Got a keg, riddled with guilt...

[olllllo]

I need to track down pepsi, apparently I bought a lot of cornie kegs from a guy that stole them. (Sticker on the keg says so)

Corny kegs were the container of choice for the beverage industry, they no longer are. A majority of that stock was sold to third parties and put on the open market.

If at some point the Sankey Keg is no longer the preferred container for the Beer market, a similar thing may happen. I wouldn't count on that happening soon.

The obvious analogy though is the Golden Gate Keg. Those are available on the retail and secondary market.

If you see a Hamms Golden Gate keg on eBay, I guarantee that Pabst via Hamms won't ask for it back.

 

[conpewter]

True, I just think it sucks that if you have a keg it is assumed that you stole it, when kegs are decommissioned and are sold off. I have kegs that I've made into kettles, they are pretty crappy looking and I was told they are legal (as with the cornie kegs). I don't know for sure they are legit, but I try to trust people until that trust is betrayed.

 

[COLObrewer]

I don't see alot of distributors or breweries clamoring to get their kegs back, maybe that's why resourcefull homebrewers started to use them in the first place? If it were a big deal to anyone, they wouldn't be so accessible, ya think?

 

[Brewmoor]

If at some point the Sankey Keg is no longer the preferred container for the Beer market, a similar thing may happen. I wouldn't count on that happening soon.

Might be sooner then we think

http://www.onewaykeg.com/main.php

I found mine on craigslist. Guy had a posting that he buys kegs. I wrote him I would buy them from him for $10 more then he was paying. Turns out he is a liquor store owner. He sells keg shells to people.

He could only sell me non miller/coors kegs. Not sure why he could sell me other ones. I don't feel guilty. I am sure he knows the rules and knows the system. If he can buy and sell kegs I should not worry about it. As far as I am concerned. I legitimately purchased a keg from a retailer.

 

[Synovia]

In your prior post, you talked about returning it to the distributor,
The distributor does not own the keg. The brewery owns the keg.

In cases where the state regulates keg deposits, the point of sale may not accept the keg without receipt.

If you knowingly put yourself in a position to get this keg in this manner, it is, in fact, unethical.

If you had a keg from a small brewery, they would take it back in a heartbeat.

Again, its a simple process. I give a deposit. I am promised that if I return the keg, I will get my deposit back. If they will not give me my deposit back, then they are transferring ownership of the keg to me by refusing to honor the conditions that were agreed upon.

 

[Munsoned]

Again, its a simple process. I give a deposit. I am promised that if I return the keg, I will get my deposit back. If they will not give me my deposit back, then they are transferring ownership of the keg to me by refusing to honor the conditions that were agreed upon.

The distributor/liqour store does not have ownership to transfer. The proper course of action under the law in most states is to sue for breach of contract, replevin, or under another state-specific statute (to get your deposit back), or to even request that the police investigate the theft of your deposit.

If the brewery is the owner, and the brewery assertively abandon's their property by informing you that they do not want the keg back, then that's one thing. "Trading" deposits for merchandise is another.

 

[Synovia]

The distributor/liqour store does not have ownership to transfer. The proper course of action under the law in most states is to sue for breach of contract, replevin, or under another state-specific statute (to get your deposit back), or to even request that the police investigate the theft of your deposit.

If the brewery is the owner, and the brewery assertively abandon's their property by informing you that they do not want the keg back, then that's one thing. "Trading" deposits for merchandise is another.

Again, the distributor has a contract with the brewery. I do not. I have a contract with the distributor. The distributor acts as an agent for the brewery.

 

[sd38]

If the big brewerys are keeping the deposits low to keep small brewerys from operating whats wrong with keeping the big brewerys keg?Its like being a modern day Robin Hood.

 

[olllllo]

Again, the distributor has a contract with the brewery. I do not. I have a contract with the distributor. The distributor acts as an agent for the brewery.

This makes no legal difference in terms of your responsibility.

Even if it did, it would be completely unethical.

Knowingly paying $20 or something that costs the owner $130 that is not recoverable by the brewery because of some vestige of prohibition is not ethical.

Your argument wouldn't hold on probrewer and it won't here.

Again. you can do what you like, but I won't let such foolish notions stand unopposed on this board.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Again, the distributor has a contract with the brewery. I do not. I have a contract with the distributor. The distributor acts as an agent for the brewery.

Absolutely.

 

[Synovia]

This makes no legal difference in terms of your responsibility.

Even if it did, it would be completely unethical.

Knowingly paying $20 or something that costs the owner $130 that is not recoverable by the brewery because of some vestige of prohibition is not ethical.

Your argument wouldn't hold on probrewer and it won't here.

The fact that probrewer wouldn't agree with me is irrelevant.

The problem is that Brewers aren't keeping their distributors in check. Maybe the issue is a legislative one, but its one the breweries need to handle.

The distributor is directly acting as an agent for the brewery.

 

[olllllo]

Stolen kegs have beer makers feeling tapped out

Craft brewers are anxious to solve the theft problem because as much as 40 percent of their business is tied up in keg sales, triple the industry average, said Ken Grossman, founder and owner of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.

I don't care what people do.
My objections is that they post outright misinformation such as:

1. A deposit is a sale. They have my $30, so I bought it.
   Average $150 replacement fee. $30 doesn't begin to cover it.
2. It doesn't hurt breweries.
   40% of their business tied up in kegs, with 3% losses. I wouldn't want to give that money up. Would you?
3. It doesn't hurt the craft breweries if you only steal BMC kegs.
   It can take months to replace a keg. Shortages hurt everyone. Shortages drive up prices. Higher costs hurt smaller craft breweries disproportionately. In some cases shortages make kegs unavailable to smaller breweries for periods of time because kegs are provided to large volume contracts first.
   
4. It's not that big of a problem.
   300,000 kegs lost per year is a sizable problem that will get worse if SS prices remain high.
5. They (the brewery) should just raise the price of the deposit.
   It most cases, the deposit is a balance of the interests of the brewery, the distributor and sometimes the state. The brewery is not able to do this on their own.

This MSNBC story dispels these myths.


Want a smaller breweries opinion? How about The Bruery?
http://bruery.blogspot.com/2007/06/kegs.html

One solution is higher keg deposits. Current deposit amounts in California are about $15 per keg, about 10% of the cost of a replacement keg. This is not high enough to thwart theft, but charging $50 or even $100 is impractical when other brewers continue charging a nominal amount. Deposit fees are generally set by the big guys, as retailers don't see why craft brewers can charge $50 keg deposits while Budweiser is charging only $15 for the same keg. As a large multinational corporation, Budweiser and other large brewers are better able to absorb the cost than the local craft brewer. Many retailers are just concerned with cost, and charging a higher keg deposit makes craft beer a less profitable prospect as it ties up their cash.

Again. I don't care what people do as long as they don't use this board to substitute their opinions for facts in an attempt to justify their behavior.

 

[olllllo]

The fact that probrewer wouldn't agree with me is irrelevant.

The problem is that Brewers aren't keeping their distributors in check. Maybe the issue is a legislative one, but its one the breweries need to handle.

The distributor is directly acting as an agent for the brewery.

As a Chicagoan, you should know that the distributors wield more power than the breweries do. Why do you think Bells pulled completely out of your state?

 

[Synovia]

Stolen kegs have beer makers feeling tapped out

I don't care what people do.
My objections is that they post outright misinformation such as:

1. A deposit is a sale. They have my $30, so I bought it.
   Average $150 replacement fee. $30 doesn't begin to cover it.
2. It doesn't hurt breweries.
   40% of their business tied up in kegs, with 3% losses. I wouldn't want to give that money up. Would you?
3. It doesn't hurt the craft breweries if you only steal BMC kegs.
   It can take months to replace a keg. Shortages hurt everyone. Shortages drive up prices. Higher costs hurt smaller craft breweries disproportionately. In some cases shortages make kegs unavailable to smaller breweries for periods of time because kegs are provided to large volume contracts first.
   
4. It's not that big of a problem.
   300,000 kegs lost per year is a sizable problem that will get worse if SS prices remain high.
5. They (the brewery) should just raise the price of the deposit.
   It most cases, the deposit is a balance of the interests of the brewery, the distributor and sometimes the state. The brewery is not able to do this on their own.

This MSNBC story dispels these myths.

Then the breweries should do something about it.

If they want their keg back, they should make sure that the consumer can return it.


Also, I don't see where I've made any of those claims you seem to be trying to refute.

 

[Synovia]

As a Chicagoan, you should know that the distributors wield more power than the breweries do. Why do you think Bells pulled completely out of your state?

Then the breweries should do something about that. Either charge the distributors more, or allow consumers to return kegs directly to them. I've tried. They tell you to screw off.

 

[olllllo]

You should probably read before you reach that conclusion.

 

[Synovia]

You should probably read before you reach that conclusion.

Which conclusion specifically?

 

[springer]

Then the breweries should do something about that. Either charge the distributors more, or allow consumers to return kegs directly to them. I've tried. They tell you to screw off.

Here the state sets the deposit.

 

[Synovia]

Here the state sets the deposit.

Wonderful. They can vote just like everyone else. Or bribe their local mayor, just like everyone else here does.


Again, if they want the kegs back, they just gotta let us return em. I've tried.

 

[COLObrewer]

I like boysenberry syrup. . . .

 

[BarleyWater]

Then the breweries should do something about that. Either charge the distributors more, or allow consumers to return kegs directly to them. I've tried. They tell you to screw off.

I guarantee that if someone were to walk into our brewery with a keg and say hey I have this keg of yours, you want it back. We would say hell yes, and probably offer the guy a beer, I can't imagine any brewery would say "screw off" if you were trying to return their property.

We are having a problem right now at our brewery with kegs coming up missing, most of them missing from bars I actually spent some of today labeling our kegs more permanently while my boss was ordering a replacement pallet. Of course we don't have a lot of kegs go missing from the liquor stores because we charge the actual cost of the keg for deposit, we were just losing too much money.

 

[Synovia]

I guarantee that if someone were to walk into our brewery with a keg and say hey I have this keg of yours, you want it back. We would say hell yes, and probably offer the guy a beer, I can't imagine any brewery would say "screw off" if you were trying to return their property.

I called Goose Island a while back, and they refused to take one.

We are having a problem right now at our brewery with kegs coming up missing, most of them missing from bars I actually spent some of today labeling our kegs more permanently while my boss was ordering a replacement pallet. Of course we don't have a lot of kegs go missing from the liquor stores because we charge the actual cost of the keg for deposit, we were just losing too much money.

From what I've heard from a couple bar tenders around here, is that a lot of breweries/distributors won't give a deposit back if the keg has been gone longer than XX days. If its a small bar, a keg being on tap for a long time isn't uncommon, especially if its craft. So the distributor refuses to refund the deposit, and the bar chucks the keg.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I guarantee that if someone were to walk into our brewery with a keg and say hey I have this keg of yours, you want it back. We would say hell yes, and probably offer the guy a beer, I can't imagine any brewery would say "screw off" if you were trying to return their property.

We are having a problem right now at our brewery with kegs coming up missing, most of them missing from bars I actually spent some of today labeling our kegs more permanently while my boss was ordering a replacement pallet. Of course we don't have a lot of kegs go missing from the liquor stores because we charge the actual cost of the keg for deposit, we were just losing too much money.

Have you guys considered the proximity chips? i have read that those will become the new trend.

 

[Dogslovebeer]

Have you guys considered the proximity chips? i have read that those will become the new trend.

Heres an article about this
http://www.rfidnews.org/2009/05/18/brewery-taps-fluensee-for-keg-tracking

"
Brewery taps Fluensee for keg tracking

Monday, May 18, 2009 in News

Fluensee, a provider of RFID-enabled asset-tracking and supply chain management solutions, has been selected by the Colorado-based New Belgium Brewing Company to provide a system to track, manage, and improve the utilization of its keg fleet. The brewer - perhaps best known for its flagship Fat Tire beer - will deploy Fluensee’s AssetTrack software application and accompanying passive RFID technology to provide visibilty throughout its supply chain.

At the New Belgium brewery, passive RFID readers have been installed along the fill line. As tagged beer kegs pass along the line, the readers collect data for the AssetTrack system, providing insight into which kegs are being filled most often and with what type of beer. This information should help the brewer increase the efficiency of keg use.

“Using Fluensee’s AssetTrack solution and RFID technology helps us automate our keg management process so that we know where our kegs are, how frequently they’re being used and how quickly they are being returned,” says the fittingly named Brendan Beers, packaging materials purchaser for New Belgium Brewing. “Our vision is that RFID will streamline keg movement to our customer sites and throughout our supply chain.”

When the RFID system is fully adopted, New Belgium expects to collect a wide range of supply chain information, including current keg location and status, fill-to-fill cycle time for each keg, the length of time kegs spend at distributors, and the keg return rates of each distributor. [end]

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . seriously, I think it is the mixture of tart and sweet . . . .

 

[springer]

Wonderful. They can vote just like everyone else. Or bribe their local mayor, just like everyone else here does.


Again, if they want the kegs back, they just gotta let us return em. I've tried.

ohh I know I tried to return a AB keg to the local distributor Dutchess beer I picked up the almost new keg on clean up from a neighbor who put it out to the curb. I was looked at like I had two heads by both the receptionist and the dock manager who said flat out we wont take with no paper work . I even said I didnt want the deposit I ended up stating that I knew the owners as his son is one of my insureds and I left at the dock . Man the dock manager wasn't pleased. Guess its a pain to put an unaccounted or written off keg back into the system.

Was a pretty keg not a scratch on her ..... God I need some help to even think like that

 

[Brewmoor]

Heres an article about this
http://www.rfidnews.org/2009/05/18/brewery-taps-fluensee-for-keg-tracking

"
Brewery taps Fluensee for keg tracking

Monday, May 18, 2009 in News

Fluensee, a provider of RFID-enabled asset-tracking and supply chain management solutions, has been selected by the Colorado-based New Belgium Brewing Company to provide a system to track, manage, and improve the utilization of its keg fleet. The brewer - perhaps best known for its flagship Fat Tire beer - will deploy Fluensee’s AssetTrack software application and accompanying passive RFID technology to provide visibilty throughout its supply chain.

At the New Belgium brewery, passive RFID readers have been installed along the fill line. As tagged beer kegs pass along the line, the readers collect data for the AssetTrack system, providing insight into which kegs are being filled most often and with what type of beer. This information should help the brewer increase the efficiency of keg use.

“Using Fluensee’s AssetTrack solution and RFID technology helps us automate our keg management process so that we know where our kegs are, how frequently they’re being used and how quickly they are being returned,” says the fittingly named Brendan Beers, packaging materials purchaser for New Belgium Brewing. “Our vision is that RFID will streamline keg movement to our customer sites and throughout our supply chain.”

When the RFID system is fully adopted, New Belgium expects to collect a wide range of supply chain information, including current keg location and status, fill-to-fill cycle time for each keg, the length of time kegs spend at distributors, and the keg return rates of each distributor. [end]

Maybe that is why the liquer store owner could not sell me miller/coors kegs. New Belgium is distributed by Coors. Is miller/coors doing this also?

On another note. Why the hell are they still using SS kegs. There are better ways to distribute that would cost less. Like the onewaykegs I posted earlier. Especially for import beers. It takes months for them to get back kegs. If they made them one use and recyclable we would not be having this conversation.

 

[olllllo]

Again, its a simple process. I give a deposit. I am promised that if I return the keg, I will get my deposit back. If they will not give me my deposit back, then they are transferring ownership of the keg to me by refusing to honor the conditions that were agreed upon.

So did you do this ^^^ ?
This sounds like you planned on not giving it back?

Did you knowingly put yourself in a position to not be able to return it?

Did you take advantage of the situation?

It's my opinion that that would be unethical.

I don't think the method of keg acquisition is legit.

 

[Synovia]

So did you do this ^^^ ?
This sounds like you planned on not giving it back?

Did you knowingly put yourself in a position to not be able to return it?

Did you take advantage of the situation?

It's my opinion that that would be unethical.

I don't think the method of keg acquisition is legit.

Again, what do you want me to do with a keg that the brewery and distributor refuse to take back? Seriously.

 

[olllllo]

ohh I know I tried to return a AB keg to the local distributor Dutchess beer I picked up the almost new keg on clean up from a neighbor who put it out to the curb. I was looked at like I had two heads by both the receptionist and the dock manager who said flat out we wont take with no paper work . I even said I didnt want the deposit I ended up stating that I knew the owners as his son is one of my insureds and I left at the dock . Man the dock manager wasn't pleased. Guess its a pain to put an unaccounted or written off keg back into the system.

Was a pretty keg not a scratch on her ..... God I need some help to even think like that

Duchesse isn't owned by Inbev, I don't think, so this is a circumstance where the distro is not acting on the breweries behalf. This is not the same as not taking a local keg back to a local brewery.