Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[flananuts]

Thanks for the note. What was your grain bill for that? How did it turn out?

 

[bhatchable]

for two gallons of wort i used 3 pounds of two row, 1 pound of crystal 20, and 1 pound of crystal 40. I just did a small stovetop all grain and overshot my initial volume of wort, i ended with 3 gallons. I put a gallon into a saucepan and vigourously boiled it down to add back in (maybe similiar to scottish brewing techniques?) Ended with two gallons of wort at 1.059 according to my notes.

 

[Guinness]

Ok, drinking some of my Graff's now, a week in a half in bottles. I am really happy with it, and if it gets better from here I'll be elated.

Brewed it pretty much as per the recipe in the OP, using 0.75oz of Hallertauer at 3.8%.

 

[Stuntman]

With age, this stuff keeps getting better! I have the last five gallons (I kept it for the house) The party about three gallons were drank.

Tonight I decided to simmer with cinnamon and sugar (powdered and brown) then add about a shot of Bacardi dark rum per serving. Got a couple of Santa mugs, and......Excellent! Warm, with fresh cinnamon/apple googness. Taste like a warm apple pie.

Christmas party the Graff made a lot of people happy!

Next taste of this nectar....It is really comming to it's own at this point. Even the 6% hops are melding. Very subtle, very high alcohol content. It drinks like a beer, but is as potent as a wine. Today was right out of the faucet, barely tastes like apple, Just refreshingly fruity.

 

[Daddymem]

I've done three brews of this using the base recipe. It is one of my regular drinks. I was wondering though, it is a slight bit on the tart side, would replacing the 60L with equal amount of honey malt swing it onto the sweet side of things you think?

 

[oparea]

I've done three brews of this using the base recipe. It is one of my regular drinks. I was wondering though, it is a slight bit on the tart side, would replacing the 60L with equal amount of honey malt swing it onto the sweet side of things you think?

Maybe double up on the ammount of crystal 120l....?

 

[psychedelic_brew]

Well I just got some of this into the carboy last night!

We'll see how it turns out, my homebrew supply shop didn't have exactly what I was looking for, so my recipe turned out to be..

.5 lb Crystal 90L
a little more than 1 oz torrified wheat
4 gallons of motts
1 gallon of water
2 lbs DME (amber and extra light)
a little less than .5 oz of cascade that were I think 8%
Nottingham yeast

So should be pretty good, albeit slightly different than the original. I can't wait!

edit: oh yeah, hydrometer read 1.065

 

[triangulum33]

After 4 weeks in the bottle, I'm really starting to like this stuff. Its different. I've never had anything like it before.

 

[Daddymem]

Maybe I'll get some 120L and try that first.

 

[cheesecake]

I went with the 120l..... i need to bottle it one of these days

 

[psychedelic_brew]

After several days in the carboy my Graff went from a sickly, sour crab apple smell to a wonderful, sweet, and almost flowery smell.

I have my full confidence in this recipe. I can't wait!

 

[MrInternet]

I used Safale-05 and the basic recipe as posted, subbing flaked wheat and 1 gallon of cranberry/raspberry.

Yeah, please... anyone thinking adding cranberry/raspberry to this recipe, DON'T. I'll admit to taking one for the team here. This fermented into something that's not completely undrinkable, but is not that pleasant. It's unpleasantly tart... not in that lip-smacking way, but in the "errgh?" and pucker face way. And there is a sour taste in there that is not the "good" kind either...

It's not a great drink... I've stuck the bottles in the corner of the basement, might try them again in 6 months to see what has transpired. Also, this never really carbed up... waiting to see if time heals that wound as well.

Anyway, make this with ALL APPLE juice... bleccch...

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

Yeah, cranberry/rasberry and beer do not sound like good flavors to mix... Maybe for straight cider it would be good though.

 

[Daddymem]

Had a party here last night and the Graff was a hit!

 

[flyweed]

for all you guys who have followed this recipe to the "T" I'd like to hear your tasting notes. What do you get when you first smell it...what flavor hits the front of your tongue? what hits the back...what is the taste after you swallow? any lingering taste? how sweet, how sour, any malty aftertaste, or hops bitterness?

I have really wanted to give this one a shot, but have been a bit gun shy, because I have tried a couple other "grain" beer type cider brews..that I Just didn't like, because well....they tasted too much like....beer.

Please give me your thoughts and opinions on this..as I may make some

Dan

 

[triangulum33]

Mine tasted very much like beer with a sour slightly apple taste when it was young. As it ages, the beer taste seems to be diminishing leaving a slightly sweet, sour, malty apple cider taste.
It has really grown on me.

 

[Recluse]

I didn't hop mine, but early on it tasted very malty with almost no apple flavor..and took forever to carb. Gradually it took on a very nice apple flavor as the malt subsided and the carbonation came up. IT wasn't nearly as sweet as I thought it would be, and in retrospect I am glad that I didn't try any backsweetening as it turned out very pleasantly crisp and tasty. A bit more like cider than beer after all..but still a very pleasant malty undertone.

I am now curious about how the hop addition would change things, but I would say if you are gunshy about a more beery flavor, leaving the hops out might work for you. Trying to decide if the next batch will be hopped or not....

 

[choadne]

i'm on the graff train. i'm drinking my first good bottle of it. i opened the real first one too early. no carb and tasted a little hoochy. that was just one week after bottling. i changed the recipe a little. adding carapils, chocolate malt and some biscuit malt. i also added some clove and cinnamon. i brewed this after thanksgiving so i was in holiday mode. it's got a slight spice after taste. i used a pound of lactose at bottling to get it sweet.

i did this for the lady cuz she hates beer besides miller or bud light. she hasn't tried it yet but this might become one of my favorites. ill continue to do variations to this since it's pretty easy.

 

[Chaos_Being]

I have the supplies for this and will be brewing tomorrow. I've tried two other failed attempts at malted cider (both ended up way too sour,) and I'm hoping that this will prove to be what I'm looking for. I've read some descriptions of "sour" in this thread though, so I want to do all I can to not end up with another sour dumper. I bought some unfiltered looking "Mott's All Natural" that is just apple juice without added vitamin C/asorbic acid (the juice I used in my previous batches had this,) and I'll be using Crystal 120. Here is a question I have though- I also have a half pound of honey malt that I was thinking of using in a honey wheat soonish. I know this is supposed to be potent stuff (I haven't used honey malt before)- do you think adding perhaps 1/4 of a pound of this to my graff would help towards my goal of a non-sour cider, or would it be too out of place? I also have a pound of lactose on hand that I could alternately use after fermentation if I think the end product is too sour, so I could go either way.

Thoughts?

 

[paint_it_black]

So I've consumed just about all of my Graff... It's pretty drinkable, but it's a bit too dry/tart for me, and overall just kind of thin. I'm not sure if this is because I did the AG version that someone (I forget who) posted, or if I just have different tastes than a lot of you guys...
But I gave it plenty of time in the fermenter, as well as in the bottles...

 

[Chaos_Being]

My graff is in the primary. I ended up not using any honey malt, as I thought it would draw the taste too far away from "cider." I did, however, boil down the 1lb of light DME until it was a nice caramelized syrup while I was steeping the crystal malt, and then added that to the main pot with the amber DME for the 30 minute boil. I'm hoping that may lend to a somewhat sweeter end-product, and if not, I'll consider using lactose.

 

[HalfPint]

My graff is in the primary. I ended up not using any honey malt, as I thought it would draw the taste too far away from "cider." I did, however, boil down the 1lb of light DME until it was a nice caramelized syrup while I was steeping the crystal malt, and then added that to the main pot with the amber DME for the 30 minute boil. I'm hoping that may lend to a somewhat sweeter end-product, and if not, I'll consider using lactose.

I think that may work b/c caramelizing that wort creates much more unfermentable sugars than doing a standard dme boil. Also, I'm not sure if you've brewed this stuff before, but if you haven't, this stuff is much sweeter than say Ed's Apfelwein b/c your using a standard ale yeast rather than a wine yeast that will drop the gravity down much more. I wouldn't back sweeten, but if you want more of a mouthful, lactose may do it for you. I find this to be thicker on the palate than Apfelwein, but still thinner than a beer of the same gravity due to the lack of proteins in the apple juice.

 

[Chaos_Being]

I haven't brewed this exact recpie before, but I've tried to do something similar before, twice - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/caramel-apple-cider-61257/ I think ultimately both of my attempts at "caramel apple cider" turned sour and undrinkable because I steeped the grains, but did not boil the resulting wort (since I was steeping in juice.) I tried adding caramelized DME on my second attempt for exactly the same reason- to hopefully leave more unfermented sugars- and I think it may have worked. At least, I could discern a carmelly background before the sour nasty taste hit

I'm hoping that this time, my boiling the aftermath of the steeped grains, the addition again of caramelized malt, and my use of a higher quality juice without added asorbic acid will result in a less tart product. I liked the idea of using a little bit of hops to balance it out too...I'm definitely impatiently waiting for the end result

 

[jim4065]

I'm sure this question has been asked many times before - but it's just too hard to wade through 70 pages right now. Apfelwein can be fermented with almost no headspace - maybe because of the wine yeast? Is this Graff the same or should I ferment 5 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy?

Side note: what's a "Graff"? I can't find the word in the Wiki or my dictionary.

 

[Daddymem]

She can ferment pretty vigorously. Last one was 5 gallons in 6 gallon Better Bottle and it still needed a blowoff-that was Nottingham.

I believe the name came from Stephen King's Dark Tower.

 

[hroth521]

I've got a great thick mat of stuff that appeared on top of my graff within 24 hours of initiating fermentation (presoaked the nottingham yeast in 2 -3 cups cider). Should I just leave it alone, break it up, skim it off?

Thanks

 

[Rowdy]

just leave it its called krausen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krausen
it is good sign

 

[hroth521]

just leave it its called krausen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krausen
it is good sign

Thanks. I'll leave it alone. I brewed a few extract brews about 20 years ago and am now exploring ciders. This "graff" is kind of a hybrid and steeping grains is kind of new for me.

 

[hilohwn]

All my fermentors are being used and was wondering who made a one gallon batch, using what recipe and the results..
thanks..
oh yeah i'm sure someone posted, but i read through 20pages and didn't find it.

 

[jcobbs]

All my fermentors are being used and was wondering who made a one gallon batch, using what recipe and the results..
thanks..
oh yeah i'm sure someone posted, but i read through 20pages and didn't find it.

Back when I first started homebrewing, I put a pound of extra light DME in a gallon of apple juice and pitched a pack of ale yeast (no hops). That's pretty much stretching the definition of graff, but it sure made a tasty brew!