother I could drink the stuff that way it's so good.

I had (and really enjoyed) a pint of it at 65 degrees (and uncarbonated) today when I took a large gravity sample... clearly I don't stick by my "straight from the fridge" statement.

 

[Tbnguy]

I am very new to brewing (3 batches so far) so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I've read almost all 100 pages of this thread and can't remember if I saw this. I just brewed this tonight and can't wait to try it! My question is when I am bottling in a couple weeks, do I just use regular priming sugar like I have for the past 3 ale kits I brewed?

 

[CA-LT1]

@Tbnguy: yes!

 

[HIbrew]

Looked in on my graff again today. I took a full hydrometer sample and it settled out at 1.1018. I drank the sample after, and I like where it ended up a lot. I'd like to try doing this with other juices, basically whatever is on sale at the local BJ's. Anyone done any experimenting with other malt based fruit juice fermentations?

I really think the suggestion I read somewhere to begin fermentation with just wort and then add in juice as the fermentation slows has a lot of merit with this method to get more of the fruit character in the final drink.

 

[spazzy]

Hey guys two quick questions. I am planning on making 3.5 gallons due to the amount of bottles I have.

1. I am going to use safale 05. Will pitching the entire packet be overpitching?

2. Per my calculations to 3.5 gallons the recipe calls for 1.4 lbs DME, what happens if i go with 1 lb? Or is there a way to use LME? as my local homebrew shop pours it by the pound

 

[HIbrew]

Spazzy:

1. I am not sure what cell count your Safale US-05 would have per packet, but I pitched a full packet of Safale S-04 into my Graff and it is fine. Don't worry, relax and have a homebrew.

2. I would use more DME rather than less when I brew up my next batch. More body and more fermentables. Then again, you could buy two pounds and then make the recipe as you calculated and use the left over 0.6 lbs to make yeast starter or canned wort or culture plates, etc... The list goes on and on.

 

[Clifton]

Use 1.75lbs LME. Most DME is 45 points per gallon. Most LME is 36 ppg. Therefore it is a 4 to 5 ratio. 1 pound DME is 1.25 LME. 1 pound LME is .8 DME. This isn't 100% correct all of the time but is close enough for most brands.
RDWHAHB.

 

[MrOH]

Just brewed an adjusted version today, can't wait to try it.

5gal cider
1# 60L crystal malt
3.3# briess amber lme
1oz spalt (5%AA)
S-04 yeast

OG 1.065

Going to try to keep it in the low 60s during fermentation.

 

[Clifton]

MrOH, sounds delicious. I'm going to be doing a variant myself. Let us know how yours turns out.

 

[knappetak]

Has anyone determined the best carbonation level for Brandon's Graff? Getting ready to throw into a keg shortly and wanted to see if anyone had experimented with different levels of PSI in their kegs as I know it can affect different kinds of beers. For instance I have Porter that needs to be at a much different PSI than my wheat beer

 

[Clifton]

I carbonate my at 5psi and 40 deg. F.

 

[spazzy]

I was doing some reading and just had a question. Does anyone get the dreaded "rhino farts" with this Graff recipe?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I was doing some reading and just had a question. Does anyone get the dreaded "rhino farts" with this Graff recipe?

Yep, especially if you're using a lager yeast.

 

[spazzy]

I'm using safale 05, the gf might not like it lol.

 

[29thfloor]

Just did a batch of this last night with a somewhat modified recipe based on what I had on hand.

4 gallons Mott's Natural apple juice
5 oz Belgian Aromatic Malt
2 oz Flaked Wheat
1 gallon water
2lb light DME
0.3 oz UK Kent Goldings
Nottingham yeast

Ended up doing sort of a mini-mini-mash since the Belgian Aromatic was the only other malt I had laying around. 45 min at 153 degrees in 3/4 gal water and then sparged with the other 1/4 gallon at 165. Maybe not the best idea but I'm interested to see how it turns out.

 

[Tbnguy]

I just tasted my first Graff and it was great! This is only my 4th batch of brewing anything, and my first attempt at brewing without a recipie kit. I let it sit in primary for 3 weeks then in bottle for 12 days now. It was super easy, and tastes good even this early! Thanks Brandon for the recipie. I see myself brewing this quite often! Now the question is do I share when everyone comes over for Thanksgiving tomorrow, or keep it all to myself?! I plan on giving some away, along with a couple other homebrews for Christmas.

 

[tonyolympia]

After 14 days, I took gravity readings three days apart on my batch of graff and it was at 1.010 each time. Gravity appears stable, and it seems like it's time to bottle, but I wonder--what makes some batches of graff drop close to 1.000, and others stop at a higher FG? Every batch is made mostly of apple juice, so it seems like mash temp, etc. would have less of an impact. Is it the yeast? I used 1272, American Ale II, and at 1.010 SG I've already exceeded the stated attenuation range for that yeast by about 8%.

I've never made any king of cider before, so I thought I'd ask for advice before bottling. Do you think my graff will continue to drop?

 

[solavirtus]

After 14 days, I took gravity readings three days apart on my batch of graff and it was at 1.010 each time. Gravity appears stable, and it seems like it's time to bottle, but I wonder--what makes some batches of graff drop close to 1.000, and others stop at a higher FG? Every batch is made mostly of apple juice, so it seems like mash temp, etc. would have less of an impact. Is it the yeast? I used 1272, American Ale II, and at 1.010 SG I've already exceeded the stated attenuation range for that yeast by about 8%.

I've never made any king of cider before, so I thought I'd ask for advice before bottling. Do you think my graff will continue to drop?

I'm not sure about how the FG is lower sometimes than others, my first back of graff is still in the primary. But as far as yeast attenuation, I would say that since most of the sugars in this recipe are really simple (like from apple juice) then almost all yeast strains are going to eat it up pretty easily, and leave very little residuals sugars. The attenuation range given for yeast is calculated using some standard malted grain wort, not something full of simple sugars like in apple juice. This has definitely been my experience with cider/juice-based fermentations. My first try I did a split batch with highly attenuative yeast, and one with a much lower attenuation, and they finished at the same FG.

 

[Matteo57]

So everyone is stating that it tastes pretty good right off the bat after carbing it and aging around 2-3 weeks. I brewed it on Oct. 31st and kegged it on the 18th of Nov. So it has only been in the keg about a week and a half but it is no where near good yet. I'm hoping I didn't do anything wrong but I don't how as it's a pretty easy recipe to follow. I used Safale us-05 for it if that matters. It has a really tart and tangy finish and isn't very good at all in my oppinion.
Is it just still too young or did I do something wrong possibly? I plan on letting it just sit in my kegerator for another 2-3 weeks and then taste it again and hope for the best.

 

[tonyolympia]

I'm not sure about how the FG is lower sometimes than others, my first back of graff is still in the primary. But as far as yeast attenuation, I would say that since most of the sugars in this recipe are really simple (like from apple juice) then almost all yeast strains are going to eat it up pretty easily, and leave very little residuals sugars. The attenuation range given for yeast is calculated using some standard malted grain wort, not something full of simple sugars like in apple juice. This has definitely been my experience with cider/juice-based fermentations. My first try I did a split batch with highly attenuative yeast, and one with a much lower attenuation, and they finished at the same FG.

Thanks, SV. I went ahead and bottled, so we'll see. I used carbonation drops, another first for me.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

So everyone is stating that it tastes pretty good right off the bat after carbing it and aging around 2-3 weeks. I brewed it on Oct. 31st and kegged it on the 18th of Nov. So it has only been in the keg about a week and a half but it is no where near good yet. I'm hoping I didn't do anything wrong but I don't how as it's a pretty easy recipe to follow. I used Safale us-05 for it if that matters. It has a really tart and tangy finish and isn't very good at all in my oppinion.
Is it just still too young or did I do something wrong possibly? I plan on letting it just sit in my kegerator for another 2-3 weeks and then taste it again and hope for the best.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do have some questions to help us help you -

• What don't you like about it, specifically, beyond "tart and tangy"? Can you describe what it tastes like a little more?
  
• Did you follow Brandon's recipe, or make modifications? How much of what kind of hops did you use, and how early/late into the boil?
  
• I use US-05, Nottingham, and champagne yeast when I make cider and Graff, always with excellent results. What was the OG and FG?
  
• One other question that comes to mind, and I don't mean to sound obtuse, but do you like hard cider in the first place? (if so, do you like fairly dry cider? and/or back-sweetened?) The best beet and turnip ice cream recipe in the world is still going to taste like ass to me.

 

[Matteo57]

Mine smells a little of sulfur, a bit of spice and apple and tastes like vague apple up front with citrusy tones on the finish and boozey I guess and very bitter on the finish.
Most cider's I have had are sweeter. This one is slightly sweet at the front and then finish gets quite bitter.
I followed the recipe exactly how the OP made the recipe. I used US-05. I did not take a OG and FG unfortunately.
While Ciders are not my favorite I can drink them and they are decently pleasant, just not my favorite drink. I have had the wife, as well as some siblings taste it and all have the same feel about it.... bitter, not very sweet and "tastes off".
I believe I used Ahtanum hops.

 

[29thfloor]

Decided I would bottle this tonight. Started prepping bottles, boiled some priming sugar, started cleaning the bottling bucket... and then remembered I only have like 10 bottle caps left. Guess I'm waiting until later in the week.

 

[ed_arizona]

Brewed this up last week, took my OG after cooling down the wort and prior to adding the apple juice. My OG was 1.080, wondering if I should have taken the OG after adding the Apple Juice. I did use LME instead of DME since that was available at my LHBS. Was going to take another gravity reading tomorrow wondering where I should expect it to be at, or should I wait to take a gravity reading until next week when I approach 2 weeks of fermentation.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Brewed this up last week, took my OG after cooling down the wort and prior to adding the apple juice. My OG was 1.080, wondering if I should have taken the OG after adding the Apple Juice. I did use LME instead of DME since that was available at my LHBS. Was going to take another gravity reading tomorrow wondering where I should expect it to be at, or should I wait to take a gravity reading until next week when I approach 2 weeks of fermentation.

You took an OG measurement of a gallon of wort containing just the Crystal and LME? You're right, it should have included the juice. No big deal... just let it sit for the full two weeks before mucking with readings, then check every day for a few days to make sure it's not falling any further. There's no real point in measuring it today.

 

[goaliemanpat]

Made some up two weeks ago. This is the our first attempt at brewing anything up and we are extremely happy how it came out so far. We moved it from the primary to a secondary last night as we needed the primary for another brew and our bottles hadn't come in yet. We took a drink in the process and loved the taste. The thing we found is we really didnt taste much Apple in it. Does it seem the Apple taste comes as it ages? I saw an Apple Extract I could add before bottling so that could be a solution. I used Motts from the store so I don't know if that could have effected anything. Also when the bottles come in I plan on using Coopers Carbonation drops. Has anyone used those and if so what are your opinion on them?

 

[Guinness]

Congrats on your first brew goaliemanpat, welcome! You've found the right place for all kinds of info, as I'm sure you've seen.

The apple flavour is present, if not strong. Certainly nowhere near what a glass of apple juice has. I would definitely not recommend boosting it, you'll come to appreciate the subtlety.

Various types of apple juice don't seem to affect it a lot. I think most just pick up whatever tin cans of pure juice (no sugar added) are on sale at the time. No need for plastic bottles, they're more convenient for putting back in the fridge, but you're going to pour it all out at once, right?

I've never used the carbonation drops. I'm sure they work fine, and might simplify things a bit, but they seem to me to be an unnecessary item to need to have on hand. I've already got the dextrose on hand.

 

[knotquiteawake]

Just brewed my 3rd batch of this. I always forget just how dang easy it is! Why do I not have this in the pipeline all the time?

goaliemanpat, I've used Motts juice all three times, it works great. The first batch was bottled and delicious. The second batch was kegged and sweetened with an extra can of AJ concentrate. That batch was a little sweet for most beer drinkers tastes but a huge hit with the Smirnoff drinking lady-folk. After your first batch feel free to experiment all kinds of ways.

 

[Matteo57]

@Knot, I was just looking on here actually to see if anyone had ideas on how to sweeten this just a bit. I don't want it super sweet but just a bit sweeter would be nice i think for the wife and others that like this type of cider. So, you said a can of AJ concentrate was too sweet so you think half a can might be best? or what do you think? Just add 1/3 can and mix it together and taste then add more if needed? Any other ideas on sweetner?
Thanks!