Going electric all-grain on the cheap...

[GrumpyOldGit]

I keep looking at all the posts about the benefits of all-grain, but I can't boil more than 3.5G and I don't want to boil outside (rules out a burner), I didn't win the powerball (rules out Blingmann tower or off the shelf electric system like the grainfather) and I don't have a 240v outlet free which makes an element capable of boiling 6G tricky (and involves DIY).

So I have a cunning plan - downsize.

I can boil 3G easily on the stove so let's downsize. If I make a mash tun (say convert a 5G Coleman/Igloo/Rubbermaid cooler) I can boil up to 3.5G to just under boiling in my current pot, so can even do multi-step.

If I mash and get say 3.5G of wort, what will I boil down to? 3G? If I ferment 3G should I be good for 2.5G at bottling time?

The upside for me?

• I can brew more often - instead of 5G every 4-5 weeks I can brew 2.5G every 2-3 weeks
• I can start playing with all-grain
• I can brew this with my current setup - all I need is the cooler and maybe buy a 3G carboy for a new secondary.

The downsides...

• Is a 5G cooler going to be too big (not enough grain bed depth for a proper mash)?
• Will I lose too much beer to trub and gubbins when I transfer to a secondary?
• Is it simple to convert recipes to a 3.5G boil/3G ferment/2.5G bottle (are these numbers even realistic)?
• My water is great - no chemicals - but very hard. Is this going to be a big issue with all-grain (I really don't want to read Palmer and Kaminski's 'Water' today)?
• What's the best way to convert a 6G boil/5G finish recipe to this setup?

So... Pros and Cons - any comments, suggestions, recommendations, warnings, or links to related threads I missed?

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

Have you checked Unibrau systems? http://brausupply.com/collections/b...120v-5-gallon-brew-boss-automated-brew-system

 

[monkeyman1000]

I was faced with a similar dilemma 3 years ago. I wanted to do all grain but lacked space and the stoves I used couldn't boil more than 3 gallons. What worked for me was going the BIAB route and going to 2.5 gallon recipes. You can make the voile bag yourself or Wilserbrewer makes good bags custom for your pot for not much money. Cheaper than making a mash tun. For a typical 1.05?? something beer I start with just under 5 gallons of water in a 6 gallon pot and mash in with the grains in the bag. The next problem was getting the 4 or so gallons of water to boil on the stove. I use this and it is awesome and not very expensive http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm. I use it with a 1500 watt element that plugs right into my 20A GFC circuit near the stove. I could use it by itself but with the stove I can get to mash temp then to boil much quicker and cut down on my brew day time. As far as water is concerned, I started with the water primer sticky in the Brew Science section using RO water from the machine at the store. Lots of videos on the web for BIAB if you go that route. Pretty simple way to do all grain. Good luck.

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

Have you checked Unibrau systems? http://brausupply.com/collections/b...120v-5-gallon-brew-boss-automated-brew-system

I have checked them out a few times, but way more coin than I've got to hand

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

...What worked for me was going the BIAB route and going to 2.5 gallon recipes. ... I use this and it is awesome and not very expensive http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm.

I've considered BIAB and may well come back to it. However, I have a 5G Coleman insulated cooler to hand and really fancy trying multistep so for a few bucks I should be able to convert it. If I bomb out I may come back to BIAB.

The hotrod... that could be useful. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[interior_mike]

something else to think about is you can run through the boil at a higher sugar/hop content then dilute with water in the fermentor to get back to a 5 gallon batch. You'll have to play with the numbers. But anyways to answer some of your questions to scale recipes is simply a fraction. to do a 3 gallon from a 5 gallon recipe multiple the recipe by 3/5...2.5 gallon recipe would be 2.5/5 (or 1/2)

 

[RM-MN]

I've considered BIAB and may well come back to it. However, I have a 5G Coleman insulated cooler to hand and really fancy trying multistep so for a few bucks I should be able to convert it. If I bomb out I may come back to BIAB.

The hotrod... that could be useful. Thanks for the heads-up.

Do BIAB in the cooler if you want to get started right away without the time and money investment in converting it.
or
Get a 110V heat stick and do your 5 gallon brews on the stovetop with the heat stick to help with the boil.
or
Do a 2 1/2 gallon BIAB batch in the pot you have on the stovetop. If you decide you don't like it you don't have much money sunk into it and can convert the cooler if you want. You can do a multistep with the BIAB but most people don't bother as with our modern malts there isn't a huge gain by doing so. You can do direct heat for the multistep if you stir like mad and perhaps have something in the bottom of the pot to keep the bag from scorching or an infusion or a decoction. Lots of options on that. I would suggest you spend a little money on a mill so you have control of the milling. Make the grains fine for BIAB and expect 75 to 80% efficiency and adapt the recipe to that so you don't have so much grain to deal with.

 

[Jim311]

I actually did a 5 gallon all grain batch in a 5 gallon cooler once. I used like 3 gallons of mash water and the rest was taken up by 7ish pounds of grain. I just barely had room and it wasn't a high gravity batch at all. So I think you could brew half sized batches in a 5 gallon cooler as long as you don't brew big high gravity beers. Another alternative is to buy 5 gallon kits and split them exactly in half. I'd think that'd be a pretty easy to way to go all grain on a budget and boil indoors. Plenty of small batch guys are out there for one reason or another.

 

[Kampenken]

Do BIAB in the cooler if you want to get started right away without the time and money investment in converting it.
...

There's your best advice. Money is a concern, that is the best solution, not even spending the $10-$20 to convert the cooler. Best solution. Oh, and btw, water adjustments aren't difficult or expensive, and worth it!

 

[flhb]

Do BIAB in the cooler if you want to get started right away without the time and money investment in converting it.

This is what I do. 10G beverage cooler and boil on my stove.

 

[Calder]

I use a 5 gallon Coleman cooler to mash and sparge 8 lbs of grain, and boil 3.5 to 4 gallons on the stove, and dilute after putting into fermenter. I get 80%+ efficiency, so with 8 lbs of grain can get close to a 1.050 x 5 gallon batch. If I want a higher gravity I add extract (or sugar depending on the recipe) at flame out.

I think I use 9.5 quarts water with 8 lbs of grain, and sparge twice with 2x4.5 quarts and get about 15 quarts of wort in the kettle.

I've done 9 and 10 lb mashes, but my water is restricted to the amount I can boil on my stove, and have found my efficiency goes down such that the extra lb(s) adds only a little more to the gravity, and is almost not worth it in my current set-up. 8 lbs seems to be optimum.

Hope this helps.

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

What worked for me was going the BIAB route and going to 2.5 gallon recipes.

Do BIAB in the cooler if you want to get started right away without the time and money investment in converting it.
You can do a multistep with the BIAB but most people don't bother as with our modern malts there isn't a huge gain by doing so.

Thanks, guys - I think I'm going down this route... cheapass bag in a cheapass cooler and start with 3G boils for 2.5G fermentation. Once I get my act together I might see if I can get the hotrod and move to a slightly larger boil (at least for lower OG beers given Jim's feedback).

I just barely had room...

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

something else to think about is you can run through the boil at a higher sugar/hop content then dilute with water in the fermentor to get back to a 5 gallon batch.

I've read (maybe Palmer or BYO Wizard) that increased malt concentration can affect the hop utilization - do you know how much extra hop you'd need for a 3G high-OG wort being diluted t0 5G?

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

I use a 5 gallon Coleman cooler to mash and sparge 8 lbs of grain, and boil 3.5 to 4 gallons on the stove, and dilute after putting into fermenter.

Good to know I can do this as most of the recipes I've seen that I want to try seem to be 7-8lb for 5G and as I'll be limited to a 3G boil (for now) this should be simple enouigh to practice with (and making 2.5G at a time I'm going to get to play twice as often ).

The did see a Barleywine with an 18lb bill (John Palmer) so that might need to wait until I know what I can fit in the cooler.

 

[RM-MN]

Good to know I can do this as most of the recipes I've seen that I want to try seem to be 7-8lb for 5G and as I'll be limited to a 3G boil (for now) this should be simple enouigh to practice with (and making 2.5G at a time I'm going to get to play twice as often ).

The did see a Barleywine with an 18lb bill (John Palmer) so that might need to wait until I know what I can fit in the cooler.

John Palmer didn't use a bag in his cooler so he couldn't mill his grain as fine so he used lots of grain to make up for the crappy efficiency that he got. If you mill the grains fine you can cut way back on the amount of grain you use.

Anecdote: Last month I made a 2 1/2 gallon batch of Yooper's Oatmeal Stout with only 5.5 pounds of grain. The OG was predicted to be 1.059 and I hit pretty close to that...except I got closer to 3 gallons of wort. That should have pushed my efficiency near 90%. You can expect over 80% if you get the grains milled fine.

 

[PearlJam]

I am using a $62 water urn (9G) to boil everything that needs to be boiled.

It does have a thermometer which helps to maintain the boil or water temp if you are getting ready for mashing

 

[alexacuna]

I used BIAB in cooler too. Drinking a batch of Vienna / Citra smash right now that is unreal.