Going strong

[Redlantern]

Ran first IPA completely free of influence from other recipes - I went with my gut. This is only my third batch, but being the brave idiot I am, I gave it a go.

The first two batches (with a not so great borrowed recipe) went OK. The first one came with the grains not milled and I had to do it with a rolling pin (lots of tannins in that one let me tell you). Proper milled grains a must. Still drank it, I paid for it and it was my first born

Second batch I realized why the amount of crystal needs to be kept down to the 5% range. The sweetness got in the way of the hops and made me sad.

Both processes went well, but it was time for a change. My gamble/recipe, but had some friends help with the process to ensure I did everything right I planned to do.

So her we go -

10 lbs 2-row
2 lbs German Vienna
1 lb Munich
12 oz crystal 60L
8 oz carafoam

.5 oz chinook at 60 min
.5 chinook at 30 min
.5 chinook at 20 min
.5 chinook at 15 min

1/2 wirfloc tablet at 10 min

1 oz amarillo at 10 min
1 oz cascade at 8 min
1 oz cascade at 5 min
1 oz citra at 2 min
1 oz citra at 1 min

1 oz amarillo in whirlpool, 20 min

Omega Labs DIPA yeast (started 48 hrs in advance)

Cooled wort tasted amazing (tradition to sample)
Final boil volume at 6.2 gal.
OG at 1.071

Finished run Saturday and at last check today, my airlock is still bubbling away.

I am so hooked.

If this works, I will work this recipe to make it a wicked double.

 

[BigMack]

Is there a reason for the additions that are 1 and 3 minutes apart? I can't imagine adding Citra at 1 minutes and at 2 minutes would make any noticeable difference over adding both ounces at 1 minute. Same with the Cascade at 8 and 5 minutes. I'm just curious as to the thought behind that. I see a ton of hop schedules that seem, to me, to be overly complex.

 

[Redlantern]

Is there a reason for the additions that are 1 and 3 minutes apart? I can't imagine adding Citra at 1 minutes and at 2 minutes would make any noticeable difference over adding both ounces at 1 minute. Same with the Cascade at 8 and 5 minutes. I'm just curious as to the thought behind that. I see a ton of hop schedules that seem, to me, to be overly complex.

Because my boil volume was a little too high for an 8 gallon pot (6.9 gal) and the hops seem to burp pretty actively when first put in -

so first to keep the expulsions from being too high and also, in a way, because it is fun...

 

[BigMack]

Hey, more power to you if you like doing it.

Hope the recipe turns out well

 

[Redlantern]

share an oatmeal stout recipe? I need to make one of those next.

I see that is in your Primary.

 

[BigMack]

Oatmeal Stout

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: S-04
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 26.1
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 38.6 SRM
Primary Fermentation : 2 Weeks at 68 Degrees

Grain Bill
-8.75 # Maris Otter
-1.5 # Flaked Oats
-1 # Chocolate Malt
-8 oz. Crystal 120L
-8 oz. Roasted Barley

Hop Schedule
-1.5 oz. EKG (60 min)
-.5 oz. EKG (5 min)

Single Infusion Mash at 156 for 60 minutes

Nothing too fancy, but it turns out great. This has been one of my most popular brews for all types of beer drinkers. I also know Yooper's Oatmeal Stout is supposed to be great, but I haven't brewed that one.

 

[Redlantern]

Awesome. Thank you.

 

[Spartan300man]

Is there a reason for the additions that are 1 and 3 minutes apart? I can't imagine adding Citra at 1 minutes and at 2 minutes would make any noticeable difference over adding both ounces at 1 minute. Same with the Cascade at 8 and 5 minutes. I'm just curious as to the thought behind that. I see a ton of hop schedules that seem, to me, to be overly complex.

I've noticed this practice lately and the bottom line advice I am adopting is that you need to decide if they are for bittering, or for hops flavor/aroma. If they are for bittering, use them for the full 60 minute boil and get the full effect of the AAs. If they are for aroma/flavor, then do that at the end of the boil per the recipe. The addition of other hops at anything over 15-20 minutes of boil time seems to be a waste. You aren't getting the flavor, and you aren't getting the full bittering of the 60 minutes, so why not eliminate them and save money, and have hops left over for actual flavor and aroma? You can use high AA hops at the beginning of the boil, and then the bittering is done. All the remaining hops can be optimized for aroma and flavor at the end of the boil. Any reasons why this concept isn't a 'best practice"?

 

[Redlantern]

Good learning point. Good question. I will have to research that more. Sounds like in some cases, we could be adding hops for the sake of adding hops. That is wasteful. Since I am just learning and supplies do cost money, it is a good thing to understand quickly.

 

[specharka]

Those are all very high alpha acid hops. I wouldn't be surprised if your beer comes out tasting like a forest.

If you're looking to maximize alpha acid utilization, you can change the chemistry of your water by adding some gypsum (CaSO4). One five ounce container of gypsum will last you years and costs about that of an ounce of hops.

I'm fermenting a Belgian DIPA right now that used a one-hop boil addition at 60 min, and it's still going to come out well over 60 IBUs. Save the high AAU hops for a whirlpool or dry hopping schedule.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

+1 on the strange hop schedule and the over use of high AA hops. Seems like overkill and might put a new meaning the the "dank" description. Did you use a brewing program at all?

Personally I would say the vienna and munich would be enough for specialty malts and the crystal 60 might also be unnecessary. I have a pale Ale that's just maris otter, vienna, and carapils and it's awesome.

 

[Redlantern]

specharka

So this is heavy handed then?

Something like an ounce of Chinook (love Chinook) at 60 then something like Cascade (5.50%) and Wilamette (5.50%) at the end of the boil? Citra as dry hop?

Not saying that is perfect, but better direction? Just want to see if I get what you are saying

 

[Redlantern]

+1 on the strange hop schedule and the over use of high AA hops. Seems like overkill and might put a new meaning the the "dank" description. Did you use a brewing program at all?

Personally I would say the vienna and munich would be enough for specialty malts and the crystal 60 might also be unnecessary. I have a pale Ale that's just maris otter, vienna, and carapils and it's awesome.

I used Brewsmith and the numbers looked good, but that does not mean much - I guess you can drop a lot of things into the mix and get good numbers.

Looking to find out about the low alpha hops and which one to pick for pales and IPA's.

As far as the grains - the Vienna and Munich show up as base malts in a lot of sites where I have looked. Misnomer of sorts?

I see where going with Chinook at 60, then an ounce of Cascade and an ounce of Willamette in the last minutes still posts good numbers, but is that what everyone is talking about?

 

[specharka]

Vienna and Munich ARE base malts. As in, whenever given the chance, they have the diastatic power available to convert 100% of their starches into soluble sugars. They are just not well suited in large amounts to beer styles that are typically dry.

As for the hops, you can use whatever variety you like, but stick to 1 or 2 boil additions for bitterness. Within 10 minutes, ALL of the volatile aromatics will boil off from the hops, and after that it's just alpha acid utilization and isomerization. So in essence a complicated hop schedule is very wasteful. Whirlpooling/hopstanding gives a rounder hop character, and dry hopping will provide aromatics only. For instance, my last brew used a 1-3-4 hop schedule (1 oz boil, 3 oz hopstand, 4 oz dry hop).

My recommendation would be to experiment with SMaSH brewing (Single Malt and Single Hop) so you can pick up on the subtleties of the grains and hops. When in doubt, keep it simple.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

Oops you are right they are base malts. I typically use them more like a specialty malt though but maybe that's just me.

High AA hops added late are fine but I would say this recipe is a little overdone. The idea is good though, just keep on learning and tweaking.

 

[Redlantern]

Vienna and Munich ARE base malts. As in, whenever given the chance, they have the diastatic power available to convert 100% of their starches into soluble sugars. They are just not well suited in large amounts to beer styles that are typically dry.

As for the hops, you can use whatever variety you like, but stick to 1 or 2 boil additions for bitterness. Within 10 minutes, ALL of the volatile aromatics will boil off from the hops, and after that it's just alpha acid utilization and isomerization. So in essence a complicated hop schedule is very wasteful. Whirlpooling/hopstanding gives a rounder hop character, and dry hopping will provide aromatics only. For instance, my last brew used a 1-3-4 hop schedule (1 oz boil, 3 oz hopstand, 4 oz dry hop).

My recommendation would be to experiment with SMaSH brewing (Single Malt and Single Hop) so you can pick up on the subtleties of the grains and hops. When in doubt, keep it simple.

Next brew will be SMaSH.

Beerlieve me, this all is taken to heart.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

My recommendation would be to experiment with SMaSH brewing (Single Malt and Single Hop) so you can pick up on the subtleties of the grains and hops. When in doubt, keep it simple.

THIS.

I regularly do SMaSH brews. Great way to learn ingredients.

 

[Spartan300man]

Next brew will be SMaSH.

Beerlieve me, this all is taken to heart.

There are a few documents that I have downloaded that give you a specific "flavor' of each type of hop. You need to check several of them because they can be somewhat contradictory. In general, my homebrewing friend likes IPAs that are more on the spicy/pine side, if he can get them he uses Nugget, Crystal, Cluster, Galena, Chinook, Olympic. Lately I like the IPAs with more of the citrus/floral flavor to them like Citra, Cascade, Centennial, Columbus, Amarillo because I have been experimenting with adding some orange zest.

 

[Redlantern]

That would be awesome.

I like earthy and spicy on the palate
On the nose, citrus first than floral.

Probably will work with palate preference on the SMaSH first, then start adding aroma

 

[Redlantern]

Generally speaking, if I were to chase the darker, earthy flavors in hops - or more to the point, a single hop in a pale ale that will evolve into an IPA , what would anyone pick?

What malt would I go with?

 

[Spartan300man]

Generally speaking, if I were to chase the darker, earthy flavors in hops - or more to the point, a single hop in a pale ale that will evolve into an IPA , what would anyone pick?

What malt would I go with?

You could look into Brewers gold, Bullion, Fuggle, Ringwood, Saaz, Willamette are the ones that come to the top when you search "earthy". However, you need to know which ones are actually used more for bittering and which are used more often for aroma and flavor hops.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

For SMaSH malt, my go-to is usually maris otter. For hops, try em all. My favs so far have probably been nelson and styrian goldings.

 

[slym2none]

Generally speaking, if I were to chase the darker, earthy flavors in hops - or more to the point, a single hop in a pale ale that will evolve into an IPA , what would anyone pick?

What malt would I go with?

Columbus or Chinook. If you are looking to highlight the hops, then go as light/pale as you can with the malt. 2-row is cheap and only requires a 60-minute (or less) boil. Pilsner is lighter, but is recommended to boil for 90 minutes.

 

[specharka]

Columbus or Chinook. If you are looking to highlight the hops, then go as light/pale as you can with the malt. 2-row is cheap and only requires a 60-minute (or less) boil. Pilsner is lighter, but is recommended to boil for 90 minutes.

Where did you pull this information from? I have never heard of a required minimum boil time. Unless you're referring to a particular style?

 

[slym2none]

I have seen it here, people saying Pilsner malt needs to be boiled for 90 minutes to drive off DMS.

Or I am bat**** insane. Either one is possible.

If I am wrong, I apologise in advance...

 

[m00ps]

I have seen it here, people saying Pilsner malt needs to be boiled for 90 minutes to drive off DMS.

Or I am bat**** insane. Either one is possible.

If I am wrong, I apologise in advance...

yeah thats the general agreement. But IME, and others around here, its a bit like the "you have to secondary a beer" adage. The malts we have access to today are usually better quality and dont have as much fo whatever the compound is that creates DMS.

I stopped doing a 90min boil after my 2ns pilsner-based recipe and Ive never encountered any DMS issues

 

[specharka]

I have seen it here, people saying Pilsner malt needs to be boiled for 90 minutes to drive off DMS.

Or I am bat**** insane. Either one is possible.

If I am wrong, I apologise in advance...

It's certainly possible but I've never heard that. I use Pils almost exclusively as a base malt and most of my boil times are 60 minutes or less so the wort doesn't get too dark.

 

[BigMack]

I have seen it here, people saying Pilsner malt needs to be boiled for 90 minutes to drive off DMS.

Or I am bat**** insane. Either one is possible.

If I am wrong, I apologise in advance...

yeah thats the general agreement. But IME, and others around here, its a bit like the "you have to secondary a beer" adage. The malts we have access to today are usually better quality and dont have as much fo whatever the compound is that creates DMS.

I stopped doing a 90min boil after my 2ns pilsner-based recipe and Ive never encountered any DMS issues

This was an interesting read on the subject. http://brulosophy.com/2015/09/14/boil-length-pt-2-pilsner-malt-exbeeriment-results/

 

[slym2none]

Another exBEERiment blowing pre-conceived notions out of the water.

Pardons for my post above. Seems I was totally in the wrong and won't spread mis-information again.

 

[hoosier2137]

Maris Otter and Amarillo is my favorite smash beer.