Gotta say, I really prefer AG brewing!

[BrewN00b]

Brewed my second AG today; an English Mild with a recipe all my own, so I don't quite know how it will turn out. Yes, AG takes longer, but damn if it isn't a pure labor of love, especially since I can tweak everything just the way I want.

I am pleased to say that I am hitting my 75% efficiency dead on, but I am still running into issues where it takes too long to boil down to my target volume (1hr boil took almost 2 hours), and cooling it down is still taking too long. I don't know how the masters get it done. I hope that long boil won't totally caramelize my resulting in a too sweet, to high FG.

Anyways, I'm all jacked on caffeine, and adrenaline from my hustle and bustle, but I will refrain from chatter. Take a look at my recipe though and tell me what you think!


Type: All Grain
Date: 6/30/2010
Batch Size: 3.00 gal
Brewer: Brewn00b
Boil Size: ~5.5 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 77.78 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
0.25 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 5.56 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5.56 %
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 16.7 IBU -Ended up being WAY longer!
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 7.4 IBU -Put in at flameout to hopefully balance out the long EKG boil
0.60 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs British Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1335) Yeast-Ale

Est Original Gravity: 1.039 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.038 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.79 %
Bitterness: 24.1 IBU Calories: 168 cal/pint
Est Color: 20.2 SRM Color: Way darker than I thought! Pics don't do just to it's darkness.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

wow, 5.5 gal boil for a 3 gal batch seems way way high. My boiloff rate is slightly less than 1 gallon per hour. I try to target 7 gallons in the kettle to end up with 6 post boil, 5.5 in the carboy, and 5 in the keg (acounting for trub and equipment losses)

 

[BrewN00b]

wow, 5.5 gal boil for a 3 gal batch seems way way high. My boiloff rate is slightly less than 1 gallon per hour. I try to target 7 gallons in the kettle to end up with 6 post boil, 5.5 in the carboy, and 5 in the keg (acounting for trub and equipment losses)

I figured it high, but I wanted to make sure I got the most out of the grains. I suppose I did, but at what cost? At what cost?

 

[pcollins]

At what cost? That's for you to decide. You'll end up with beer no matter what so I wouldn't worry about that end of things.

Your calculations do seem a little off regarding the boil off rate. I also count on about a gallon per hour and work with about the same formula that strat-thru-marshall works with: 7-6-5.5-5. That's almost exactly how I figure it.

 

[BA_from_GA]

i start with an 8.5 gal boil and end up with just at 5.5 gal. no clue how i get a 2 gal per hr boil off... but i do... really screwed me up on the first few brews.

also, i'm only about 10 brews into AG, and i'm with you... i LOVE it... buying grain and hops in bulk has cut my cost (i'm a cheap-o) to about 10 bucks for a standard gravity batch.

And my last brew i started at 7:30 and was done by 11. that's just barely more time than my extract brews were taking, and i'm getting way better beer, and astronomically better attenuation now (most of my extract batches were averaging around 1.016 FG, now i'm consisntently around 1.010.)

 

[BrewN00b]

i start with an 8.5 gal boil and end up with just at 5.5 gal. no clue how i get a 2 gal per hr boil off... but i do... really screwed me up on the first few brews.

also, i'm only about 10 brews into AG, and i'm with you... i LOVE it... buying grain and hops in bulk has cut my cost (i'm a cheap-o) to about 10 bucks for a standard gravity batch.

And my last brew i started at 7:30 and was done by 11. that's just barely more time than my extract brews were taking, and i'm getting way better beer, and astronomically better attenuation now (most of my extract batches were averaging around 1.016 FG, now i'm consisntently around 1.010.)

Wow, that is some efficiency you have there! I still can not get a batch done in less than 5 hours, I just can't.

 

[JNye]

might be a bitter now. but yeah AG rules.
your time will decrease as you learn.

 

[vitoma]

I've been a lot happier with my beers since I've moved to AG.

 

[BrewN00b]

might be a bitter now. but yeah AG rules.
your time will decrease as you learn.

I'm more afraid of the overwhelming flavor of the chocolate malt. Smells like a burnt tree stump right now, lol.

 

[ksbrain]

I also love AG! I did a half dozen or so extract batches before making the jump. Since then I've done a few here and there, and it's just not the same. Mixing in pre-mashed concentrated wort can't compare to making your own wort. Even though most of what I make could be made with extract, I just love to completely control the process.

 

[lumpher]

I'm more afraid of the overwhelming flavor of the chocolate malt. Smells like a burnt tree stump right now, lol.

you might have to let it age and attenuate some of the burnt wood out. as far as the efficiency, yep, for 3 gallons, you should be looking at about 4-4.1 gallons of wort. i agree about all-grain. it rocks

 

[pearlbeer]

BrewNoob - I too brew in Austin, TX.

Regarding the length of time it takes to chill the wort, brewing in Austin in the summer is hot. Getting the wort down below 80 is particurally hard - the air temps are high, and the city water just isn't that cold.

I use a pre chiller - basically another wort chiller shoved in a bath of ice water. You run the chill water from the hose, through the pre chiller, into the wort chiller - the chill water drops from about 75d to 45d this way.

I chill 5g of wort in 15mins.

 

[iijakii]

I never did an extract kit, I started out with a partial mash. I gotta say though, moving to AG was the tits. It's really not ANY harder/difficult, and I've read two books, and about every thread on a few different forums. It's so interesting and I love the tweaking and have just been soaking more knowledge than my grain does water

AG is easy, to any of you extracts out there: give it a shot. Don't let the extra equipment get in the way, BIAB is just as good as any traditional offering.

 

[Walker]

regarding boil off rates: everyone's is different. it depends on the heat source and kettle being used.

When I brewed on the stove, I boiled off about 3 quarts over the course of an hour.

My first (cheap-o) propane burner boiled off about 1 gallon per hour if I opened it up all the way.

My (also cheap-o) second burner would boil of 6 quarts per hour opened all the way.

My new electric kettle will boil off damn near 2 gallons per hour if I run the 5500W element at full strength.

 

[maida7]

regarding boil off rates: everyone's is different. it depends on the heat source and kettle being used.

When I brewed on the stove, I boiled off about 3 quarts over the course of an hour.

My first (cheap-o) propane burner boiled off about 1 gallon per hour if I opened it up all the way.

My (also cheap-o) second burner would boil of 6 quarts per hour opened all the way.

My new electric kettle will boil off damn near 2 gallons per hour if I run the 5500W element at full strength.

Perhaps your boiling to hard. All you need is to have the liquid turning over in the pot so it is exposed to the air and the volatile gasses can escape. You don't need it to be jumping up and down like a gyser.

Too much heat can have a negative effect. It can caramelize the wort and give you some different flavors. Your also wasting energy.

 

[Walker]

Yeah, I know I could dial it back to a lower boil strength.

I used to do that with the propane burners but got myself in trouble a couple of times by backing it off too much and ending up with too much beer at the end. Diluted product.

I have not noticed any flavor issues with the hard boils at all, so I let it run fully open now. If I boil off too much, I add water at the end.

So, I am better able to estimate my boil off by running it fully open than by trying to dial in a lower strength boil with a knob.

 

[brettwasbtd]

I am still dialing in my boil off rate, but it seems to be about 1.6 gallons per hour. Did my second AG the other day and I got the evaporation correct, but didnt account for the amount I would lose to all those hops/trub in the bottom and had to top off anyways... Its a learning process.

I also am working on getting this down to closer to 4 hours. I was starting to weigh out my hops and realized that I shouldnt be doing that until I am sitting waiting to mash, might as well get that strike water to temp first!

 

[maida7]

Yeah, I know I could dial it back to a lower boil strength.

I used to do that with the propane burners but got myself in trouble a couple of times by backing it off too much and ending up with too much beer at the end. Diluted product.

I have not noticed any flavor issues with the hard boils at all, so I let it run fully open now. If I boil off too much, I add water at the end.

So, I am better able to estimate my boil off by running it fully open than by trying to dial in a lower strength boil with a knob.

What I try to do is boil with just enough heat to keep the liquid moving in the pot. I have figured out at that heat, I boil off X amount per hour. So knowing my boil off I can figure how much liquid I should have pre-boil, to make whatever batch size I want. When I sparge I only fill my kettle to my calculated pre-boil amount. Consistency is key but once you have your system worked out you should hit your post boil volumes (and gravity) fairly consistently. Software is a huge help in doing the math. I use beersmith and once you enter the boil off and loss numbers it will do all the work for you. And if you change the length of boil or the batch size, beersmith will recalculate the sparge & pre-boil volumes so there are no screw ups.

 

[Walker]

I also am working on getting this down to closer to 4 hours. I was starting to weigh out my hops and realized that I shouldnt be doing that until I am sitting waiting to mash, might as well get that strike water to temp first!

I've been doing AG for the past 3 or 4 years. 4 hours is definitely doable, but is about as fast as I can get done. I had one batch, one time, that I finished in under 4 hours, but it typically takes me 4 or 4.5 hours for the whole thing.

 

[Walker]

Software is a huge help in doing the math. I use beersmith and once you enter the boil off and loss numbers it will do all the work for you. And if you change the length of boil or the batch size, beersmith will recalculate the sparge & pre-boil volumes so there are no screw ups.

I actually created my own spreadsheet a few years ago to do all the volume and temp calculations for me. It helped me immensely.

The one factor that always tripped it up was the boil off. One day I might have the burner set where it is boiling off 3 quarts per hour, one day it might boil off 4 quarts per hour. It doesn't take much difference for that, certainly not something I can visibly see based on the movement of wort in the kettle.

At any rate.... we all do things our own way. Part of the fun of this.

 

[brewagentjay]

I agree I love AG.......It does take longer for a brew day and I find it takes longer for the beer to mature.........Most of my extract batches tasted great by week 4.......

Most of my AG stuff starts to taste great by week 7 to 8..........Perhaps when I move to kegging that will change a bit.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Boil off rate and all that other mumbo jumbo is unimportant. You get what you get until you dial in your own method and system. You are the one in control, and you will get to change your method according to your own set up.

GREAT ain't it!?

 

[maida7]

At any rate.... we all do things our own way. Part of the fun of this.

Cheers, brother!

 

[balazs]

Boil off rate and all that other mumbo jumbo is unimportant. You get what you get until you dial in your own method and system. You are the one in control, and you will get to change your method according to your own set up.

GREAT ain't it!?

Amen to that!!!!

 

[Chuck_Swillery]

I agree 100%. I've only put down 2 batches of AG in my career but the flavor is unbeatable in my opinon. More control, everthing.

 

[motobrewer]

AG brewing is such a long day. i'm having a hard time finding the time for it lately

extract batches, 2 hours max until oxyclean is pretty nice.

 

[djt17]

AG brewing is such a long day. i'm having a hard time finding the time for it lately

extract batches, 2 hours max until oxyclean is pretty nice.

That was my position too for a long time; until I started steeping grains. It's not much more time from steeping w/extract to AG.