Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[PortlandPatrick]

Gang,
I was at the store today, looking at bottled Apple Juice. What do y'all find is the best kind to use? No added sugar? There is a Mott's for Tots - totting 40% less sugar than the leading brands.
Thoughts?

I just wanted to quickly point out that Mott's for Tots is simply diluted apple juice - it contains 54% apple juice and 46% water. THAT'S how it contains less sugar.

Look for apple juice with that's labeled "100% apple juice" and you're set. Additional Vitamin C is okay (but not at all necessary, and some folks avoid it), and preservatives are a no-no, since you want your yeast to thrive!

Fresh-pressed works, too, quite nicely, but depending on who you ask, you would want to shock it with a Campden tablet for 48 hours to kill the wild yeast before brewing.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Oh, Stomp, also, make sure it says "100% apple juice" - not that it says "100% juice" with a picture of an apple on the front, because when they don't say "100% apple juice", you can be sure that there's cheaper juice mixed in. The front of the package can give one impression, yet the ingredients listed on the back can tell a much different story.

There's nothing inherently wrong with using what equates to a juice blend, but you want to make informed purchases, and if what you want is apple juice, then make sure it's apple juice.

 

[STomp]

Fresh-pressed works, too, quite nicely, but depending on who you ask, you would want to shock it with a Campden tablet for 48 hours to kill the wild yeast before brewing.

Campden tablet? Just one for the whole 5gal?

So maybe 2 nights before I brew this ******, I'll put the apple juice in the *sanitized* fermenter with the campden tab within?

Thanks for the advice! Get this man a beer!

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Campden tablet? Just one for the whole 5gal?

So maybe 2 nights before I brew this ******, I'll put the apple juice in the *sanitized* fermenter with the campden tab within?

Thanks for the advice! Get this man a beer!

Hey Stomp - sorry, it's one tablet per gallon. Again, I'm sure you'll get varying opinions on this topic, but that's the the rule as far as I'm concerned.

In the past, I've dropped a tablet in each individual gallon of cider two nights before brewing, perhaps because I'm in the habit of cleaning and sanitizing my primary bucket while I'm doing my boil. At about a nickle a piece, I may be wasting 15 cents per batch, but I'd rather err on the side of caution, you know?

 

[STomp]

Hey Stomp - sorry, it's one tablet per gallon. Again, I'm sure you'll get varying opinions on this topic, but that's the the rule as far as I'm concerned.

In the past, I've dropped a tablet in each individual gallon of cider two nights before brewing, perhaps because I'm in the habit of cleaning and sanitizing my primary bucket while I'm doing my boil. At about a nickle a piece, I may be wasting 15 cents per batch, but I'd rather err on the side of caution, you know?

:rockin: 1 per gallon = even better. I don't use a wort chiller. Instead, I put my jugs of bottled water in the fridge/freezer to bring the wort down to the ideal pitching temp. So, dropping a tab *lol :fro:* in each Mott's/Veryfine/whatever jugs I just bought is right on.

Like you, I sanitize my stuff when the wort is boiling. God, I love the smell of Iodophor!

 

[PortlandPatrick]

:rockin: 1 per gallon = even better. I don't use a wort chiller. Instead, I put my jugs of bottled water in the fridge/freezer to bring the wort down to the ideal pitching temp. So, dropping a tab *lol :fro:* in each Mott's/Veryfine/whatever jugs I just bought is right on.

Like you, I sanitize my stuff when the wort is boiling. God, I love the smell of Iodophor!

Oh, hell, to be honest, I don't even bother treating the off-the-shelf juice from the grocery store, just the sticky, crooked labeled gallons of fresh pressed I get at the orchard (and yeehaw, it's apple season right now!). It certainly can't hurt, though!

 

[ChandlerBang]

Fresh-pressed works, too, quite nicely, but depending on who you ask, you would want to shock it with a Campden tablet for 48 hours to kill the wild yeast before brewing.

So the campden tablets will kill the wild yeast but not the good stuff you pitch? How does that work? I am not familiar with Campden tablets.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

So the campden tablets will kill the wild yeast but not the good stuff you pitch? How does that work? I am not familiar with Campden tablets.

I'm not a scientist - that said, the sulfur dioxide that the tablets (sodium metabisulfite) generate kills microorganisms, but it dissipates - hence the treating in advance. It kills the wild yeast, peters out to a non-lethal level, and then you can safely pitch your desired yeast. Anecdotally, it's like StarSan - a lot of it would ruin a batch of beer, but the trace amount left in your bucket is harmless.

Folks also use the tablets to dechlorinate water, which is great for those with municipal water supplies.

Google it, there are tons of scientific, non-scientific, and of course, anecdotal results. I only know what I learned from Google and the back of the package, for better or worse.

 

[STomp]

I'm not a scientist -

The hell you aren't. You're a brewer....and that, my friend, makes you a scientist. Why do you think we have these boards?

 

[STomp]

Hey all - I am getting conflicting advice on the campden tabs. Do I add them 48, 24, or 8 hrs before?

 

[Sinkman]

From what I've seen, all you need is 24 hours. Mind you, I'm no expert. In fact, I have used apple juice just once, to make this version of graff:

4lbs Colorado pale 2-row malt
0.5 lbs caramel malt 80L
1oz flakes wheat (LHBS was out of torrefied)

4 gal unpasteurized Safeway organic apple juice

8 lb frozen sweet Oregon cherries

0.5 oz Tettnang

1pkg Safale US-05

I mashed at 154 for an hour, mashed out for ten minutes, then sparged.
My boil was about 30 minutes. I added the cherries just after flame-out when the wort cooled a bit. After cooling, I added the wort and cherries to the juice and pitched.

Two weeks later, I bottled it up. I'll have to make another batch someday without cherries to get the regular flavor, but I had twelve pounds of the things that needed to go somewhere! The graff is excellent. My wine friends love it!

 

[STomp]

I'm making this tonight. I'm wondering, would Otter Maris be a good substitute for torrified wheat?

 

[STomp]

Dear God, I came out with an OG of 1.074!

I used .4 oz Fuggle. 1 lb amber. 1 lb extra light. 4 gal Mott's.



This afternoon, I found a 22ozer *that's all I bottle in* of my Imperial Stout that I brewed for Christmas last year. Thing sports a 8.92% ABV. WOOOOOWEEEEE!! ROSCOEEEEE P. COLTRANE!!!

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Dear God, I came out with an OG of 1.074!I used .4 oz Fuggle. 1 lb amber. 1 lb extra light. 4 gal Mott's.

1.074? That sounds high, but hey, no complaints, right? I've been getting 1.06x, but perhaps we're using different brands of DME.

Did you use any Crystal?

 

[STomp]

1.074? That sounds high, but hey, no complaints, right? I've been getting 1.06x, but perhaps we're using different brands of DME.

Did you use any Crystal?

I used Northwestern Light Syrup and Northwestern Extra Light Dry.
I did you .5 lbs of 60 Crystal, sorry. I love the way 60 steeps, let me tell you.

She is fermenting right along at 74 degrees. One question: I'm getting a pungent smell out of the airlock. Is this normal?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I'm getting a pungent smell out of the airlock. Is this normal?

Kinda fart-ish? Yep, normal.

 

[kennethm]

I made a version of this with 5 gal aj 1 lbs light dme 1 lbs amber dme and threw is .5 oz goldings. O.G. was 1.058 and. F.G. was 1.000. Its about 2 months old and has a nice apple flavor with just a slight bit of malt and hops. But does have a sour or dry finnish. This is my first cidar so not sure if its supposed to be as sour/ dry at the finnish. Any thoughts?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

I made a version of this with 5 gal aj 1 lbs light dme 1 lbs amber dme and threw is .5 oz goldings. O.G. was 1.058 and. F.G. was 1.000. Its about 2 months old and has a nice apple flavor with just a slight bit of malt and hops. But does have a sour or dry finnish. This is my first cidar so not sure if its supposed to be as sour/ dry at the finnish. Any thoughts?

It'll be pretty dry if you let it drop from 1.058 to 1.000 - you can avoid that next time by either catching it before it drops that low (cold crashing, racking a few times, sulfites), or backsweetening it.

When you say it's sour, do you mean tart? Again, with the low FG it'll be dry and tart, because of the lack of sugar. I've used various juices and ciders and noticed that some start out a little sour but mellow over time. If it's "sour", then you may have experienced a little contamination, but assuming you drink it fast enough, it's likely nothing lose sleep over.

The yeast you use influences the final body and flavor, too, of course.

 

[Clifton]

The sourness could also be from you apple juice if it has added Vitamin C (ascorbic acid).

 

[HIbrew]

Just made my first batch of Graff. I followed the recipe loosely, and used carapils instead of torrified wheat, and used Centennial hops for the boil.

I didn't have any apple juice around but since it is apple season here, I went out and got 10 lbs of "drops." They were all in good shape, so I just sliced them about 3-4 mm thick and put them in the finished wort. The yeast should break down the sliced apples and should leave them as a pulpy mess that I can strain out. That's the plan anyway. Has anyone else tried something like this?

 

[STomp]

The sourness could also be from you apple juice if it has added Vitamin C (ascorbic acid).

Yeah, wow, that's something to think about.

My graff is chillin at 69 *wooohooo* degrees! Gonna bottle her on Monday - it'll be 12 days at that point.

 

[STomp]

Weeeellll, if my calculations are correct *S.G 1.074 and F.G. 1.010*, my Graffe came in at a hefty 8.4%!

...and boy does she taste good. Just bottled her tonight. Not too tart. :wiggles:

 

[HIbrew]

My Graff just got racked into secondary. I had added 10 lbs of sliced apples from a local orchard rather than AJ. As part of racking, I pureed the apples and strained/pressed off the juice. It is sitting at a gravity of 1016 right now and tastes really good. Lots of apple aroma. I think I'll probably let this ferment out for another week and *might* back sweeten if I feel like it before bottle conditioning.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

My Graff just got racked into secondary. I had added 10 lbs of sliced apples from a local orchard rather than AJ. As part of racking, I pureed the apples and strained/pressed off the juice. It is sitting at a gravity of 1016 right now and tastes really good. Lots of apple aroma. I think I'll probably let this ferment out for another week and *might* back sweeten if I feel like it before bottle conditioning.

I was going to ask you about this when you posted last weekend... so how much wort did you have before adding the sliced apples? 1 gallon? Or did you substitute the 4 gallons of juice with 4 gallons of water?

 

[Crashman06]

May this thread never die... Just made my second batch of graff. Last year I made it with unpasteurized cider from a local orchard. I was expecting some sweetness in the end product, but it came out very dry. Still had some apple aroma, though, and despite it being drier than I thought it would be, it was very good. This year, I used 4 gallons of pasteurized cider from the store, and tossed in a tablespoon of cinnamon with five minutes left in the boil. We'll see how the 2011 vintage turns out!

 

[jblizz]

What do you guys recommend as a normal serving temperature for Graff?

 

[PortlandPatrick]

What do you guys recommend as a normal serving temperature for Graff?

Good question, I wonder what other folks prefer, too. I like it straight out of the fridge.

 

[HIbrew]

Portland Patrick,

I added the 10 lbs of apples directly to the wort recipe that BrandonO specifies. I adapted aa apple wine recipe from Jack Keller's wine site. I strained the liquor when I racked it and then put all of the solids in an food processor and then into an old towel I had previously boiled. Twisted the towel up like I was wringing out water and got about 1 gallon of juice to end up with about 3.5 gallons... Worked pretty good actually.

I ended up this weekend at 4 brix again, or about 1.016 s.g. Not enough complexity for my taste so I added a gallon of AJ from the local BJ's and I'm waiting it out... So far so good!

 

[verboten]

Good question, I wonder what other folks prefer, too. I like it straight out of the fridge.

I don't like any of my stuff super cold, I keep my kegerator right around 45

 

[KCBigDog]

This stuff is a real hit. I love it, and my BMC drinker friends love it too. I think my next batch will be with 120L instead of 60L just to see the difference.